Why would God need a hell?

[Mickiel]

1)



The question then is, while we are seeking Jesus, honestly, fervently, why is it that there are only a handful of Universalists on the planet? How did 'sentimentality' take the place of Revelation and instruction from God? Will you be instructed if God says otherwise? Yes or no?

I am not a universalist, but I will say this about you being so proud of the number of Christians there are; the church in the final days is chased by satan in Revelations 13-14th chapters, the bible even gives a numerical number as to its size; 144,000. Christianity is the worlds largest church, there are over 2.18 billion Christians on earth , one third of humanity. Its academic that the church satan is after in Revelations, is not Christianity. And that's bible.

Hello?

 

[Lon]

Let's ask again,.......Would you Lon torture your children forever and ever condemning them to endless punishment for all eternity because they failed to love you or meet your standard of righteousness or for any reason whatever?. That is what is immoral and heinous. The concept of ECT is horrendous on principle alone and rejected by anyone having some intelligence, reason and a conscience. Now you can answer the question if you have the intellectual honesty and moral fortitude to do so.

Let's not. There is a God, and I am not Him. You are emoting, and trying to get another to emote with you, as if 'emotions' are God. He is a separate being from me. I'll listen to Him.

I 'can' think of having to make a difficult choice. You can't. You turn it to 'unthinkable' and then turn it off. That's the way of the spiritualist, very ego-centered and "own god" syndrome.

 

[Prizebeatz1]

God is NOT within you, He is external from us UNTIL one becomes a new creation in Christ. Sorry, not my rules. I will embrace them and espouse them.

This new-age stuff is, again, often the result of drug and alcohol abuse on feeble and broken minds. I've seen it time and again, of most of the Buddhist/Christian people I've met. They are so mind-gone they don't realize how very badly they've damaged their 'logic' ability. This is why, I believe, drug use and abuse is related to demonology.

If Christians speak Christianease, at least the majority on the planet recognize the language. I'm not sure what you mean by biting the forbidden fruit. What do you imagine it is? By your words, you'd have me "discover the God within me" nonsense. He isn't me, He is separate. The Spiritualist will never understand that. He/she will continue to think that "God" is the universe. He is not. He is apart from His universe and He takes great pains in scripture to remind us He is apart from us. Nobody that has ever read his/her bible misunderstand this. It is very clear. You either accept it or correct/reject (same thing) it according to 'your' own desire. Spiritualism is ALWAYS self-worship, not God-worship. Always.

God is everywhere so how could he NOT be in us too? God is infinite and eternal and we are one with this. Try an experiment when you get a chance and imagine what would happen were you to let go of your beliefs. You would experience an empty void. This is part of what is infinite and eternal and you can't escape it because you are a part of it too. We can use beliefs to block our awareness of it but it doesn't change the fact that we are one with this infinity and eternity. Biting the forbidden fruit and judging this as bad is where we go wrong.

 

[Lon]

I am not a universalist, but I will say this about you being so proud of the number of Christians there are

Don't, stop, come-back.... :sigh:

the church in the final days is chased by satan in Revelations 13-14th chapters, the bible even gives a numerical number as to its size; 144,000. Christianity is the worlds largest church, there are over 2.18 billion Christians on earth , one third of humanity.

As a "universalist" why are you trying to scare me? :doh:

Its academic that the church satan is after in Revelations, is not Christianity. And that's bible.

Hello?

First of all, the 144k are just Israel martyrs as far as I've understood and read. Maybe I'm wrong, but that certainly doesn't make you right. You are speculating to justify. If you could prove, from scripture, that God was going to save everyone, I'd believe it. The problem is, I've been many times through my entire bible, and I'm just not seeing your verses the way you are. I've seen them in their context as I've read through it, but I've never read "universal salvation" ever from any text. I have no idea how you could come up with the idea. A straight reading through the bible doesn't give that impression.

I am not a universalist, but I will say this about you being so proud of the number of Christians there are

Back to this. I am not giving the number in pride, but to show that many many people read their bibles, all the way through, many times (of the small number of us, that have read through it). My point is to say that among them, of 2.18 billion, you'd think that universalism would become a phenomena if the scriptures at all supported the idea. Jesus spoke of narrow roads and few. Shoot, you just gave me 144k and you are a supposed universalist!

I don't know why few of us will find the narrow way. I do know, that I want to follow.

 

[Prizebeatz1]

Sorry, no. You've bought the serpent's lie. God is not within you. He is a separate being. He is the Creator and Master of all. I know the id hates dying to self, but you've turned it around. Satan is both deceived, and a deceiver, he believes what he sells. You do too.

The promise of the Spirit, who 'will be in you' is exclusively to those surrendering their will to God and abdicating the throne of 'me me me.'

The lie is the belief in separation from God. We are attached to this belief because we are attached to the enemy. Without the belief the personality would disappear into what is infinite and eternal. Satan is the part of us that wants to hang on. "Whoever tries to keep their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life will preserve it." Luke 17:33.

 

[Prizebeatz1]

Oh Prizebeatz1, This is one of your greatest quotes, if you don't mind, I've got to use it in the future ; simply profound!

It's all yours.

 

[Lon]

God is everywhere so how could he NOT be in us too?

Pantheism or Panentheism? God is not physical and sin separates us from God. It is an 'absence' not a place to dwell.

God is infinite and eternal and we are one with this.

:nono: Not in our fallen state.

Try an experiment when you get a chance and imagine what would happen were you to let go of your beliefs.

Why???? I'm in Jesus Christ. I have no desire to be anywhere else.

You would experience an empty void. This is part of what is infinite and eternal and you can't escape it because you are a part of it too.

You should probably link or quote a website or something. An empty void??? Eastern Meditation is different than Christian meditation.

We can use beliefs to block our awareness of it but it doesn't change the fact that we are one with this infinity and eternity.

"Awe" is a great thing. I am in awe of God often. We are commanded to stand silent, and know He is God. Only with God promising to indwell do I find Him there. Only one made a holy temple can be indwelled by a holy God. "Holy" means 'separate' and "set apart." If that looks judgmental or exclusive, it is not that. When we were growing up, we had 'good china.' It was never to come down as 'every day' china because the risk to it breaking was always a possibility. Someone who doesn't understand would call us 'snobs.' They'd be hasty and incorrect. It had nothing to do with that. Likewise, we need the blood of Jesus to make us Holy, set apart, and uncommon. 1 John 1:7 Scripture calls this a 'new creation' different from the old. Salvation is a scrapping of the old, not elevating the plastic plates to the china cabinet.

Biting the forbidden fruit and judging this as bad is where we go wrong.

I think, in some ways, I see where you are coming from. There is a choice to do the holy or the profane. If there is no fine china, you use what you have, but the gospel message is about becoming new creations, something 'different' than we are with sin. 2 Corinthians 5:17

 

[Caino]

Ah, the classic cult fall-back: "Pharisee!" Hint: I'd rather be the Pharisee who Jesus told His disciples to "listen to" than a lost heathen/false teacher who we are told to "have nothing to do with."

Ananias and Sapphira, for lying about a bit of money they kept for themselves, died at the Apostle Peter's feet. Your religion has no understanding of such righteous demands. Your accusation would think Peter and God, the Pharisees, such is the cult mentality, always turning it around and thinking the opposite of what scripture says, even "correcting it where it is 'wrong.'" Glad after years of drug riddling your mind, you feel qualified. I don't feel qualified to 'edit' God.

"I wish" to God, you would hear that Christ died for sinners. That the scriptures are the ONLY infallible word of God. "I wish" you'd be rational and reasonable to hear of the loving kindness of God, who sent His only Son, that whosoever believeth in Him, should not perish, but have everlasting life." Wasn't that the very thing you were banned for? You said the blood of Jesus did nothing, remember? Hebrew 9:22 or was that another ban?

Yea, they said the same thing about people who left Judaism to follow Jesus.

31 years clean and sober Lon, since I was 22 years old. But who would use my open and honest life experience that I have shared on this forum against me? People like you Lon. Your head full of Bible has no bearing on your character.

In the original gospel Jesus lived for the cause of salvation. In Paul's remixed gospel Jesus died for the cause of sin. The Roman world already had those primitive concepts, Jesus never taught that his death was conditional to repentance and forgiveness.


Jesus repeatedly spoke against being rejected, but being rejected became the foundation of the religion about Jesus.

What did Jesus of the Bible say about all the messengers sent by God who were rejected?




Matthew 21:33-46 reads:


“Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower and he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit and the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one and stoned another. Again he sent other servants, more than the first and they did likewise to them. Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him. “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?” They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.”

 

[Lon]

Yea, they said the same thing about people who left Judaism to follow Jesus.

31 years clean and sober Lon, since I was 22 years old. But who would use my open and honest life experience that I have shared on this forum against me? People like you Lon. Your head full of Bible has no bearing on your character.

Blowing brain cells is blowing brain cells. They don't grow back. Neither do alveoli, people shouldn't smoke. We shouldn't do drugs, we shouldn't smoke. I was not using it against you as a slam, just that you have less brain cells than the rest of us, maybe less alveoli too :idunno:

It may be corollary only, but I think a lot of 'Christian/Buddhists' are making excuses and covering for something else. I am glad you have been sober for 30 years. I truly am. I am just not certain that you weren't a 'spiritualist' back then. Again, correlation and often excusing behavior. They get tired of feeling guilty, make a religion that makes them feel more comfortable doing what they won't stop.

In the original gospel Jesus lived for the cause of salvation. In Paul's remixed gospel Jesus died for the cause of sin. The Roman world already had those primitive concepts, Jesus never taught that his death was conditional to repentance and forgiveness.

Uhm, Mark 1:15; 6:12 Luke 13:3,5

No idea what bible you've been reading. You aren't alone on thinking Paul's gospel was different but I'll leave that for another day. I disagree. My understanding of the 'difference' is that Paul included gentiles.

Jesus repeatedly spoke against being rejected, but being rejected became the foundation of the religion about Jesus.

He was despised and rejected of men. Isaiah 53:3

What did Jesus of the Bible say about all the messengers sent by God who were rejected?

1 John 4:1

Matthew 21:33-46
“He will destroy those wicked men miserably and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.”

Ah, so you think you are the faithful steward. :think: Parables are always tricky applications. In context, as best as I can read, the Pharisees are the audience, and they are looking for an opportunity to kill Jesus. He says that tax collectors and prostitutes will enter heaven ahead of them. Because they are righteous? No because they repent and are saved "go and sin no more." These teachers were saying one thing, doing another. They were robbing people at the temple, robbing them in the synagogue. I really don't see a lot of ability to cast another as a Pharisee today. I'd likely look toward charlatans robbing widows and others of their tithes, but Pharisees were specifically Jewish. These latter are false prophets and false teachers, charlatans only interested in jets and nice suits.



Cults tend to throw these parables and names around as if they don't matter who or what was being talked about or addressed. Afterall, you just called me a liar, a Pharisee, and of dubious character for mentioning the connection between new-age pandering and drug use.

You weren't 'sharing' with me at the time I first mentioned this. I was surprised you admitted it, in fact. I am not throwing it back in your face, I'm repeating what I said before: People who I have met like this, have tended to come from drug-related backgrounds.

 

[Mickiel]

As a "universalist" why are you trying to scare me? :doh:

.

Scare you, man please, we believe all are saved and safe, your religion teaches that God is going to continually hurt people in your hell for 12 billion years, multiplied by 999 trillion more years, plus an additional 7 quadrillion years and then on into infinity!

Good grief , what could be more scary that that?

What's wrong with you Christians? You can't see the sheer insanity of your own belief? Then you claim you have read the bible for years? I would not even pick it up again if I saw that insanity in it.

 

[Caino]

Blowing brain cells is blowing brain cells. They don't grow back. Neither do alveoli, people shouldn't smoke. We shouldn't do drugs, we shouldn't smoke. I was not using it against you as a slam, just that you have less brain cells than the rest of us, maybe less alveoli too :idunno:

It may be corollary only, but I think a lot of 'Christian/Buddhists' are making excuses and covering for something else. I am glad you have been sober for 30 years. I truly am. I am just not certain that you weren't a 'spiritualist' back then. Again, correlation and often excusing behavior. They get tired of feeling guilty, make a religion that makes them feel more comfortable doing what they won't stop.


Uhm, Mark 1:15; 6:12 Luke 13:3,5

No idea what bible you've been reading. You aren't alone on thinking Paul's gospel was different but I'll leave that for another day. I disagree. My understanding of the 'difference' is that Paul included gentiles.

He was despised and rejected of men. Isaiah 53:3

1 John 4:1




Ah, so you think you are the faithful steward. :think: Parables are always tricky applications. In context, as best as I can read, the Pharisees are the audience, and they are looking for an opportunity to kill Jesus. He says that tax collectors and prostitutes will enter heaven ahead of them. Because they are righteous? No because they repent and are saved "go and sin no more." These teachers were saying one thing, doing another. They were robbing people at the temple, robbing them in the synagogue. I really don't see a lot of ability to cast another as a Pharisee today. I'd likely look toward charlatans robbing widows and others of their tithes, but Pharisees were specifically Jewish. These latter are false prophets and false teachers, charlatans only interested in jets and nice suits.



Cults tend to throw these parables and names around as if they don't matter who or what was being talked about or addressed. Afterall, you just called me a liar, a Pharisee, and of dubious character for mentioning the connection between new-age pandering and drug use.

You weren't 'sharing' with me at the time I first mentioned this. I was surprised you admitted it, in fact. I am not throwing it back in your face, I'm repeating what I said before: People who I have met like this, have tended to come from drug-related backgrounds.

When someone doesn't like what they are hearing because of the cognitive disonece it causes, they label such as a cult. The typical claim is that it comes from Satan, demonic forces, whatever, same stuff, different day. Surely you know that the contemporaries of Jesus, in his day and among his own people strongly objected to the gospel he taught in and around Jerusalem. It had far more to do with his liberating message than a threat to Temple profiteers. The Jews are STILL actually on this thread articulating their theological differences with Jesus.

The purpose of the parable I chose illustrates the stark objection Jesus had to the rejection of his original, good news gospel. That should be common sense, it should go without saying. But the real head scratcher is the claim by Christians that Jesus came to be rejected, consequently, he was just pretending to want to win the Jews over to what would be an insincere effort on his part.

Christianity is a mere shadow of the original gospel of the kingdom of heaven. Jesus' religion has largely failed for now, it was replaced by a physical church muddied up by Peter and Paul's new, post cross religion about Jesus as a human sacrifice for sin.

The truth is what it is regardless of your objections. To claim that the landowner sent his son to be sacrificed is theoretical salvation based on erroneous human speculation and conjecture. It is completely at odds with what Jesus was saying in the parable?!?!? Then it gets more obsurd when atonement peddlers overlook the fact that God/the land owner would punish the people for what would be his own his own will!!!!! Your story Lon, it just has holes all in it!


It makes no sense at all to claim Jesus spent 3+ years going all around Israel teaching people to reject his teaching and kill him to obsolve YOU from your personal sins!


"It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so." –Mark Twain

 

[Zeke]

:doh: It is wishful thinking and believing Jonathan Livingston Seagull is a theology book :dizzy: This new-age gunk is most often accompanied by drug-heads past or present, who have damaged brain cells and opened themselves up to the great deceiver "you will NOT surely die."

Er, yes, you will. God is not mocked. You and I will reap what we sow unless we enter the narrow gate.

The new age gunk started around the third century when Rome extroverted allegorical teaching into historic events, that don't pass the test.

Ah the Academic mind of Lon's paper or plastic world, Yet the truth you really need is something beyond the mind that isn't learned in books or governmentalist/religious institutions Lon, No condemnation there like you wish upon others while hiding behind the Marque of christian, I do hope you try a more excellent way of the still small voice in 1Cor 13:1-13 and some right divisional skills 2Cor 3:6, Luke 17:20-21, remember John Matt 11:11, had to have his head cut off, some really good clues there, plus Luke 9:54-55 is good to digest etc............................

 

[Prizebeatz1]

Hell is caused by the belief in separation from God. Why WOULDN'T that cause hell?

 

[Apple7]

I don't think 6,000, but give me a couple of weeks and I'll be over 1,000.

Go for 6K, bro...!

And one more thing, no matter how many verses I use, nothing could give me more joy than to know that you keep reading this thread.

We keep you around for educational purposes on your false teachings....and/or you burn-out on your own...

 

[freelight]

God Omnipresent.....

God Omnipresent.....

Hell is caused by the belief in separation from God. Why WOULDN'T that cause hell?

And 'heaven' dawns as one realizes the omnipresence of Spirit

The indivisible One and All cannot be separate or different from its own Being, that One being All There IS.

 

[Lon]

Scare you, man please, we believe all are saved and safe, your religion teaches that God is going to continually hurt people in your hell for 12 billion years, multiplied by 999 trillion more years, plus an additional 7 quadrillion years and then on into infinity!

Good grief , what could be more scary that that?

ONLY 144k. You said it, remember? If only a 144k, that leaves you and me and even every JW out. It is an incredibly small number. You said it, not me. You got weird. I think you just like to tout Universalism so that only you 144k Universalists will make it or something? I don't know why you said it, but it was surely bizarre. You are an inconsistent universalist and have done these faux pas a few times in thread.

What's wrong with you Christians?

Um, you gave me 144k. That is incredibly worse than any message I'd give. Jesus said few will find the narrow "because they love darkness rather than the light." Sorry that offends you. You need to take it up with Jesus, not 'us Christians.' We didn't write this stuff, we simply believe it. It is in the Bible. You should probably read it instead of googling verses. That isn't being 'faithful to His Word.' It is an abuse of it. Remember I told you so.

You can't see the sheer insanity of your own belief?

I asked you to explain just 5 passages, not 600, not 300, just a few verses. You never did. Probably cannot, sufficiently. I'm not sure you are capable of working with Language Arts (English) in a meaningful way. I'd like to see it though. Then you'd at least realize I am telling you what I read, rather than made up or got from a church. 5 short passages. It was a pretty easy request

Then you claim you have read the bible for years?

Great, way to be incredulous. I do not 'emote' my way through the Bible. In fact, I only gave you 5 passages and asked for your comment on them. You are the one that didn't do a thing with them. Did I accuse you at that point? :nono: I even told you that the vast majority of those who read their bibles, are not and never have been universalists and asked why you think that is.

I would not even pick it up again if I saw that insanity in it.

Understood. You don't realize it, but you are 'more moral than God' to do so, in your own mind. If and unless God submits to your sense of justice, He is no god at all, in your mind. A LONG time ago, I realized my sense of morality stunk. If you have EVER hurt another living soul (and hint, you took a shot at me here), then you are not the moral man you 'think' you are. And like me, your morality stinks. God's doesn't. Stop judging Him. It is near impossible for a man who is his own god, to need a Savior and God. You guys in thread would need to give up pride, id, ego, and sinful self. We can only be truly, rightly moral, in God. Stop judging with a faulty morality gauge. It gives false readings. Satan is happy with your being duped. Stop making him happy. Please God instead. Whatever He says, this we accept, even at times when we don't understand. My parents did say "because I said so." I did not always understand and even questioned that, but it never made them unloving. That was just teen angst. You guys need to get over 'teen angst' imho.

 

[Lon]

... Christians [say] that Jesus came to be rejected, consequently, he was just pretending to want to win the Jews over to what would be an insincere effort on his part.

No idea who believes that. Citation? Matthew 23:37

Christianity is a mere shadow of the original gospel of the kingdom of heaven. Jesus' religion has largely failed for now, it was replaced by a physical church muddied up by Peter and Paul's new, post cross religion about Jesus as a human sacrifice for sin.

Not buying it. Israel was never up to par spiritually, yet God loved them. Christians may muddle but God loves them as well. Growing up around tares is not the easiest thing in the world.

The truth is what it is regardless of your objections. To claim that the landowner sent his son to be sacrificed is theoretical salvation based on erroneous human speculation and conjecture. It is completely at odds with what Jesus was saying in the parable?!?!? Then it gets more obsurd when atonement peddlers overlook the fact that God/the land owner would punish the people for what would be his own his own will!!!!! Your story Lon, it just has holes all in it!

I haven't found you a careful reader so don't take your particular assessments very seriously. Let's look:

Luke at what Mark, Luke, and John tell us:

Mark 11:18 And the chief priests and the scribes heard it and were seeking a way to destroy him, for they feared him, because all the crowd was astonished at his teaching.
Luke 19:47 And he was teaching daily in the temple. The chief priests and the scribes and the principal men of the people were seeking to destroy him,
Joh 11:53 So from that day on they made plans to put him to death.

And then Jesus:
Joh 12:23 And Jesus answered them, "The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified.
Joh 12:24Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit.
Joh 12:25Whoever loves his life loses it, and whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.
Joh 12:26If anyone serves me, he must follow me; and where I am, there will my servant be also. If anyone serves me, the Father will honor him.
Joh 12:27"Now is my soul troubled. And what shall I say? 'Father, save me from this hour'? But for this purpose I have come to this hour.

Again, I don't find you a careful or thoughtful man and as far as I'm concerned, you are shown wrong here.

It makes no sense at all to claim Jesus spent 3+ years going all around Israel teaching people to reject his teaching and kill him to obsolve YOU from your personal sins!

The Kingdom offer was genuine. Things today would have looked different 'if' Israel embraced Him. God foreknows however and planned Christ Crucified from the foundations of the world. 1 Peter 1:20 Revelation 13:8

"It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so." –Mark Twain

Seeing how this is exactly how I see your devotion to Urantia, this is an ironic quote from you.

 

[Lon]

The new age gunk started around the third century when Rome extroverted allegorical teaching into historic events, that don't pass the test.

What test? Whose test? What made it the 'new standard?' Who is passing it off as valid? What verification? It is always about 'authority' at that point, isn't it? How can you or I escape it?

Ah the Academic mind of Lon's paper or plastic world

Or Zeke's 'smarter than God' world? What have I got left when I see gross over-spiritualizing? I 'think' it better to stick to what is there than to try and 'follow my heart.' I wouldn't have been a good guy or I'd be dead today without the gospel, 'paper plastic' gospel, as you call it, of Jesus Christ. It/He does save.

Yet the truth you really need is something beyond the mind that isn't learned in books or governmentalist/religious institutions Lon, No condemnation there like you wish upon others while hiding behind the Marque of christian, I do hope you try a more excellent way of the still small voice in 1Cor 13:1-13 and some right divisional skills 2Cor 3:6, Luke 17:20-21, remember John Matt 11:11, had to have his head cut off, some really good clues there, plus Luke 9:54-55 is good to digest etc............................

The wise man built his house upon the rock, not the sky, not the sinful man within, not the sand. Paul said that the sinful man was at enmity with the Spirit of God. Frankly, you've spent too much time on TOL and think your angst justified instead of misplaced. It is misplaced and you are being a fool as far as I can tell and discern. "If Christ sets you free, you are free indeed" and that freedom from sin and death.

Jesus Christ is still the chief cornerstone accepted, or the stone of stumbling for all men, Zeke. I yet hold out hope you will build on the rock that is higher than I. Psalm 61:2 Urantia crud ain't it.

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul; the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple;
Psa 19:8 the precepts of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes;
Psa 19:9 the fear of the LORD is clean, enduring forever; the rules of the LORD are true, and righteous altogether.
Psa 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, even much fine gold; sweeter also than honey and drippings of the honeycomb.
Psa 19:11 Moreover, by them is your servant warned; in keeping them there is great reward.
Psa 19:12 Who can discern his errors? Declare me innocent from hidden faults.
Psa 19:13 Keep back your servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me! Then I shall be blameless, and innocent of great transgression.
Psa 19:14 Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in your sight, O LORD, my rock and my redeemer.



2 Corinthians 3:6 isn't about abolishing the law, both Jesus and Paul said it was good. You are making it a bad thing. Paul said it wasn't both in this chapter (did you read it or just quote mine it? I make a habit of reading the context of verses every time I use them or read another's I'd suggest the same to you), and in Romans. The standards are good. It is no bad thing to tell you to 'love your enemy and do good to them.' Rather, being told this reminds us of all the times we've failed. That only means I, you, need a Savior, and forgiveness for falling short. It is in Christ, that liberty is found. Someone forgiven 1) is loved and truly know it 2) is freed from the consequences he/she has perpetrated 3) is able to be indwelled by the living God as a new and cleaned vessel 4) Able to do it right the next time. You take umbrage with me probably being harsh with heresy, but I have not yet turned a harsh word your way. I am, however, convinced, that one who truly has found the way, will not be expressing ill and angst as you've done since your departures. You started, that year and near two now ago, being harsh. It can't be over threads like this, because I mostly avoid them and have most cultists on ignore. It is, for me, a dust shaking. I will use opportunities to share Christ and then move on, as I'm going to do here. I would that you'd take a harder look inside as well as re-evaluate the scriptures that give life.


2Ti 3:14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it
2Ti 3:15 and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

2Ti 4:2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.
2Ti 4:3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,
2Ti 4:4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.


Do you disagree with any of these scriptures? Embrace them?

 

[Caino]

No idea who believes that. Citation? Matthew 23:37


Not buying it. Israel was never up to par spiritually, yet God loved them. Christians may muddle but God loves them as well. Growing up around tares is not the easiest thing in the world.


I haven't found you a careful reader so don't take your particular assessments very seriously. Let's look:

Luke at what Mark, Luke, and John tell us:

Mark 11:18 And the chief priests and the scribes heard it and were seeking a way to destroy him, for they feared him, because all the crowd was astonished at his teaching.
Luke 19:47 And he was teaching daily in the temple. The chief priests and the scribes and the principal men of the people were seeking to destroy him,
Joh 11:53 So from that day on they made plans to put him to death.

And then Jesus:
Joh 12:23 And Jesus answered them, "The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified.
Joh 12:24Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit.
Joh 12:25Whoever loves his life loses it, and whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.
Joh 12:26If anyone serves me, he must follow me; and where I am, there will my servant be also. If anyone serves me, the Father will honor him.
Joh 12:27"Now is my soul troubled. And what shall I say? 'Father, save me from this hour'? But for this purpose I have come to this hour.

Again, I don't find you a careful or thoughtful man and as far as I'm concerned, you are shown wrong here.

The Kingdom offer was genuine. Things today would have looked different 'if' Israel embraced Him. God foreknows however and planned Christ Crucified from the foundations of the world. 1 Peter 1:20 Revelation 13:8

Seeing how this is exactly how I see your devotion to Urantia, this is an ironic quote from you.

Playing dumb leads to being dumb. All that and you didn't or cant explain why Jesus said his Father would not be pleased by the killing of the Son in the parable. Only parts of the original gospel remain in Paul's New Testament.


Knowing he wasn't the Jewish Messiah as conceived of by the Jews, Jesus decided to trust the Fathers guidance to sort out the tangled mess of the final rejection of the Jews and the transplantation of the light to other people. It was already the will of the Father for the Creator Son to experience all that his children are to experience, death being the final act. But never was the rejection of and death of the Son about forgiveness. That's a cop out!

The foundation of Christianity's interpretation of the life of Jesus is that he came to die as a sacrifice for your sins. That's not the gospel Jesus tried to teach the Jews, but it is a concept that was already prevalent in the Pagan world in addition to the older, conflicted primitive Pagan beliefs of the Jews that there is no remission of sin without the shedding of blood.

But when the church made Paul's words equal to Jesus' words, the stage was set for the miscarriage of the original gospel. It was replaced by Paul's new gospel about the cross.

The bizarre claim that God the Father had planned for his innocent Creator Son to be rejected by his so called chosen people so that his heart could finally be moved to forgive is something so obviously wrong that it's obviously human in origin.

Salvation is by faith, forgiveness by sincere repentance. That was the religion of Jesus. Paul's compromises with the Pagan world for the sake of numbers gave the world inconsistent Christianity.

 

[Prizebeatz1]

And 'heaven' dawns as one realizes the omnipresence of Spirit

The indivisible One and All cannot be separate or different from its own Being, that One being All There IS.

Exactly.