Why Jews Don't Accept Jesus?

[Ben Masada]

Why Jews Don't Accept Jesus?

1 - You're the one who believes the god can't raise or wake the dead. You can't argue against hedonism, if this is so. For Paul says later in the next verse,
2 - 1Corinthians 15:33 Be not deceived: Evil communications corrupt good manners.
3 - Or rather, they corrupt the virtues the manners by the communications the unhealthy ones.
4 - Why would god bother making a man if he didn't care,
5 - knowing he would have to deny him everlasting life in his natural form?
6 He didn't want to doom man to a sightless existence, without an afterlife.
7 - Modern Judaism says he had no backup plan.

1 - I have told you this and I tell you just one more time: The Lord can do every thing and any thing He wants but one: The thing you wish He did or should have done.

2 - I believe so too. That's why your communications have been corrupted.

3 - I don't know what you are talking about.

4 - The Lord cares about a man while he is alive. Once dead, he no longer has any thing to be cared for. (Mark 12:27)

5 - The Lord cannot deny what He did not promise. Already from the very beginning, He made it very clear that man could not live forever. (Gen. 3:22,23) So, He is denying nothing. Did you read I Cor. 15:32? Probably you are frustrated to have found out that bodily resurrection was a trick in the gospel of Paul to add adepts to his church.

6 - Why have an existence in the afterlife? Did you have an existence in the past life? We came from the dust and to the dust we all go and this is forever. (Eccles. 12:7) There is no other way.

7 - Please, do not state any thing about Judaism if you don't have any nohow to document what you say!

 

[SabathMoon]

1 - I have told you this and I tell you just one more time: The Lord can do every thing and any thing He wants but one: The thing you wish He did or should have done.

2 - I believe so too. That's why your communications have been corrupted.

You corrupt virtue by saying god doesn't raise dead. It is an unjust misrepresentation.

3 - I don't know what you are talking about.

The problem is that you don't know what you are talking about.

4 - The Lord cares about a man while he is alive. Once dead, he no longer has any thing to be cared for. (Mark 12:27)

Wrong, he has to remember the dead man, so that the dead man can the dead man's memories. I takes less effort for the god, not to wait.

5 - The Lord cannot deny what He did not promise. Already from the very beginning, He made it very clear that man could not live forever. (Gen. 3:22,23) So, He is denying nothing. Did you read I Cor. 15:32? Probably you are frustrated to have found out that bodily resurrection was a trick in the gospel of Paul to add adepts to his church.

Stop evading the issue. There is no such thing happening in 1 Corinthinians 15:32. I could argue Judaism is a argument for hedonism. God [edit. in judaism] doesn't raise the dead, nor punish the wicked when they have died. He just sits on his butt and gives man instincts. That is lame.

6 - Why have an existence in the afterlife? Did you have an existence in the past life? We came from the dust and to the dust we all go and this is forever. (Eccles. 12:7) There is no other way.

Do you even know entropy requires that a human's spirit return to the Most High?

7 - Please, do not state any thing about Judaism if you don't have any nohow to document what you say!

Then perhaps you should stop pretending to represent Judaism, or even religion; since you believe only in an unjust and future afterlife.

 

[Ben Masada]

Why Jews Don't Accept Jesus?

1 - Stop evading the issue. There is no such thing happening in 1 Corinthinians 15:32. I could argue Judaism is a argument for hedonism.

2 - God doesn't raise the dead, nor punish the wicked when they have died. He just sits on his butt and gives man instincts. That is lame.

3 - Do you even know entropy requires that a human's spirit return to the Most High?

4 - Then perhaps you should stop pretending to represent Judaism, or even religion; since you believe only in an unjust and future afterlife.

1 - I have a feeling that you don't have a Bible or are too lazy to read it. Here is I Cor. 15:32. "...If the dead rise not, let us eat and drink for to morrow we die." It means that Paul would behave piously but only if the dead rose. This is to act like a dog for treat to behave well. Simply. That's simply ridiculous!

2 - This is pure nonsense. How could the dead be punished? Can the dead be caused pain? Wake up my friend! You are missing reality. This is Century 21st.

3 - Spirit here, is only an embellishment for the breath of life which was breathed into the nostrils of man when HaShem formed man from the dust of the earth. (Gen. 2:7) Even "return to God" is an embellishment for "gone with the wind."

4 - Tell me something. After a hard day in the farm, what does the farmer desires the most at the end of the day, not a full night sleep on a nice bed? How could an endless night of undisturbed sleep be unjust in the afterlife? You are showing to be worse than Paul in I Cor. 15:32.

 

[SabathMoon]

1 - I have a feeling that you don't have a Bible or are too lazy to read it. Here is I Cor. 15:32. "...If the dead rise not, let us eat and drink for to morrow we die." It means that Paul would behave piously but only if the dead rose. This is to act like a dog for treat to behave well. Simply. That's simply ridiculous!

It is perfectly logical. The dead will never rise; thus why not experience the joy of murder. Morality is just an illusion in a such context.

2 - This is pure nonsense. How could the dead be punished? Can the dead be caused pain? Wake up my friend! You are missing reality. This is Century 21st.

You just don't understand YHWH, my friend. Those dead and wicked are punished by him. This is not hard to understand.

3 - Spirit here, is only an embellishment for the breath of life which was breathed into the nostrils of man when HaShem formed man from the dust of the earth. (Gen. 2:7) Even "return to God" is an embellishment for "gone with the wind."

OH, you think it is a metaphor, and metaphors didn't exist in that way back then.

4 - Tell me something. After a hard day in the farm, what does the farmer desires the most at the end of the day, not a full night sleep on a nice bed? How could an endless night of undisturbed sleep be unjust in the afterlife? You are showing to be worse than Paul in I Cor. 15:32.

Better question -- how can one sleep without a body? I never claimed to be as good or better than Paul.

 

[Ben Masada]

Why Jews don't Accept Jesus?

Why Jews don't Accept Jesus?

1 - It is perfectly logical. The dead will never rise; thus why not experience the joy of murder. Morality is just an illusion in a such context.

2 - You just don't understand YHWH, my friend. Those dead and wicked are punished by him. This is not hard to understand.

3 - OH, you think it is a metaphor, and metaphors didn't exist in that way back then.

4 - Better question -- how can one sleep without a body? I never claimed to be as good or better than Paul.

1 - Only psychopaths find joy in murder.

2 - The Lord punishes no one. The wicked ones are punished by themselves according to the law of cause & effect.

3 - Metaphors always existed. The problem is with the reader that does not understand when it is metaphorical or not.

4 - See what I mean? You seem not to understand the difference between metaphorical and literal languages.

 

[SabathMoon]

1 - Only psychopaths find joy in murder.

The word would be sociopath. Aw, but the challenge of killing other people. It must be invigorating, and since God doesn't do anything to raise the dead, I certainly don't want other good people to ruin my earthly lords of money.

2 - The Lord punishes no one. The wicked ones are punished by themselves according to the law of cause & effect.

He always did. Why did he stop doing it? ...if he did stop doing it.

3 - Metaphors always existed. The problem is with the reader that does not understand when it is metaphorical or not.

True, metaphors as comparisons, not idioms. The problem is always the reader even if the text can not be understood.

4 - See what I mean? You seem not to understand the difference between metaphorical and literal languages.

I guess there is not debate here.

 

[Wick Stick]

1 - Only psychopaths find joy in murder.

Psychopaths don't experience joy, or any other emotion. That's what makes them capable of murder.

Jarrod

 

[Ben Masada]

Psychopaths don't experience joy, or any other emotion. That's what makes them capable of murder.

Jarrod

Wrong WS, in fact just this last week I watched a chapter of "Law and Order" a special kind of detective program and a Psychiatrist spoke about the joy experienced by Psychopaths in their cycle murdering.

 

[Elia]

The reason why the Jews didn't believe in Christ was because they were not His Sheep John 10:26!

Bs"d

The reason is that he didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies.

For the finer details look here in chapter 3: http://Mountzion.notlong.com

 

[beloved57]

Bs"d

The reason is that he didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies.

For the finer details look here in chapter 3: http://Mountzion.notlong.com

I just told you the reason John 10:26!

 

[Elia]

I just told you the reason John 10:26!

Bs"d

I'm a sheep of the one and only true God Y-H-W-H, and not of anybody else.

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[beloved57]

Bs"d

I'm a sheep of the one and only true God Y-H-W-H, and not of anybody else.

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Do you believe the Gospel which is set forth in what now a days is called Tulip ?

 

[iason]

http://www.jewsforjudaism.ca/multim...wer-a-christian-missionary---transcript-notes

 

[Elia]

http://www.jewsforjudaism.ca/multim...wer-a-christian-missionary---transcript-notes

Bs"d

Why the Jews don't believe in the New Testament:

http://MountZion.notlong.com

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[aikido7]

1 - Right Aikido, John never wrote a word of the NT.

The John of the Fourth Gospel was not the John who was Jesus's brother in Jerusalem, was no the John who was an original follower, nor was he John of Patmos who wrote Revelation.

When Peter and John were preaching the gospel of Jesus in Jerusalem the assembly took them as two unlearned and ignorant men. What's the difference between "unlearned/ignorant men" from illiterate ones? So, unlearned, ignorant or illiterate men do not write books.

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Peter and John walked with the authentic figure of Jesus. "Learned and ignorant" can be seen as "faithful and unfaithful," "readers or illiterate" and many other dichotomy.

When two people or groups that are in conflict, it is normal for one or both sides to deem the other as "those other evil people" while those on "our side" are the good and the faithful.

Oh gosh! I can't believe it! I have just written above and you don't know what I am referring to! I said, "When Peter and John were preaching the gospel of Jesus... I was referring to Peter and John and not Paul. I couldn't refer to Paul, who probably had a degree from the Stoic University of Tarsus. How could he be illiterate? Read again Acts 4:13.

You are probably correct in your recognition of my empty-headedness.

Peter and John spoke from real-world experience as part of Jesus's band of early followers. Paul seems to care less about Jesus's earthly mission. His theology was all about attaching a theological meaning over Jesus's life to help him and his listeners and readers to understand the historical event more deeply and hopefully more easier.

So, the early Church was based on unhistorical facts! Well, you are not too far from the truth.

If I ever said this, I was mistaken. History comes first, then comes the oral traditions that interpreted the history and then these traditions become fixed theology and dogma.

It is all based on Jesus, even though subsequent understandings and interpretations of him eventually became the man-made faith of Christianity.

2 - No, they did not see Jesus as the Messiah. The idea that Jesus was the Messiah was fabricated by Paul about 30 years later when in a letter to Timothy, Paul revealed the secret that Jesus was of the lineage of David and that he had resurrected was of his - Paul's gospel - It means that there must have existed another gospel at the same time in whose agenda, Jesus was not preached as the Messiah neither that he had resurrected. And I became sure of it when I read II Cor. 11:4-6, 13. And the Pauline secret revealed to his disciple Timothy is in II Tim. 2:8. When the gospels were written, all these doctrines were already down in the letters of Paul to the churches.

The "Sayings Gospels" of Q and Thomas have nothing about the passion, the crucifixion or the resurrection. They have been dated to the earliest time of about 150 AD after Jesus's death.

Jesus was not the Jewish Messiah. If you read Prophet Habakkuk 3:13 "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His anointed one." That's what the Messiah is, the anointed one of the Lord, aka Israel His People.

The tradition of a Messiah did not include his death as a common criminal.

This is why the resurrection became such a novel way to make the scandal of Jesus's death into a victory.

I still hold that "the best scholars, in my opinion, put their methodology and conjectures up front for peer review and public view."

The study and recording of history follows certain specific methods. For instance, the historian finds that both Jesus and Caesar Augustus were divine, Gods or Sons of God. And both were born of virgins and both were literally declared "Savior of the World."

These facts are all that an objective historian would say. Those who operate from a faith-based Christian stance would say that Jesus is God but Caesar ain't. But this stance is not actually objective history. It is a faith interpretation of what happened historically.

...Christianity was born as a result of Hellenistic minds as Paul was from birth the descendant of a well-to-do Hellenistic couple in the city of Tarsus in the Cilicia where he learned in the Platonic Stoic University of Tarsus. Hence he was expert enough to vandalize the Tanach by plagiarizing the Jewish text to enhance the Theology of his Church in Antioch. (Acts 11:26)

The early Christian faith grew up in a Roman/Greek environment. It is natural and logical that both views changed a bit because of their contact with each other.


I am sorry to say I am getting tired and losing my focus. I wish I felt as good as a bushy-tailed squirrel but I have to stop now.

Thanks for your thoughtful replies. I always get a lot of different ideas from your posts.

 

[SabathMoon]

The reason is that he didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies.

You mean he didn't fulfill the 2000-[year] false and Jewish messianic prophecies.

 

[Elia]

You mean he didn't fulfill the 2000 false and Jewish messianic prophecies.

Bs'd

I mean: He didn't fulfil the authentic messianic prophecies as they are written by Gods prophets in the Hebrew Bible.

Let me spell it out for you:

From this page, chapter 3: http://MountZion.notlong.com

Micha 5:2-9; "But thou Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel. And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for NOW shall he be great unto the ends of the earth. And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men. And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders. And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the LORD, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men. And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down, and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver. Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off."

Here we have very clearly physical redemption from earthly enemies: "And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword", "Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off." These are very clear verses that can not be misinterpreted; when the messiah comes the Jewish enemies are going to be slaughtered. And the one coming forth from Bethlehem is to be a ruler in Israel, that is a king, or maybe nowadays a president, but not a wandering preacher and miracle healer.

Zacheriah 9:9-10; "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ***, and upon a colt the foal of an ***. And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth."

They say that he did ride on a donkey, like the whole Middle East in those days, but that is where it stops. He did not bring any peace, the battle bow, the horses and the chariots, symbols of war, were not cut off from Jerusalem, and his dominion was not from sea to sea and to the ends of the earth; as a matter of fact, he did not have any dominion at all.

In order to get around this problem, the Christian church invented the "second coming". However, nowhere in the Hebrew scriptures is it written that the messiah would come once, get himself killed, and come again in a second coming. This is a pure rationalization of Jesus' failure to function in any way as a messiah. Nowhere in any of the above prophecies does it indicate that there will be a gap of at least 2000 years between the birth of the messiah and the redemption. Nowhere does it speak about a messiah being tortured to death and coming back thousands of years later.

Jeremiah 23:5-6; "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS."

Jeremiah 33:14-16: "IN THOSE DAYS AND AT THAT TIME, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land. IN THOSE DAYS shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness."

When the branch of righteousness springs forth to David, when the messiah comes, THEN, IN THOSE DAYS, Judah will be saved and Jerusalem shall dwell safely. That means that it is impossible to squeeze in two thousand or more years between the coming of the messiah and the redemption of Judah and Jerusalem. Out goes the 'second coming'. However, there wasn't any redemption in the days of Jesus. Forty years after his death, in 70 CE, Jerusalem was totally destroyed by the Romans, the second Temple was burned down, and the Jews exiled. No way that the above prophecy was fulfilled.

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Isaiah 11; "And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins. The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious."

Also here we have a messiah who is going to kill the evil people: "And he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked." And after that we get the better world, when it says: "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them etc." This is what is supposed to happen, as soon as there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse (the father of King David) and a Branch shall grow out of his roots; that is as soon as the messiah comes. Nowhere here is mentioned that the messiah will be killed and that these prophecies will happen at least 2000 years later. On the contrary; when the messiah comes redemption comes. And also for this messianic prophecy you don't have to be a brain surgeon or a rocket scientist in order to see that it is not fulfilled. Nothing of this all was done by Jesus. Conclusion: He was not the messiah.
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[SabathMoon]

Excuse me, he didn't fulfill 1900 year old false Rabbinic Jewish prophecies. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand, thy king messiah is a BarKochba not born of a virgin. And the Levite messiah is an Akiba who accomplishes nothing.

I should have happened within 100 years, not 1900 years. Thy messiahs will never happen again.

 

[Ben Masada]

Why Jews don't Accept Jesus?

Why Jews don't Accept Jesus?

Excuse me, he didn't fulfill 1900 year old false Rabbinic Jewish prophecies. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand, thy king messiah is a BarKochba not born of a virgin. And the Levite messiah is an Akiba who accomplishes nothing.

I should have happened within 100 years, not 1900 years. Thy messiahs will never happen again.

SM, would you be so kind as to tell me what did Jesus accomplish? I am all ears. And, please, add to that a quote to evidence the fact that Jesus was born of a virgin. But please, a virgin that remained a virgin after she gave birth to Jesus. If you can't, the only option will be John 8:41. Read that quote of John before you say you can't prove that Jesus was born of a virgin.

Now, as the Messiah is concerned, you can take your question to a Jew who still believes in an individual Messiah. The Messiah I believe is the collective one in the People of Israel. And I am not alone with this belief. You can verify with Prophet Habakkuk in 3:13 "The Lord goes forth to save His PEOPLE; to save His anointed one." That's what Messiah is, the anointed one of HaShem.

 

[Ben Masada]

Why Jews don't Accept Jesus?

Why Jews don't Accept Jesus?

1 - The John of the Fourth Gospel was not the John who was Jesus's brother in Jerusalem, was no the John who was an original follower, nor was he John of Patmos who wrote Revelation.

2 - When two people or groups that are in conflict, it is normal for one or both sides to deem the other as "those other evil people" while those on "our side" are the good and the faithful.

3 - It is all based on Jesus, even though subsequent understandings and interpretations of him eventually became the man-made faith of Christianity.

4 - The tradition of a Messiah did not include his death as a common criminal.

5 - This is why the resurrection became such a novel way to make the scandal of Jesus's death into a victory.

6 - The study and recording of history follows certain specific methods. For instance, the historian finds that both Jesus and Caesar Augustus were divine, Gods or Sons of God. And both were born of virgins and both were literally declared "Savior of the World."

7 - Thanks for your thoughtful replies. I always get a lot of different ideas from your posts.

1 - I am aware that he was a Hellenist whose gospel was attributed to John the apostle for apostolic credibility to the Church. Probably the Fathers of the Church were responsible for that pious forgery.

2 - I know; just according to preconceived notions.

3 - I am rather of the mind that Christianity is based on the Theology of Paul and not that of Jesus which was Judaism.

4 - I would say, "did not include his death at all" since the Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jer. 31:35-37)

5 - Thanks to Paul.

6 - Are you implying in other words that Jesus was copied from Caesar? You could be right, considering that the Fathers of the Church needed the election of Christianity as the official religion of the Empire by Emperor Constantine in 312 ACE.

7 - I also like to read you as we are not too far from each other. Don't birds of a feather flock together?