Why Some Are Hell Bound

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Bard_the_Bowman

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jamie said:
Those who "sleep" will be in the first resurrection. They have eternal life and death can't touch them, but they are not conscious.
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I disagree.

Hebrews 12 tells us that we are surrounded by a "great cloud of witnesses" and in verses 22-24 we are told who makes up those witnesses.

Part of that group are : "the spirits of just men made perfect" (verse 23).

Well, they can't be witnesses unless they are witnessing something so they are conscious. And they are spirits of men that are conscious.

Peace.

Those who are "dead" will be in the second resurrection.
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We all will be part of the second resurrection. That's when we get reunited with our bodies like Jesus did.

I hope to be able to walk through a wall.:p

Peace.
 
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Bard_the_Bowman

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jamie said:
To preach telepathically requires that each spirit must have a mind to process the communication.
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Not a problem. Lots of persons have minds but not physical bodies. God and the billions of angels, for example.

To preach audibly each spirit must not only have a mind but also a mouth with lips, teeth, tongue, as well as vocal cords and lungs.
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We don't really know how communication works in the spiritual realm. We know it works, though.

You are trying to impose what we know about human communication while in a physically body onto pure spirits.

It is not necessary to try to do that. Spirits don't have bodies but they can communicate.

How that "spiritual technology" works we don't really know. But there is plenty of biblical evidence that it does work.

We know that spirits can communicate telepathically because God knows our thoughts and once we have his spirit we can know his thoughts if we listen.
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There you go. Spirits have minds. Humans disconnected from their bodies are spirit. They have just lost their bodies for a time.

Peace.
 
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Bard_the_Bowman

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jamie said:
What? You didn't know about the cross on top?

Yeah, it's there, that's what makes it Christian.

Stick a cross on Halloween and its Christian.

Stick a cross on Christmas and its Christian.

Stick a cross on Easter and its Christian.

Stick a cross on the sun day and its Christian.

What more do you want?
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Jamie,

You are committing a "genetic fallacy".

You are misjudging things based on their history rather than on their own merits.

For example, you seem to be suggesting that nobody should celebrate Christmas because pagans might've celebrated something similar around that time first.

That's kind of like saying "nobody should use that medicine if they are sick because the guy who invented it was a thief."

Well, if the medicine works...who cares? What is the medicines' own merit?

Same with Christmas. Regardless of what pagans did or didn't do around that time....Is the birth of God in human flesh to come and save us from our sins worth celebrating? Ya darn tootin' it is!! Who cares what pagans did....our God came to us and we are gonna celebrate that!! Whenever we want!!

You are also committing the "after this therefore because of this fallacy". You are assuming that because some ancient pagans did something, any Christian practices that are similar must have come from that. That is an assumption.

Here's one example of how we know such similarities really don't matter.

The ancient Egyptians and others practiced circumcision.

And circumcision was the sign of the covenant between God and Israel.

"Pagan corruption" perhaps? God should have known better to not use that pagan practice?

Nah.
 
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Bard_the_Bowman

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jamie said:
There is a marker to the sun god in the front yard of the Vatican that gives it away.

The marker was dressed up with a cross to make it appear Christian.
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Genetic fallacy.

I've already explained to you in earlier posts the significance of that.

I hope you are not wearing a wedding ring. That is a pagan practice carried over into modern times.

I hope you don't call Saturday...Saturday. It is named after the Roman false god Saturn.

I hope you don't ever use the word "panic". It comes from the Greek false god "Pan".

The list is probably endless.

And irrelevant.
 
TulipBee

TulipBee

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Banned
jamie said:
So smart doesn't count with regard to soul sleep, right?

Paul said, "We'll not all sleep...
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Man's time=in grave
God's time= in spirit as never died nor not having to wait one second.

If you want to wait, find with me

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Bard_the_Bowman

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popsthebuilder said:
Bard_the_Bowman said:
Well, in that case we are absolutely in agreement on that point.


But if we don't, we could be hell bound even if we don't blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Right?

Let's go over sin briefly.
We know of sin through the law right? The law is written in the heart of the Jew (truthful zealot), or is it the gentile (heathen)?So knowing the law, to sin is to knowingly go against what is right that is written in the heart by the Holy Spirit. So to blaspheme the Holy Spirit is knowing sin of the "faithful". This establishes the point that the truly faithful to GOD, those that do not deny the Christ, will be judged to the extent of their knowledge weighed against their words and actions. To be ignorant is to not know the law, which is to say the Holy Spirit does not dwell within them and as such they are innocent if truly ignorant of sin. As far as a murderer murdering people and not repenting; I must assume you mean a murderer with a fully functioning mind (but then a mass murderer wouldn't have a correctly functioning mind), in which case I would say the same.l; the law is written on the heart of man. If he has a conscience and is shamed that would be the Holy Spirit wanting to persuade change or repentance. So if being shamed by the Holy Spirit/selfless conscience, said murderer did not change prior to the inevitability of their physical death then yes, they would suffer hell. That is to say they would Ultimately be destroyed, and fuel that fires the kiln for the new creation wholly of GOD by only the will of GOD which is all that will remain. It isn't a man made doctrine, we just have a slight communication block going on. You can credit that one to me I guess.



I'm glad we do agree on many points it seems. A good start, no thanks to me.

I hope we can speak more in the future

peace

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My bad, pops. Sorry for the delay in responding.

Well, according to how you have explained that above...I would once again have to say I completely agree. But it seems to broaden the term "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" to such an extent that it includes any and all sins that any person may commit.

If we agree on that, then, yes, I agree with what you are saying.

But I am not convinced that that is what Jesus was talking about in Mark 3:28-30 because His words are coming after the scribes accused Him of being in cahoots with the Devil (Mark 3:22).

And in verse 30 Jesus says why they are "subject to eternal damnation". He says it is because they said "He has an unclean spirit."

In other words, the scribes attributed to Satan what was actually the work of God.

It could be that that kind of blasphemy could be unforgivable (probably not in principle because God can forgive all repented of sins) because such people may not even recognize their need for forgiveness and thus, never repent of their sins.

They basically reject God's offer of forgiveness.

But yeah, I'm not finding that to be the easiest part of the Bible to understand so.....

Peace.
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popsthebuilder

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Bard_the_Bowman said:
popsthebuilder said:
My bad, pops. Sorry for the delay in responding.

Well, according to how you have explained that above...I would once again have to say I completely agree. But it seems to broaden the term "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" to such an extent that it includes any and all sins that any person may commit.

If we agree on that, then, yes, I agree with what you are saying.

But I am not convinced that that is what Jesus was talking about in Mark 3:28-30 because His words are coming after the scribes accused Him of being in cahoots with the Devil (Mark 3:22).

And in verse 30 Jesus says why they are "subject to eternal damnation". He says it is because they said "He has an unclean spirit."

In other words, the scribes attributed to Satan what was actually the work of God.

It could be that that kind of blasphemy could be unforgivable (probably not in principle because God can forgive all repented of sins) because such people may not even recognize their need for forgiveness and thus, never repent of their sins.

They basically reject God's offer of forgiveness.

But yeah, I'm not finding that to be the easiest part of the Bible to understand so.....

Peace.
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I'm glad we again agree.

If the works of the Holy Spirit are blasphemed within ones own soul then they knowingly neglect the guidance of the Holy Spirit and keep to their own will. We know these are not the attributes of the followers of GOD or the Christ.

Thank you for your response. it is good to come to some level of agreement with another here.

May GOD mercifully guide us all towards the way set out and made clear and evident by the Christ of GOD.

peace friend....With humility and sincerity.

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Bard_the_Bowman

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popsthebuilder said:
Bard_the_Bowman said:
I'm glad we again agree.

If the works of the Holy Spirit are blasphemed within ones own soul then they knowingly neglect the guidance of the Holy Spirit and keep to their own will. We know these are not the attributes of the followers of GOD or the Christ.

Thank you for your response. it is good to come to some level of agreement with another here.

May GOD mercifully guide us all towards the way set out and made clear and evident by the Christ of GOD.

peace friend....With humility and sincerity.

Sent from my Alcatel_6055U using Tapatalk
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Amen, pops.

I don't have time or access to frequent this site everyday. So I sortof pop in and out as time allows.

I have found that there is a nice group of people who can discuss things civilly even when they disagree.

And some who sort of...well...let's just say some who forget the "gentleness and respect" part of 1 Peter 3:15.

But I suppose we all forget that at times.

I'll look forward to talking to you again sometime.

God bless.
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Bard_the_Bowman

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jamie said:
OK. :carryon:
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Hey Jamie.

I didn't mean to sound offensive to you when I said "irrelevant".

What I meant was that noting similarities between Christianity and paganism really proves nothing.

It would have to be proven that one came from the other...not assumed.

Noting similarities just really, well, notes similarities.

Peace.
 
jamie

jamie

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Bard_the_Bowman said:
What I meant was that noting similarities between Christianity and paganism really proves nothing.
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Yes, it seems most people believe in coincidence, especially with regard to religious beliefs.

My point is that putting a cross on an Egyptian obelisk hardly makes it Christian.

Isis is represented with a throne on her head and sometimes shown breastfeeding the infant Horus. In this manifestation she was known as “Mother of God.” To the Egyptians she represented the ideal wife and mother; loving, devoted, and caring.

https://discoveringegypt.com/ancient-egyptian-gods-and-goddesses/​

Just another coincidence.
 
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Bard_the_Bowman

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jamie said:
Yes, it seems most people believe in coincidence, especially with regard to religious beliefs.

My point is that putting a cross on an Egyptian obelisk hardly makes it Christian.

Isis is represented with a throne on her head and sometimes shown breastfeeding the infant Horus. In this manifestation she was known as “Mother of God.” To the Egyptians she represented the ideal wife and mother; loving, devoted, and caring.

https://discoveringegypt.com/ancient-egyptian-gods-and-goddesses/​

Just another coincidence.
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Well, I don't know about coincidence.

Just another similarity.

I mean, the idea of mothers holding infants is found in practically all cultures because all cultures experience that. That is a natural occurrence in all cultures.

But just because the Egyptians had a false "Mother of God", doesn't mean that there cannot be a true "Mother of God".

Peace.
 
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Bard_the_Bowman

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jamie said:
Was Isis a false mother of God to the Egyptians, is that how the Egyptians saw her?
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Hey Jamie,

It doesn't matter how somebody sees something. That isn't how to determine if something is true or not.

People can think that something is a god, or see something as a god, or mother of god, or all of those things...but that doesn't mean that what they are thinking is reality. That doesn't mean that it is true.

I think Elijah proved that point with his showdown with the prophets of Baal. It didn't matter how much they believed that Baal was a true god....he simply wasn't.

But just because they worshipped a false god doesn't mean that there isn't a True God to be worshipped. Elijah proved that as well.

The same is true of the Egyptians and the mother of their false god.

Peace.
 
R

Robert Pate

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Bard_the_Bowman said:
Hey Jamie,

It doesn't matter how somebody sees something. That isn't how to determine if something is true or not.

People can think that something is a god, or see something as a god, or mother of god, or all of those things...but that doesn't mean that what they are thinking is reality. That doesn't mean that it is true.

I think Elijah proved that point with his showdown with the prophets of Baal. It didn't matter how much they believed that Baal was a true god....he simply wasn't.

But just because they worshipped a false god doesn't mean that there isn't a True God to be worshipped. Elijah proved that as well.

The same is true of the Egyptians and the mother of their false god.

Peace.
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Maybe, just maybe, this is why God gave us the Bible.
 
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