Why men won't marry you

elohiym

Well-known member
Fixed it for you. :thumb:

I'll be more blunt with you:

YOU deserve a major beating. :cheers:

Not in an illegal way, but in charitable way, for correction.

because i don't agree with your way of thinking?

No, because you deserve eternal death but it would be more charitable to beat you, right? If I said you deserve to die you wouldn't disagree, so why whine about me thinking you need a major beating instead.

better bring some friends, mary :idunno:

A Mary would cheat on you instead of beating you.

Would you prefer to be beaten by Mary or cheated on by Mary, assuming you deserve a beating?

Would you like to beat your wife for committing adultery or see her executed by the State?
 

Rusha

LIFETIME MEMBER
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I also appreciate your reasoning with someone who thinks it's okay to beat a wife until she's dead, but I absolutely will not reason with someone of his ilk. The more I read from this group (doloTradSumsod), the more I realize how important it is for women to have autonomy from them, and the more I understand why they're here.

It makes it fairly clear why there are laws against domestic violence ... and why it is necessary for women to empower themselves so they are not at risk from these types of ... males.
 

Crucible

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Real tough guy aren't you. You can actually beat a woman.

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1PeaceMaker

New member
We know ... they run in packs. They infest internet forums under multiple usernames and then hide behind the women.

While cowering back there - they secretly deride those same women as gullible that they deceive - instead of admitting they are playing to the charitable, motherly side of them for shelter. Those who are reasonable enough figure out what is going on eventually. Often enough, by the time those cowards have run out of welcome, they have already switched allegiances... and sometimes... even stories.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
You're the one who refuses to offer any sort of argument in favor of your position. Offer me a non-fallacious argument that your views are correct.

I'm sorry, but "Booooooo, I disagree you" isn't a "rational conversation," nor is it evidence that a worldview "makes sense."

Without appealing to public opinion (which, again, actually probably is in my favor, if we include the public opinion of the whole human race, including the dead) or your own personal sensibilities, what evidence do you have in favor of your opinion?

Aside from neanderthal misogynists and sociopaths your views simply don't make any sense. Maybe centuries ago your dozy proposition would be tolerated but in a more enlightened and civilized age there's no tolerance towards such vile infringements of human rights - including beating your partner to a pulp or worse.

If you can't understand why that is then you're not only bereft of anything resembling empathy and compassion but also an intellect you so precociously and proudly lay claim to.
 

Traditio

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I guess that's part of the question at hand.

I fully agree. If it's not an act of justice, then I'm wrong. If it is an act of justice, then I'm right. :idunno:

Your hypothetical includes the State delegating so it's not the latter. If anything it would be the former.

Ok. So you grant the disjunction. Either:

1. She deserves it and the husband has the authority.

2. She deserves it, but the husband does not have the authority.

3. She doesn't deserve it.

I assert 1. You deny 1 and 2, leaving 3.

Let's look at her desert from different angles.

One reason she might not deserve it is because the crime itself is not proportionate to the penalty. Unfortunately, you can't claim this, since you have "Christian" under your screen name and avatar. Moses says that the crime itself is indeed proportionate to the penalty. In fact, this is true a forteriori since Moses prescribes death for all adulterers, whereas this woman has all sorts of attendant aggravating circumstances in addition to the mere commission of adultery.

Another reason she might not deserve it is because of mental illness, immaturity or some such other thing which diminishes her culpability. I have no argument that this didn't hold in her case, but I see no reason to believe that it did. She was a grown woman, she was married and she apparently was sufficiently enough in her right mind to think to herself: "Gee, I should go out, meet this guy and move him in to my husband's house."

Nor is it plausible that she can claim ignorance that what she was doing was wrong, that she was indeed doing that wrong thing, etc. We further cannot appeal to societal conditions which would mitigate her guilt. One might perhaps excuse a fornicator in a country in which fornication is rampant. But adulteresses bringing their lovers into the households of their husbands?

Again, you might say she doesn't deserve it because she committed the act in a state of incontinence, was overwhelmed by her passions and perhaps might be able to be reformed. But you yourself have admitted that her actions proceeded from vice, not incontinence.

Again, if you wish to appeal to the generally bad moral condition of the country and that only serious social outliers should be given such harsh penalties, then I'll ask you how common it is for a woman to bring a lover into her husband's household.

I'm sure you can see where I am going with this. Turn the matter over any way you want. Why doesn't she deserve it? What could possibly diminish her merit for punishment?

And again, I'll ask you:

Does she not deserve to die at all?
Does she not deserve to die by beating?
Does she not deserve to die by her husband's hand?

Then I'll tell you:

Moses commanded that adulterers be put to death.

Moses commanded that they be put to death by stoning. What great difference is there between stoning and beating?

Moses commanded that they be stoned by the entire community. Was the husband exempted from the privilege?

And again, I'll appeal to the custom of the Romans and the Greeks. What great difference is there between beating a woman to death for adultery, on the one hand, and sacrificing her on the family altar to the household gods, on the other hand, for the same crime?

But again, you'll insist that it's not charitable for a husband to do this. And again, I'll ask you: Were the precepts of Moses contrary to charity? Was the husband exempt from the administration of the penalty?

And if you insist that Christians are bound by charity to love their wives, then I'll insist in return that all Christians are bound by the same charity to love their neighbors as themselves. How can a Christian engage in a just war, administer any civic penalties, etc.?

Irrelevant.

It's not. It intensifies my point. St. Thomas Aquinas tells us that the State issues laws which are accompanied by the threat of punishment in order that those who are particularly and abnormally wicked might restrain themselves, having been educated by the law, and leave everyone else in peace, or else...

...If they won't do this? Well, I'll leave the rest for you to consider.

The woman's actions displayed a vicious and incurably wicked character. It's not particularly surprising that she murdered her husband. What do you expect from such a person?

As I said: what good could possibly come from letting her live?

What makes you say that vice is generally incurable?

It involves an error in the principles of practical reason. If you and I share the same principles, but disagree about a conclusion, I can persuade you based on our shared principles. But vicious people are so morally deranged in their character that even their principles are wrong, that they literally cannot be persuaded.

That's what makes them dangerous and naturally incapable of changing.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
that's 'cause you haven't been married to one of them

especially when they're dialed into modern pop-culture that encourages them to be immature

Good for your ex wife for getting the hell away from you and good for any lawyer that had her win any case against you in turn. I'm not surprised in the slightest if she had an affair with someone if she was shackled to you. Who could blame her?

Knob.
 

Traditio

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Banned
Aside from neanderthal misogynists and sociopaths your views simply don't make any sense. Maybe centuries ago your dozy proposition would be tolerated but in a more enlightened and civilized age there's no tolerance towards such vile infringements of human rights - including beating your partner to a pulp or worse.

If you can't understand why that is then you're not only bereft of anything resembling empathy and compassion but also an intellect you so precociously and proudly lay claim to.

Apparently you can't either, since you've not bothered to explain or provide arguments for it. :idunno:
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Apparently you can't either, since you've not bothered to explain or provide arguments for it. :idunno:

"Infringement of human rights" escape you or something?

People have the right not to be beaten up or for it to be tolerated under law. If that mystifies you then just wonder why it is that the forum sociopath/troll SOD 'gets' your posts while everyone else thinks you're a loon.
 

Traditio

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People have the right not to be beaten up or for it to be tolerated under law.

Even as the penalty for a crime? Even if it's the State that's doing the beating?

You'll also tell me, I'm sure, that people have a right not to be killed. Will you deny the justice of the death penalty?

What about imprisonment?
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Even as the penalty for a crime? Even if it's the State that's doing the beating?

Yep. Civilized societies don't have people beaten to a pulp as "justice".

You'll also tell me, I'm sure, that people have a right not to be killed. Will you deny the justice of the death penalty?

They certainly do, and certainly not at the beating hands of a spouse under the guise of "justice". I don't happen to support the death penalty but that's a separate issue and you can take it to the threads that address it.

What about imprisonment?

What about it? Imprisonment is often a mix of penalty and protecting society from criminals - including spouse beaters.
 
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