Why men won't marry you

Rusha

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
I thought men liked to protect the weaker members of society. Isn't that a mark of a true man?

Well the mark of a true man is certainly not someone who feels they are entitled to ownership of others ... which certainly does seem to be the case with several of the males on this thread.

We know that Traditio boasted on the right of husbands to give their wife a good beating, with high fives from a few of the same mindset.
 

elohiym

Well-known member
I fully agree. If it's not an act of justice, then I'm wrong. If it is an act of justice, then I'm right. :idunno:

It's not an act of justice.

Within the Mosaic law is a clause:

Deuteronomy 18:15 "The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your countrymen, you shall listen to him."​

That means if the Lord Jesus Christ said show mercy to adulteresses, you cannot execute or beat them.

John 8:11 She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more."​

That comports with the prophet Hosea:

Hosea 4:14 I will not punish your daughters when they play the harlot Or your brides when they commit adultery, For the men themselves go apart with harlots And offer sacrifices with temple prostitutes; So the people without understanding are ruined.​

You cannot punish an adulteress in this dispensation.
Yes, she's still guilty of adultery, but you have to just suck it up.
If she doesn't repent, vengeance is God's, not yours.
As I argued earlier, laws repugnant to God's moral precepts are void, so you can't rebut with a civil government argument.

Are we done now?
 

Rusha

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Does anyone else find it rather bizarre that New Guy keeps arguing that because it's okay for women to hit men that it is okay for men to hit women ..

Even though everyone keeps telling him it's NOT okay to hit anyone?

Is it willful ignorance? Flat out dishonesty? Paranoia?

:think:
 

Traditio

BANNED
Banned
And it's mostly pointless to engage someone of that mindset. Like I find myself saying from time to time, you can rarely move a person by reason who has not arrived at their position by the same faculty. Racists, misogynists, most extremists aren't what they are because they gave the matter a great deal of rational consideration.

TH:

If you'll examine what I actually wrote, you'll find that she and the rest of the liberals are oversimplifying what I said.

At no point did I say that it is, categorically speaking, acceptable to beat one's wife to death.

What I said was that it is not unfitting for the State to permit a husband to beat one's wife to death if she is an adulteress and has the audacity to move her lover into their home. [In point of fact, since this is not legal, I do not think that any husband in Europe or the United States, etc., should actually do this, even in that situation.]

I further provided extensive arguments for this against Kmo, Elo., et al.

You are, of course, perfectly free to think that I'm wrong; but I take offense to the insinuation that my views on this are anything but rationally grounded. They might be grounded on an erring reason, but reason nonetheless.

If you wish to address them, especially my latest to Kmo, I invite you to do so.

I wish, however, to point that I have said nothing which would not have been considered, if not commonplace, at least analogous to commonplace sentiments of the ancient Romans (in which the paterfamilias (father of the family or head of house hold) held power of life and death over his wife and children) and the Greeks (who, if he caught his wife in adultery, was perfectly in the right to sacrifice her at the family altar to the ancestral gods).
 

Traditio

BANNED
Banned
Well the mark of a true man is certainly not someone who feels they are entitled to ownership of others ... which certainly does seem to be the case with several of the males on this thread.

We know that Traditio boasted on the right of husbands to give their wife a good beating, with high fives from a few of the same mindset.

Rusha, let me ask you. Let's ignore the question of whether or not such a woman ignores punishment.

What is your opinion of an adulteress who moves her lover into the home of her husband, kicks her husband out of the marital bed and permits her lover's friends to hang out in her husband's house?
 

elohiym

Well-known member
I never hit my husband before, during or after our marriage. However, don't expect his barking to stop ... these imaginary, battering wives are everywhere.

:thumb:

I've never hit or shoved a woman violently.

1PM has never hit or shoved me violently, even though some here will tell you she should. :chuckle:
 

Crucible

BANNED
Banned
Does anyone else find it rather bizarre that New Guy keeps arguing that because it's okay for women to hit men that it is okay for men to hit women ..

Even though everyone keeps telling him it's NOT okay to hit anyone?

Is it willful ignorance? Flat out dishonesty? Paranoia?

:think:

"It's not okay to hit anyone" does not suffice as an answer, because men fight each other everyday, and women hit men everyday, but it's only when a man hits a woman that you lose your little mind.
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
, let me ask you. Let's ignore the question of whether or not such a woman ignores punishment.

What is your opinion of an adulteress who moves her lover into the home of her husband, kicks her husband out of the marital bed and permits her lover's friends to hang out in her husband's house?

According to you, obviously she's on par for a severe beating. She deserves to be beaten about the face and head ? That's what you've been saying.
 

Traditio

BANNED
Banned
According to you, obviously she's on par for a severe beating. She deserves to be beaten about the face and head ? That's what you've been saying.

Let's ignore my opinion for a moment. Let's even ignore for the moment that the woman and her lover ended up murdering the husband.

What do you think about such a woman?
 

Traditio

BANNED
Banned
She needs Christ.

Do you disagree?

I think that about everyone, and I more than everyone else.

But there's different kinds of offenses. There are sins against fortitude, sins against temperance, sins against charity, sins against justice, etc.

The glutton needs Jesus. So does a serial murderer.

But the two are not guilty in the same way and to the same degree.

But of course, "who am I to judge" somebody's guilt? Let's ignore their guilt. Let's attend to the objective gravity of their actions. One has acted more poorly than the other.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
At no point did I say that it is, categorically speaking, acceptable to beat one's wife to death.
Trad, if you're defending striking someone except in self-defense or in defense of someone else in jeopardy, your mistake is only a matter of degree. To suggest it as a privilege of one sex compounds the error.

...I wish, however, to point that I have said nothing which would not have been considered, if not commonplace, at least analogous to commonplace sentiments of the ancient Romans (in which the paterfamilias (father of the family or head of house hold) held power of life and death over his wife and children) and the Greeks (who, if he caught his wife in adultery, was perfectly in the right to sacrifice her at the family altar to the ancestral gods).
That's your yardstick? The conduct of slave owners who crucified Christ? And Greeks whose conduct was so questionable it was difficult to separate the men from the boys in more ways than can be comfortably related here?

Well...yes, you're at least their moral equals. :think:
 

Traditio

BANNED
Banned
That means if the Lord Jesus Christ said show mercy to adulteresses, you cannot execute or beat them.

I see no reason to cite the previous verse. I fully accept that if Jesus says x, then x is true. Unfortunately, at no point did he say that the State is forbidden from punishing adulteresses.

Yes, it is true, he absolved this adulteress, but I don't think that we can extract any greater significance from that.

And for what it's worth, for the millionth time, I fully agree that adultery, in and of itself, should not be seriously punishable, if punishable at all. The Church has always shown great wisdom in exhorting the adulteress to amend her life, and the offended party to forgive his wife and seek reconciliation.

But I'm not talking about simple adultery.

Hosea 4:14 I will not punish your daughters when they play the harlot Or your brides when they commit adultery, For the men themselves go apart with harlots And offer sacrifices with temple prostitutes; So the people without understanding are ruined.​

You cannot punish an adulteress in this dispensation.

1. I don't see anything about "dispensations" in the verse you quoted.

2. I don't see anywhere in this verse where the State is forbidden to punish adulterers.

Again, I wish to point out that adultery was considered a criminal act well after the advent of Christianity, even in Christian Europe.

If she doesn't repent, vengeance is God's, not yours.

It's also the State's by participation.

Y'know: it wields the sword and all.
 

Traditio

BANNED
Banned
Trad, if you're defending striking someone except in self-defense or in defense of someone else in jeopardy, your mistake is only a matter of degree.

Have you read the Law, TH? Moses prescribes striking people in contexts other than self-defense or defense of another all the time. Flogging comes to mind.

To suggest it as a privilege of one sex compounds the error.

I said nothing of the sort. I only said "husband" because I was talking about a particular case I heard about on a murder documentary. If a husband moves his mistress into the house where his wife lives, then yes, I think that it would not be unfitting for the State to permit the wife to shoot them both dead (I omit the word "beat," not to spare the husband the agony, but simply because I feel as though it is unlikely that a wife would have the physical capacity to do so).

That's your yardstick? The conduct of slave owners who crucified Christ? And Greeks whose conduct was so questionable it was difficult to separate the men from the boys in more ways than can be comfortably related here?

Well...yes, you're at least their moral equals. :think:

Say what you want: I'm just saying; if we look at pre-modern thought, I'm on pretty decent ground. Simply dismissing me as biased just won't cut it. I gave arguments.
 

elohiym

Well-known member
I fully accept that if Jesus says x, then x is true. Unfortunately, at no point did he say that the State is forbidden from punishing adulteresses.

The prophet Hosea spoke for Christ, "I will not punish your daughters when they play the harlot or your brides when they commit adultery." If you argue the State is God's agent then they are bound to not punish adulteresses. If they punish adulteresses for God then Hosea 4:14 is broken.
 

Traditio

BANNED
Banned
The prophet Hosea spoke for Christ, "I will not punish your daughters when they play the harlot or your brides when they commit adultery." If you argue the State is God's agent then they are bound to not punish adulteresses. If they punish adulteresses for God then Hosea 4:14 is broken.

1. It's a single verse taken out of context. As I so often insist, I'm simply not interested in playing this "let's trade cherry picked Bible verses game."

2. Even given the verse, it simply doesn't say what you want to. It doesn't say: "From now on, no sovereign State may punish adulteresses and prostitutes, whether they belong to the nation of Israel and Judea or whether they belong to a gentile nation." It says: "I will not punish your daughters," etc., whatever that means.

Furthermore, you think prostitution should be legal?
 
Top