Why I Don't Believe in Calvinism or Predestination

[rougueone]

Instead of stating the above (title or not), you should clarify that it's not predestination according to the Bible that you don't believe in, but the doctrine of predestination in Calvinism or according to Calvinism because to say that you don't believe in predestination puts you at odds with the word of God as we are predestinated unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself.

(see also Rom 8:28-30 KJV)

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Ephesians 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

And in Whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will:

Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Ephesians 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Bottom line is as you stated Heir.

because to say that you don't believe in predestination puts you at odds with the word of God as we are predestinated unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself.

Bulls eye Heir. And if one "doubts" predestination" then they may be better off re examining their own purpose about Jesus, starting with Genesis through Revelations. The entire focus of the Spoken-written word of our Lord, Jesus is essentially all based on " Predestination". The theme of Scripture is predestination .

Those who are indeed Christians are chosen. And people who have a problem with this have problems with God. Perhaps they doubt, perhaps they hold a "doubting Thomas Spiirt". I don't know. I was chosen. I did not "FIND GOD". God found me. GOD chose me. I did not choose GOD.

Examples: KJV,

But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, - See more at:

"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; ( CHOOSES ) ,and I will raise him up on the last day

Galatians 1:1 “Paul, an apostle—not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead.”
Colossians 1:1 “Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God.”
First Corinthians 1:1 “Paul, called by the will of God to be an apostle of Christ Jesus.”

And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called ( CHOSEN) ,according to His purpose.

For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand ( PREDESTINED ) ,so that we would walk in them.


also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,

Romans 8:29--30... For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren. And these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified



John 15:16
John 6:37

"For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth. DEUT. 7:6

"For many are called, but few are chosen."


There are so many satanically driven sanctions against Jesus and HIS people it would be frightening had not we been warned these day's would occur. Mid Acts, Paulinist, Ameniallist (?) , Trinitarians, ET....All by people who are themselves boxed in by the dark spirits who work to devour anyone. by any means available.

Good post Heir. Amen. Holy Spirit blesses us through Heir.

 

[Robert Pate]

But you say that Jesus is the savior of the world, and that world is every human being, so logically, all are saved [or Jesus is not the savior of the world].

Actually, Reformed folk do not have a problem with Romans 10:13. We would take issue with your idea about who will call upon the name of the Lord.

The Bible teaches that Jesus is the savior of the whole world, 1 John 2:2, 1 John 4:14, John 12:47, John 4:42, John 3:17.

To deny that Jesus is the savior of the world is to deny the Gospel.

In the Gospel Jesus defeats sin, death and the devil and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

To deny that Jesus has defeated sin, death and the devil is to deny that Jesus is Lord.

To deny the Gospel and to deny that Jesus is Lord, means that you are not a Christian, plain and simple.

 

[Robert Pate]

If God chooses some to salvation and damns the rest to hell then you have an unjust God.

If God is unjust then that means that God is a sinner.

If God is a sinner then we can't trust him.

 

[rougueone]

A Christian.

A Bible believing, Gospel embraceing, justified by faith alone, Christian.

Ok then Robert. Well said.
Now how did you come to such faith? How did you realize the Scriptures were God's spoken-written word ?
How did you know the truth as you stated " justified by faith alone, Christian.

You were chosen by God. To know these truths.

This does not make you a student of Calvinism. It makes you a person whom upon Gods will, to choose you, ( as God does to all people ), to know salvation by faith alone. To know you are a Christian.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

You cannot contend with these men, Grosnick.

I contend ("strive to overcome") with them regularly and with all the saints that have come before us, taking every word captive for the glory of God, of course (1 Cor. 10:5).

We should not be so full of chronological snobbery to assume we moderns know more than men who were indwelt by the same Spirit that indwells us today. It is sad to see not a few herein who rest comfortably in their own superficial knowledge of this or that, then setting about parroting others of the same ilk, all the while refusing to steep themselves in gaining deeper knowledge of those whom they caricature, mining the potential treasures that lie within. I suppose this sort of behavior makes for entertainment, tickles itching ears, and satisfies one's desire to be seen, but I prefer a more studied approach to weighty matters of the faith we hold dear.

I do engage the Scriptures daily, and I am daily changed by them. I also remain convinced of the wisdom of the forefathers that came before us when I read what they have written and compare their writings to Scripture. It seems not a month or two goes by that someone somewhere decides they have a new view, new perspective, or new interpretation related to the fundamentals of our faith; despite these fundamentals having withstood the test of time and painful examination for many, many, hundreds of years.

Thus I become very concerned about discussions that start to challenge these fundamentals. For those who see themselves as theological sophisticates, I would hope and pray that these persons seek a more irenic approach, rather than trying to be innovative. I recognize that within theological circles it seems that only if one is radical or a trail-blazer that they garner attention. But the constant plowing up of new ground is not what I see as the task of theological discourse. Indeed, I am very content to step back, ponder, and be satisfied to walk in the same steps of those who have come before me—those who have mapped out the road ahead such that we may avoid tripping over the rocks along the well-worn path. In fact, being more willing to do so is what is needed today, versus demonstrations to others how wonderful one's insightful exegesis, logic, or sophisticated reasoning may be.

AMR

 

[Totton Linnet]

If God chooses some to salvation and damns the rest to hell then you have an unjust God.

If God is unjust then that means that God is a sinner.

If God is a sinner then we can't trust him.

This tired minded lazy good for nothingism

too lazy to study what the scriptures actually teach......

 

[beloved57]

If God chooses some to salvation and damns the rest to hell then you have an unjust God.
If God is unjust then that means that God is a sinner.

If God is a sinner then we can't trust him.

Evil speaking against the True God since He has chosen some for Heaven and some for hell and damnation !

 

[Robert Pate]

Ok then Robert. Well said.
Now how did you come to such faith? How did you realize the Scriptures were God's spoken-written word ?
How did you know the truth as you stated " justified by faith alone, Christian.

You were chosen by God. To know these truths.

This does not make you a student of Calvinism. It makes you a person whom upon Gods will, to choose you, ( as God does to all people ), to know salvation by faith alone. To know you are a Christian.

The Holy Spirit called me and I answered by saying yes.

I could have resisted, but I chose not to.

God does not impose salvation on any one, Hebrews 3:15.

 

[Robert Pate]

This tired minded lazy good for nothingism

too lazy to study what the scriptures actually teach......

The scriptures teach that God is holy, just, merciful and righteous and is not willing that any should perish.

What does your Bible teach?

 

[Robert Pate]

I contend ("strive to overcome") with them regularly and with all the saints that have come before us, taking every word captive for the glory of God, of course (1 Cor. 10:5).

We should not be so full of chronological snobbery to assume we moderns know more than men who were indwelt by the same Spirit that indwells us today. It is sad to see not a few herein who rest comfortably in their own superficial knowledge of this or that, then setting about parroting others of the same ilk, all the while refusing to steep themselves in gaining deeper knowledge of those whom they caricature, mining the potential treasures that lie within. I suppose this sort of behavior makes for entertainment, tickles itching ears, and satisfies one's desire to be seen, but I prefer a more studied approach to weighty matters of the faith we hold dear.

I do engage the Scriptures daily, and I am daily changed by them. I also remain convinced of the wisdom of the forefathers that came before us when I read what they have written and compare their writings to Scripture. It seems not a month or two goes by that someone somewhere decides they have a new view, new perspective, or new interpretation related to the fundamentals of our faith; despite these fundamentals having withstood the test of time and painful examination for many, many, hundreds of years.

Thus I become very concerned about discussions that start to challenge these fundamentals. For those who see themselves as theological sophisticates, I would hope and pray that these persons seek a more irenic approach, rather than trying to be innovative. I recognize that within theological circles it seems that only if one is radical or a trail-blazer that they garner attention. But the constant plowing up of new ground is not what I see as the task of theological discourse. Indeed, I am very content to step back, ponder, and be satisfied to walk in the same steps of those who have come before me—those who have mapped out the road ahead such that we may avoid tripping over the rocks along the well-worn path. In fact, being more willing to do so is what is needed today, versus demonstrations to others how wonderful one's insightful exegesis, logic, or sophisticated reasoning may be.

AMR

Your doctrine should be... "The Gospel plus nothing".

Instead you seem to think that it is all about you.

 

[Brother Ducky]

If God chooses some to salvation and damns the rest to hell then you have an unjust God.

Certainly one of your stock , unsupported, thesis statements. Why don't you make a logical Biblical case for your statement. Be sure to factor in the fact that all is his to do with as he pleases.

 

[Totton Linnet]

The scriptures teach that God is holy, just, merciful and righteous and is not willing that any should perish.

What does your Bible teach?

The Lord the Lord a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, keeping steadfast love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin


...but who will by no means clear the guilty.

We believe very simply that God always knew who those guilty were. Nor can you or anyone show where God predestined their guiltiness.

But we can and do show where He predestined and chose US to be in Christ.

 

[Robert Pate]

Certainly one of your stock , unsupported, thesis statements. Why don't you make a logical Biblical case for your statement. Be sure to factor in the fact that all is his to do with as he pleases.

Of course you are wrong.

God cannot and will not violate his holy, just, merciful and righteous nature.

 

[Robert Pate]

The Lord the Lord a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, keeping steadfast love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin


...but who will by no means clear the guilty.

We believe very simply that God always knew who those guilty were. Nor can you or anyone show where God predestined their guiltiness.

But we can and do show where He predestined and chose US to be in Christ.

God chose all of humanity in Jesus Christ.

Was it not Jesus Christ that reconciled the whole world unto God?

 

[Brother Ducky]

Of course you are wrong.

God cannot and will not violate his holy, just, merciful and righteous nature.

Well you might be correct, but I doubt it. However, why should I take your unsupported word for it? All you have to do is make a logical and Biblical case for your position.

And I certainly do agree with your second statement, however I think you do not understand what God can do and not violate his nature.

 

[beloved57]

God chose all of humanity in Jesus Christ.

Was it not Jesus Christ that reconciled the whole world unto God?

Invalid comments not supported by one scripture!

 

[Robert Pate]

Invalid comments not supported by one scripture!

How about 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

You have been reconciled unto God, NOT predestinated.

Not only did God reconcile you unto himself by Jesus Christ, he reconciled the whole world unto himself by Jesus Christ.

 

[beloved57]

How about 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

You have been reconciled unto God, NOT predestinated.

Not only did God reconcile you unto himself by Jesus Christ, he reconciled the whole world unto himself by Jesus Christ.

See my threads on 2 Cor 5:18-19 ! They apply to Gods Elect World!

 

[Robert Pate]

See my threads on 2 Cor 5:18-19 ! They apply to Gods Elect World!

Wht should I read your threads?

The Bible says that God has reconciled the world unto himself by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

All that your threads are going to say is that the word "World" means the world of the elect. Which is a lie.

 

[j4jesus09]

Wht should I read your threads?

The Bible says that God has reconciled the world unto himself by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

All that your threads are going to say is that the word "World" means the world of the elect. Which is a lie.

I really do enjoy these discussions. In a dark world discussing scripture can be the most enjoyable activity. It seems everyone believes they are right. My thought is if God has reconciled something to himself wouldn't that something be reconciled period. Woudn't the statement be invalid, if God reconciled the world as claimed then the world wouldn't be totally reconciled? It appears that the world literally will not be totally reconciled according to believing everyone will not be saved. When two people seperate and divorce it is considered reconciliation if the two join together. Doesn't it take two? So if God reconciled the world then one, it either will be totally reconciled as he said he did, or two it can't be referring to everyone. If we examine the scriptures what do we find it to say?