Why would God need a hell?

[Lon]

If you think its nonsense, why are you reading it?

To point to God, and you are not Him.

Again, the hope for all, Isaiah 40:5, " The glory of the Lord shall be revealed and ALL Flesh shall see it; the mouth of the Lord has spoken it." Praise God, this is the pre destiny of all humans, to actually see God in his glory. Now no flesh can see God and live, so this means God is going to transform ALL humans so we can see him. This is again good news for unbelievers.

Ignorance is as ignorance does. I 'just' told you to stop google fishing and read the bible. If it were me, I'd have grabbed my concordance long ago, prayed, then would have begun reading passages about hell and asking God why He put them there. You? :nono: :sigh:

 

[jamie]

God is going to resurrect billions of persons back to life, John 5:28,29, Acts 24:15, but if they do not want to obey, and live peacefully with others, then they will go into The Lake of Fire. There is NO punishment or torment of any kind in The Lake of Fire. The person, or anything else thrown into the Lake of Fire will be OUT of existence, forever!!!

Excellent post. :thumb:

 

[Mickiel]

Let me give another description of God, which matches how the true gospel should sound; James 3:17, "But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy." All the things that the Christian hell is not full of. This is describing God and it describes the gospel message to this world.

 

[Lon]

Let me...how the true gospel should sound...

"I me mine" for you. For me:

You...your bible...you-asserting yourself... if...me- bible I'd- read ...God's thoughts...what I did).

You? :nono:

...bother me ...rather than God. you-against-Scriptures and ...church...interested in themselves...false priests between God and man.

You are cutting your bible in half by (wrong) assumption. There are huge chunks of scripture that no longer make sense/are denied after an all-too-human fashion. Again, you are asserting yourself against the reading of the Bible. Again, if it were me, I'd have long ago grabbed a concordance and have read my bible for weeks and months. I'd have ensured that I had read it cover to cover. But again, this is a man more interested in God's thoughts than his own (and so it is what I did).

You? :nono:

Cultists bother me with their attention on themselves rather than God. You are all easy to spot because you are against the Scriptures and thus against the church as well so it is a quick read of this thread to see who is who.

Cultists are ONLY interested in themselves and spouting their euphoric gems of idolization: Some in ignorance, most in pride and arrogance and self-imported false-priests between God and man.

 

[Zeke]

Full post with hacked up statements in quote once again:
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4563358&postcount=155

So you think doing what you do to the words of those you disagree with is the will of the Father and how you show His love through your own actions? Your full statement is quoted above; the same can be done with your statement, but how is it a fair treatment of your own words?


▲direct quote▲

Wow, thanks for finally speaking some truth Lon!

Yeshua Says: Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete out, it shall be measured to you again. And why behold you the speck that is in the eye of your brother, but consider not the beam that is in your own eye? Or how will you say to your brother, Let me pull out the speck out of your eye; and, behold, a beam is in your own eye! You hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of your own eye; and then shall you see clearly to cast out the speck out of the eye of your brother. Therefore all things whatsoever you would that men should do to you, do you likewise even so to them: for this is the Torah and the Prophets. (Matthew 7:1-5, 12).

I think Lon needs to take the Psychopath test, He is definitely showing symptoms of being one.

 

[Lon]

Worth a repeat for those not cutting up their Bibles, willing to listen to it:

First of all, it doesn't matter what "I" want or what "you" want. It matters what is true. Rewriting scripture, faith, God, et al is a maneuver in foolishness of becoming your own god. You either take God as He describes Himself, or you worship yourself. You reject the dichotomy but that is because to you,God is you. It leaves you stuck in your world of sin, loving it with a god of your imaginings. That, my friend, is hell, and no, love cannot reach it, ever, forever. Eternal isn't just enduring days, it is an unaltered unalterable state. Hell is getting exactly what your finite mind imagines and demands, forever, because it is a rejection of the God who is, with no desire to see or know Him on His own terms.
Luke 16:19-31 does not balk, even a little:

Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
Luk 16:24 And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.'
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish.
Luk 16:26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.'
Luk 16:27 And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house—
Luk 16:28 for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.'

[Are] You are like one of the five brothers, needing warning[?] Look next:

Luk 16:29 But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.'
Luk 16:30 And he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
Luk 16:31 He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'"

They "couldn't" hear. They "couldn't" be reached.
You...and the other... brothers don't appreciate the authority of Moses and the Prophets that Jesus here attests to them and will not be convinced, exactly as Abraham told Lazarus, even if one should rise from the dead.

 

[bsmitts]

Exactly right!
Merry Christmas Chrysostom.
If the doctrine of eternal torture is correct then either God wants to torture people alive for all eternity (and if so, such a "god" is unworthy of worship) or He is unable to prevent someone from torturing you for all eternity, which would mean that he isn't God.

You said it better than I did. Either option is unbelievable.
The truth is far better than eternal torture. God gives us the free gift of eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord! Merry Christmas! "Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of great joy which will be for all the people; for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.…"
Gloria in Excelsis!

God is not unmerciful nor is he unrighteous. Rev 21:5-8 "And he (Jesus) that sat on the throne said 'behold, I make all things new.' "And he said unto me," 'write: for these words are true and faithful.' "And he said unto me," 'It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcomes shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: Which is the second death. 1 Corinthians 2:14 Romans 3:11; John 6:44; John 6:37; Romans 3:22-23; Romans 3:24; Ephesians 2:8-9

 

[Lon]

Full post with hacked up statements in quote once again:
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4563358&postcount=155

So you think doing what you do to the words of those you disagree with is the will of the Father and how you show His love through your own actions? Your full statement is quoted above; the same can be done with your statement, but how is it a fair treatment of your own words?


▲direct quote▲

Wow, thanks for finally speaking some truth Lon!

Not a problem. Anyone can see your ellipses are the edit. All I did was placed all the "I's" "me's" and "you's" together to show you weren't interested in God. You? :think: You seem to have tried to make it say something it does not. Intent is everything, I'm not going to call you a 'liar' and for reasons I'll quickly spell out...

Yeshua Says: Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete out, it shall be measured to you again. And why behold you the speck that is in the eye of your brother, but consider not the beam that is in your own eye? Or how will you say to your brother, Let me pull out the speck out of your eye; and, behold, a beam is in your own eye! You hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of your own eye; and then shall you see clearly to cast out the speck out of the eye of your brother. Therefore all things whatsoever you would that men should do to you, do you likewise even so to them: for this is the Torah and the Prophets. (Matthew 7:1-5, 12).

Brilliant. Physician heal thyself. Mine was done similarly to show you a preoccupation with self in your post. Yours was likely done to simply illustrate your hang-up rather than to cast dispersions on my post. I could have called you a 'liar' like you did me, but I wasn't 'obtuse' or 'inept.'

It is too bad you won't see me actually embracing your rewrite, not for accuracy, but for the actual point made, until I just now said it.

Let me make sure you get that: You didn't 'lie' when reworking my post, but were trying rather to make a point.

AND, you were 'inept' in recognizing I did exactly the same thing! Congratulations, you 'might' be up to speed.

 

[daqq]

I think Lon needs to take the Psychopath test, He is definitely showing symptoms of being one.

Hmmm, dunno, but in his avatar his eyes do always appear glazed over as if he is in happy, happy, joy, joy, cartoon land. I think he has me on "selective ignore" meaning that he decides which posts he wills or chooses to respond to. Can the psychopath elect whomever he will select to hear his magnificent words of rebuttal and retribution?

 

[Lon]

I think Lon needs to take the Psychopath test, He is definitely showing symptoms of being one.

Which icon, which icon.... :think:

...naw, I got your train of thought...

lain: ... closer, it was inane and hardly worth your time

:angrymob::help::juggle::spam:K::mrt::hammer: :ha: :dead::down::dunce::baby::loser::comeout::madmad: :sherlock: :granite::idunno::Servent::sibbie::CRASH::flamer: :nananana: :maxi::troll::freak::mock:
... none really capture the response I'm looking for


except perhaps this one: oly: My original comment was to be more interested in what God says and that still stands. One of my favorite sayings of John W is "Read the book." oly:

 

[daqq]

Not a problem. Anyone can see your ellipses are the edit. All I did was placed all the "I's" "me's" and "you's" together to show you weren't interested in God. You? :think: You seem to have tried to make it say something it does not. Intent is everything, I'm not going to call you a 'liar' and for reasons I'll quickly spell out...


Brilliant. Physician heal thyself. Mine was done similarly to show you a preoccupation with self in your post. Yours was likely done to simply illustrate your hang-up rather than to cast dispersions on my post. I could have called you a 'liar' like you did me, but I wasn't 'obtuse' or 'inept.'

It is too bad you won't see me actually embracing your rewrite, not for accuracy, but for the actual point made, until I just now said it.

Let me make sure you get that: You didn't 'lie' when reworking my post, but were trying rather to make a point.

AND, you were 'inept' in recognizing I did exactly the same thing! Congratulations, you 'might' be up to speed.

You must have posted that while I was writing my last post.
Nice to see you exercising your freewill.

 

[Lon]

Hmmm, dunno, but in his avatar his eyes do always appear glazed over as if he is in happy, happy, joy, joy, cartoon land. I think he has me on "selective ignore" meaning that he decides which posts he wills or chooses to respond to. Can the psychopath elect whomever he will select to hear his magnificent words of rebuttal and retribution?

I can take that as a benefit of doubt, up to a point with some appreciation expressed.

... none really capture the response I'm looking for


except perhaps this one: oly: My original comment was to be more interested in what God says and that still stands. One of my favorite sayings of John W is "Read the book." oly:

 

[Lon]

You must have posted that while I was writing my last post.
Nice to see you exercising your freewill.

It is off topic but is it a will 'constrained' by the content of this thread, and slightly 'more' free in being an off-thread-topic. So while we might be (off-topic) talking about the same thing, 'free' isn't my preference and I believe there is orchestration and a Conductor, as well as score. Off-notes? Yeah, but those free expressions are 'against' the written so aren't contributing but rather opposite. Long discussion, back to the thread.

 

[Mickiel]

In 1 John 2:1, " My little children, these things I write to you that you sin not, but if you do sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." We have a safety value that keeps us from condemnation. Christianity thinks this protection is only for them, as they hoard salvation unto themselves. They think they wrote the bible, and it was written only for them. Out of the 66 books in the bible, only 20 or so could be even said to be written by Christians of that time, and all the books were for mankind, not just Christians. But we live in an age where salvation itself is being affected by the greed of believers; unwilling to share salvation to those who do not believe.

 

[Mickiel]

There are times that God will seek after people who don't even seek him; this is good news for unbelievers. Isaiah 65:1, " I am sought of them that asked not for me: I am found by them that seek me not. I said look at me, a nation that was not called by me." God will call whole nations that ignore him, because he loves them. Read the whole 65th chapter and see how God called nations that continually provoked him to his face; that is why he called Israel, not because they were obedient, but because they were disobedient, to show the world that salvation will come to disobedient people; he will forgive.

What a wonderful message.

 

[Mickiel]

Why would God need a hell? Is it not bad enough to live all your life in a type of hell, then die and go to a worse hell?

What kind of sense does that make in a reality designed by a God?

 

[Zeke]

Hmmm, dunno, but in his avatar his eyes do always appear glazed over as if he is in happy, happy, joy, joy, cartoon land. I think he has me on "selective ignore" meaning that he decides which posts he wills or chooses to respond to. Can the psychopath elect whomever he will select to hear his magnificent words of rebuttal and retribution?

It's also disturbing that thinking is outlawed now in Lon's mind, just read the Bible but don't think about it outside the traditional box because ''REAL" Christians are all historically invested in that version being the correct way to read the Bible.

 

[Mickiel]

In John 17:2 God gives Jesus ALL flesh, we all belong to him. This is how Christ is all in all. In Matt. 1:21 it states that Jesus shall save his people from their sins, again canceling out a need for the Christian hell. But the doctrine of hell is like a consuming fire, it has enveloped the consciousness of humanity, which is just one of the ways in which satan has deceived the whole world, Rev. 12:9. This hell distortion has invaded the earth, the bible, and our children.

 

[freelight]

Yes, I reject your concept of 'hell' and 'terms' of punishment.....

Yes, I reject your concept of 'hell' and 'terms' of punishment.....

First of all, it doesn't matter what "I" want or what "you" want. It matters what is true. Rewriting scripture, faith, God, et al is a maneuver in foolishness of becoming your own god. You either take God as He describes Himself, or you worship yourself. You reject the dichotomy but that is because to you,God is you. It leaves you stuck in your world of sin, loving it with a god of your imaginings. That, my friend, is hell, and no, love cannot reach it, ever, forever. Eternal isn't just enduring days, it is an unaltered unalterable state. Hell is getting exactly what your finite mind imagines and demands, forever, because it is a rejection of the God who is, with no desire to see or know Him on His own terms.

I've refuted ECT here and elsewhere. This has nothing to do with worshipping 'me' as 'God', but using the faculties given to me by 'God' which include 'reason', 'logic', 'spiritual intelligence', 'conscience', etc....which is why I reject your caricature of God's judgment and concept of 'eternal punishment'. I've treated these misconceptions elsewhere.

They "couldn't" hear. They "couldn't" be reached.
You, Mick and the other three brothers don't appreciate the authority of Moses and the Prophets that Jesus here attests to them and will not be convinced, exactly as Abraham told Lazarus, even if one should rise from the dead.

Treated this here. There is no concept of 'eternal punishment' implied in that 'parable', but suffering because of his conscience being seared by his lack of charity. Remember, its just a parable...used to illustrate a point,...that point was to do good while you have the opportunity.

~*~*~

The Salvation Conspiracy: How 'Hell' became eternal

What the hell is hell?

 

[way 2 go]

Read your bible instead of Google fishing :dizzy:

All the new-age wacko's have flocked to this thread with grandiose opinion and self-inflation. I will repeat, read your bibles. It only matters what God thinks and what is. The rest (much "I" "me" "you" opinion of this thread) are meaningless platitudes by kindergarteners.