Why would God need a hell?

[Mickiel]

Unbelievers are lost spiritually, why would a God herd them into some sadistic hell? For what? Humans are not dumb cattle; life is precious. As intelligent as God is, don't you think he could figure out a way to save all his children? Why would God base salvation on free will, if free will would give millions of humans a stupid way of canceling out their salvation? Free will would keep them lost and in darkness.

In Luke 19:10, " For the Son of man is come to seek and save that which is lost." Seeking means Jesus has gone after them, he persued a way to get them inside of salvation. And when he said, " It is finished", he did not mean his own life was finished, he meant the way he seeked salvation for lost humanity was finished; finalized. In Luke 9:56, Jesus said he is NOT come to destroy men's lives, not give them eternal death, but to SAVE them!

Its all about salvation, and that mostly for the lost.

 

[Mickiel]

Again and again the bible keeps pushing an all inclusive salvation agenda, leaving no room for limited salvation or eternal hell. Luke 2:30-31, "For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, which thou has PREPARED before the face of ALL people!" Salvation was prepared for ALL people, this is what Jesus went after and died for. And this is the message satan hates and has enlisted believers in God to help him pervert.

 

[Nick M]

Unbelievers are lost spiritually, why would a God herd them into some sadistic hell?

It is what they want. Some don't want it, but they sure deserve it.

 

[Zeke]

Read your bible instead of Google fishing :dizzy: Googling nor imaginings are sagacious. Opposite, in fact. Both of you stop this nonsense and read your bible!

Who cares what you think? Are you God? Am I? No? Doesn't matter what 'we' think then, does it? Are you editing God, or reading God? (Editing, try reading instead).

All the new-age wacko's have flocked to this thread with grandiose opinion and self-inflation. I will repeat, read your bibles. It only matters what God thinks and what is. The rest (much "I" "me" "you" opinion of this thread) are meaningless platitudes by kindergarteners.

Why Lon that's a excellent suggestion, and I have and do read it in the light of 2Cor 3:6, The other suggestion on thinking, I can't think of a response. I really like the hints/crumbs the Bible has dropped from the Masters Table about how it should be interpreted, Luke 17:20-21, Galatians 4:24-28, Matt 11:11, Genesis 32:30, Old Age secrets on how to reach the New Age.

 

[Mickiel]

The biblical message is all inclusive, there is no such thing as a Christian club in heaven. When John was sent by God, he was sent to be a witness to ALL men, that ALL men would become believers, John 1:7. To help ALL men see the truth, vs. 9- for EVERY man! The bible is pounding this all inclusive message through and through. In Matt. 1:21 the angel said that Jesus would save his people from their sins. The plan of God basically is about saving us all from sin and freely giving us an eternal inheritance of living with God forever. Its a beautiful plan that has a place for us all.

 

[Mickiel]

It is what they want. Some don't want it, but they sure deserve it.

If you learn anything from God, try to learn forgiveness, mercy, grace and Love. When humans foolishly choose death or unbelief, they are the one's who need these traits the most, we cannot become callus toward the salvation of sinners.

 

[daqq]

It is off topic but is it a will 'constrained' by the content of this thread, and slightly 'more' free in being an off-thread-topic. So while we might be (off-topic) talking about the same thing, 'free' isn't my preference and I believe there is orchestration and a Conductor, as well as score. Off-notes? Yeah, but those free expressions are 'against' the written so aren't contributing but rather opposite. Long discussion, back to the thread.

This thread has already been answered just as well as in the other large ECT thread where Mark 9:43-48 was shown to be quoting from Isaiah 66:19-24 and much expounded with other critical portions of the Testimony of Yeshua. Once the truth has been stated from the scripture and people reject it there is no "alternative truth" that can be offered. You either believe it or your do not, the choice is yours, so be sure you make your election sure, (2 Peter 1:10). :crackup:

 

[way 2 go]

If you learn anything from God, try to learn forgiveness, mercy, grace and Love. When humans foolishly choose death or unbelief, they are the one's who need these traits the most, we cannot become callus toward the salvation of sinners.

can you spot the lie here ?
Gen 3:4 But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die.
Gen 3:5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

mixing lies with truth is evil
Rom 12:9 Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good

 

[Nick M]

Does God need a garbage dump for humans?

Where else is he going to put the liberals?

 

[freelight]

Consider what Love's will is............

Consider what Love's will is............

It is what they want. Some don't want it, but they sure deserve it.

In actuality, only 'God' has knowledge of what is truly 'deserved' without human assumptions and bias distorting such judgments, since 'God' is the essence of pure love and wisdom, who administers his determinations in a perfectly 'just' and 'merciful' fashion.

What a man sows, that also shall he reap, such is the universal law of karma (action/consequence), so this law works on its own inherent principle wherever action of any kind takes place. With all karmic inter-actions the law is perfectly fair and just, measure for measure. However, thru-out all these movements, Love and Wisdom are ever guiding the soul towards progress, learning, evolution, enlightenment, for such is the will of Life. Since the divine Will motivated by Love is for the life-enhancement and well-being of souls, its desire is always towards survival, salvation, eternal progression.

'Hell' however one defines that, is any state of suffering which if used properly is corrective in nature, a learning process, a purgatory of sorts, since Love disciplines its beloved, naturally...since love's will is always restorative. Therefore a concept of 'eternal hellfire or punishment' is foreign to love and illogical to wisdom, since love's desire is always salvation, never eternal doom, harm or damnation. Upon principle alone ECT is illogical, insane and contrary to the divine will.

 

[way 2 go]

You are exactly right. This is one of the biggest sacred cows in Christianity though, so krischuns struggle to justify it. Even for Hitler or (insert evil guy's name here) _____ people know it would be unjust to torment them forever. It does not pass the straight face test.

The wages of sin is death. The punishment is eternal, but it is not eternal torture. Even in the case of Hitler that would make god a monster. It is the destruction of the soul that people should fear, as we see Jesus warning about in Mat10:28 NASB .Your soul is destroyed, you cease to exist for eternity, and after you have met God Himself, and realize what you have missed out on, it will be a very sorrowful and obviously "eternal" punishment.

so being punished when you don't exist passes the "straight face test"

there are 2 kinds of death

the destruction of the body
and
spiritual separation from God

 

[Mickiel]

Again the future of all humanity is to serve God. Romans 14:11, " For it is written, as I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me and every tongue shall confess to God!" This is predestiny, the salvation of all is predestination, nothing can stop it. Its uncanny that some believers in God are fighting this, but they cannot stop the predestined will of God.

 

[Lon]

This thread has already been answered just as well as in the other large ECT thread where Mark 9:43-48 was shown to be quoting from Isaiah 66:19-24 and much expounded with other critical portions of the Testimony of Yeshua. Once the truth has been stated from the scripture and people reject it there is no "alternative truth" that can be offered. You either believe it or your do not, the choice is yours, so be sure you make your election sure, (2 Peter 1:10). :crackup:

I wouldn't 'have' to according to the Universalist, and there isn't a point to this thread, if such were true (it isn't as far as I read Scripture but no universalist ever asks and glosses).

It most often reads "I wish I wish I wish I wish with all my might!" There is not scripture against scripture or scripture without other scripture, for you or for me. I'm never sure if you folks are ever aware of the other passages of scripture when you run past the other trees to the cherry-picking. The 'invented' nonsense leaves a LOT suspect in your bible educations (lacking). -Lon

 

[Mickiel]

In Rom. 11:26, " All Israel shall be saved." Don't you think for a minute that all Israel are holy people, they are not; they are just as sinful as you and I and some of them unbelievers. But the biblical point here is the salvation of ALL of them; its a GIVEN! God gives salvation to whole nations!

 

[Mickiel]

It is the predetermined destiny of all unbelievers to eventually see and understand the truth. In Romans 15:21, " But as it is written, to whom he was not spoken of, they shall see, and they that have not heard shall understand." God wants ALL to come to the knowledge of the truth, 1 Tim. 2:4.

 

[daqq]

I wouldn't 'have' to according to the Universalist, and there isn't a point to this thread, if such were true (it isn't as far as I read Scripture but no universalist ever asks and glosses).

It most often reads "I wish I wish I wish I wish with all my might!" There is not scripture against scripture or scripture without other scripture, for you or for me. I'm never sure if you folks are ever aware of the other passages of scripture when you run past the other trees to the cherry-picking. The 'invented' nonsense leaves a LOT suspect in your bible educations (lacking). -Lon

Sorry Lon, but when the Master quotes from a passage in Tanach it is not "cherry picking" just because "you wish, you wish, you wish", or just because you say so:

Mark 9:42-48 KJV
42. And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
43. And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44. Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46. Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48. Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Isaiah 66:19-24 KJV
19. And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.
20. And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the Lord out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the Lord, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the Lord.
21. And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the Lord.
22. For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
24. And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

These are symbolic things of a prophetic nature wrapped in poetic language. I have highlighted in blue background only one portion from the top simply because the "little ones" have already been addressed in this thread. That is your clue. So either get a new brain or turn on the one you have that is currently sitting idle.

 

[Mickiel]

The bible always speaks in terms of everyone, because salvation is all inclusive and the mind of God is pregnant with having billions of children. 1 Corinth. 4:5, " therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who will bring to light the hidden things of darkness and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts, and THEN, ( not now, when he returns he will open the minds of humanity), shall EVERY man have praise of God."

Every knee will bow, all humans will confess Christ, and EVERY human will worship God! This is our destiny; not death, not hell.

 

[Mickiel]

Lets look at Rev.20:15, "And whoever was not found in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Often this is used to support limited salvation, but if you look at Eph. 3:15, " Of whom the WHOLE family in heaven and earth is NAMED!" By Christ, all human names are recorded, and this is great hope for all of humanity. The hope of salvation for all is still there!

 

[serpentdove]

[Men were made to live forever somewhere. Where that is is there choice. Mt 12:32] "Provided they choose salvation."

Men were made to live forever somewhere. They will receive a body fit for heaven or a body fit for hell (Matt. 5:29, 30).

Hell is: everlasting fire (Matt. 25:41), everlasting punishment (Matt. 25:46) and everlasting destruction (2 Thess. 1:9). Thomas Nelson Publishers. (1996). Nelson’s quick reference topical Bible index (p. 283). Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers.

 

[Mickiel]

In Rev. 7:9 John saw a world of humans representing every nation on earth, he said no one could number them they were so many; all saved and standing before the throne of God. This is good news for humanity, all of us can make it.