Apple7
New member
Now that looks like a scholarly website...Not!
Hand-select their very 'best' argument and defend it....so that we know that you did something more than mindlessly take the first googled result, and post it...:cigar:
Why would God need a hell?
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Now that looks like a scholarly website...Not!
Hand-select their very 'best' argument and defend it....so that we know that you did something more than mindlessly take the first googled result, and post it...:cigar:
Mickiel
New member
I am posting scriptures, I have posted over 117 of them, and have many more to get to. You are posting insults, I am not counting them. I hold interest in the word of God. Because I like his word.
Apple7
New member
You post one verse, and then you run to another, without defending the first.
Its like you know that you are on borrowed time before you ban yourself...
Mickiel
New member
Here's another one; Psalms 67:2, " That thy way may be known upon earth, thy " Saving Health" among ALL nations!"
I like that about God, his salvation is healthy; the Christian hell is not.
Apple7
New member
And...?
What exactly would you be defending in this out-of-context one hit wonder, if you were to do so (not that you can, that is)...?
Mickiel
New member
I am happy you are asking questions, instead of using your usual scarcasm; good.
The verse continues in the vain of using the term " ALL" when speaking on salvation terms, it calls God's saving Healthy, meaning good for all. And that is a tenant of the true gospel, it will be a good word, healthy for all. No condemnation, no pain and suffering, just good news.
Greg Jennings
New member
If I'm the Arab ignorant one, why can't you back up any of your Arabic translations? :think:
Everybody sees you for the liar you are. I hope you had fun spreading these garbage translations of yours, because I'll be here to call you on your dishonesty for a good while
Now for yet another time:
Can you find me one - just one - professor, theologian, religious scholar, or expert in Arabic languages that agrees with your translations about Allah being "lord of the Jinn" and so on?
Mickiel
New member
While we are in Psalms 67, look at verse 7, the destiny of man; " God SHALL bless US; and all the ends of the earth shall fear him." God is going to bless everyone on earth, not just believers. And the whole earth will fear him, especially after he uses the force revealed in the book of Revelations.
Lon
Well-known member
As with the supposed 115 verses you posted, you missed my point as well. If you can't even understand me, there is little hope you have the mental fortitude to teach me or another anything. You got, what? C+ in English/Language Arts? :think:
:nono: Of course you don't walk alone. You are a dime-a-dozen. There are a few others here before you ever arrived with wild imaginations and no substantiation. Tons of you. I just can't figure out why you all like negative attention and have to have it. If you like ridicule, I guess you can have it. It always amazes me that atheists, agnostics, weirdos, and other cults will come here and then cry that the 'Christians' aren't nice to them, kind of like a thief would be shocked that those he is robbing don't like him :think:
Sure, if you throw out the scriptures you don't like, which you do. Not impressed. Not even a little.
Mickiel
New member
Why you have misjudged me, I hold no interest in teaching, only witnessing. I hold no interest in impressing you, nor responding to your petty insults. My interest is in the total rehabilitation of mankind. That he would " Turn us" toward truth, all of us. In Ps. 85:4, " Turn us oh God of our salvation."
Salvation is a turning.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
No problem with the 'opening' to the Koran..............
No problem with the 'opening' to the Koran..............
Regarding Holy Quran, Al-Fatihah 1.2 -
I see no problem here apart from what you're reading into the text, by your own theological bias and antagonism towards Islam. Out of 18 translations given on this site here, there is only one that renders a translation similar to yours which includes in parenthesis about 'mankind, 'jinn' and all that exists. - this is merely a paraphrased descriptive ADDED to the verse.
Note that this site says of this particular source -
** - Read with caution - These Translations, specially those which are marked here with **, are considered either incorrect, far-fetched, non-conforming or misleading. For all translations, care must be exercised for certain verses or an alternate translation should be considered.
All other standard translations render Allah as the Lord (or Sustainer/Provider) of worlds, the universe, all being, all creation, etc. - there is no specific indication of the word 'jinn' in this passage, other than the 'assumption' that Allah ('God') would naturally as Lord of all, be the Lord of all beings,...this includes jinn, angels, demons, elves, fairies, pixies, gnomes, elementals, - ALL BEINGS. (paraphrasing here for emphasis). 'God' is the original Creator and Lord of all that exists. Clear?
There is absolutely NOTHING in this passage that demeans, devalues or discounts 'Allah' or associates 'Allah' as 'Satan',.....nothing but what you're reading into the passage which is not the accurate, traditional or orthodox reading of it.
Concerning 'Alamin' (plural of alam) - this refers to not only animate beings but all creation, all animate and inanimate, so naturally includes man, angels, jinn, heavenly bodies, sun, moon, stars, etc.
See commentary here
No problems here. :idunno:
No problem with the 'opening' to the Koran..............
Regarding Holy Quran, Al-Fatihah 1.2 -
I see no problem here apart from what you're reading into the text, by your own theological bias and antagonism towards Islam. Out of 18 translations given on this site here, there is only one that renders a translation similar to yours which includes in parenthesis about 'mankind, 'jinn' and all that exists. - this is merely a paraphrased descriptive ADDED to the verse.
Note that this site says of this particular source -
** - Read with caution - These Translations, specially those which are marked here with **, are considered either incorrect, far-fetched, non-conforming or misleading. For all translations, care must be exercised for certain verses or an alternate translation should be considered.
All other standard translations render Allah as the Lord (or Sustainer/Provider) of worlds, the universe, all being, all creation, etc. - there is no specific indication of the word 'jinn' in this passage, other than the 'assumption' that Allah ('God') would naturally as Lord of all, be the Lord of all beings,...this includes jinn, angels, demons, elves, fairies, pixies, gnomes, elementals, - ALL BEINGS. (paraphrasing here for emphasis). 'God' is the original Creator and Lord of all that exists. Clear?
There is absolutely NOTHING in this passage that demeans, devalues or discounts 'Allah' or associates 'Allah' as 'Satan',.....nothing but what you're reading into the passage which is not the accurate, traditional or orthodox reading of it.
Concerning 'Alamin' (plural of alam) - this refers to not only animate beings but all creation, all animate and inanimate, so naturally includes man, angels, jinn, heavenly bodies, sun, moon, stars, etc.
See commentary here
No problems here. :idunno:
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Lon
Well-known member
Well, two things: one, you responded ( :doh: ) and two, I'm not certain I've been petty or insulted you.
:sigh: First of all, you came to TOL to fight. You knew, like all other websites you've been on, how this ends. Next:
▲Show me▲ Where is either 'petty' or 'insult' or according to accusation, a combination of "petty insult/accusation?"
:nono: You are interested in negative attention. I don't think Universal Salvation needs heralding. There isn't much point.
As if you are the appointed herald. Let's look again:
:nono: Not finding this to be true.
:nono: You proudly tauted "115 verses, rejected and corrected others. and came to a website knowing well ahead of time that it was going to be an argument. This (among a good many others):
Doesn't mean 'universal' btw. That's why I inquired after your Language Arts grades...
You counted your verses, over 115 of them, right? Who were you trying to impress? Yourself? God?
Lon
Well-known member
Preface that with "If God were ME..." and you'd have that right. You are assuming God 'is like you.' He isn't like you OR me. If God must bow to either you or me, He isn't God. If God must fulfill our every expectation, He isn't God. God, being God cannot bow to the whims and desires of man, no matter how noble you think you are and thus by association, He must be.
I empathize the tiniest little bit with you in that I had to wrestle a little, with this too, but I didn't wrestle very long. Jacob wrestled with God and had his hip knocked out of joint. Job wrestled with God and lost his health and family. You are probably going to have to have some major damage for wrestling this hard against God. I pray you are worth the hip, because if you don't have a broken hip, it is because you were wrestling with a being of your imagination rather than the God of the universe who is, and that ain't good. I pray you are genuinely wrestling with God, but that also means I'm praying for your out of socket hip too.
we need hell for evil
Zeke
Well-known member
What do you think the body is for? Romans seven explains the sin that is within us concept, Romans 7:24. Heaven and hell in you.
Mickiel
New member
God's spirit world has existed for all of eternity without evil before he created the earth, what makes you think he will allow it to exist for the rest of eternity?
Prizebeatz1
New member
:listen: I think that was indigestion (2 Pe 2:1).Get yourself a Saviour (Jn 3:16)--and a Pepto Bismol. :idunno:
Oh I'm sorry. It's easy to confuse the infinite worth of the soul with indigestion.
Apple7
New member
Psalm 67 is short enough in length to quote it in its entirety. Little wonder that you didn't want to do this...
To the chief musician, for stringed instruments. A Psalm. A song. May God be merciful to us and bless us, and cause His face to shine upon us. Selah. That Your way may be known on earth, Your salvation among all nations. Let the peoples thank You, O God; let all the peoples thank You. Oh let the peoples be glad and sing for joy; for You shall judge the peoples uprightly and govern the peoples on earth. Selah. Let the peoples give thanks to You, O God; let all the peoples give thanks to You. The earth has given its increase; God, our own God, shall bless us. God shall bless us; and all the ends of the earth shall fear Him. (Psalm 67.1 – 7)
Oooops...
Looks like you forgot to mention a Judgment...of which, would hardly be necessary if everyone was 'saved' as you would like it to be...:cigar:
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