Why I Don't Believe in Calvinism or Predestination

[heir]

You apparently do not understand the Gospel.

If you did you would know that God chose all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ. There is no individual election.

The only one that has been predestinated is Jesus Christ. He was predestinated to be the new Adam and the savior of the whole world.

The only way that anyone can be saved is by faith in Jesus Christ.

We are adopted into Jesus Christ by faith alone.

God does NOTHING outside of Jesus Christ. No predestinating, No choosing, If you want to be saved you will have to come to Christ as a repentant sinner.

"Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

Robert, you are not being truthful about what saith the scripture concerning our being predestinated. Also, I have never once implied that one need not believe something to be saved nor am I a Calvinist as I believe 1 Timothy 2:4-6 KJV. Figure that one out while you overreact in ignorance. LOL

 

[Robert Pate]

Robert, you are not being truthful about what saith the scripture concerning our being predestinated. Also, I have never once implied that one need not believe something to be saved nor am I a Calvinist as I believe 1 Timothy 2:4-6 KJV. Figure that one out while you overreact in ignorance. LOL

We are predestinated to be conformed to the image of Christ.

We are predestinated to be the children of God.

That was God's plan for the human race.

But there is no scripture about anyone being predestinated to heaven or to hell.

 

[Robert Pate]

Which "the gospel" are you referring to?

There is only one Gospel.

It is the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

 

[heir]

There is only one Gospel.

Is, presently, yes, but many in the Bible.

 

[heir]

We are predestinated to be conformed to the image of Christ.

We are predestinated to be the children of God.

Agreed!

But there is no scripture about anyone being predestinated to heaven or to hell.

I certainly never said there was! That's you reading Calvinism into the term predestinated. You are hypersensitive to the word even though it's a good biblical one. Not everyone who believes we are predestinated according the scriptures is a Calvinist, but that's how you read us all. You lump the Bible believer in with those who rebel against 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV. You shouldn't do that.

 

[Robert Pate]

Agreed!


I certainly never said there was! That's you reading Calvinism into the term predestinated. You are hypersensitive to the word even though it's a good biblical one. Not everyone who believes we are predestinated according the scriptures is a Calvinist, but that's how you read us all. You lump the Bible believer in with those who rebel against 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV. You shouldn't do that.

The word "predestinated" which is usually used by Calvinist and seldom used by Christians, should always be followed with an explanation, or you will always be labeled a Calvinist.

 

[Cons&Spires]

The word "predestinated" which is usually used by Calvinist and seldom used by Christians, should always be followed with an explanation, or you will always be labeled a Calvinist.

The original Protestant churches all hold to predestination. If you want free will theology, you might try Methodism.

The divergent churches of the reformation all initially held to it. It was the basis in theology against that of the Church's.

 

[Robert Pate]

The original Protestant churches all hold to predestination. If you want free will theology, you might try Methodism.

The divergent churches of the reformation all initially held to it. It was the basis in theology against that of the Church's.

The "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ refutes the idea that God predestinates people to salvation.

God does nothing outside of his Son Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:15, 16, 17, 18, 19.

 

[Brother Ducky]

If you want to be saved you will have to become a "Whosoever".

"Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

But you say that Jesus is the savior of the world, and that world is every human being, so logically, all are saved [or Jesus is not the savior of the world].

Actually, Reformed folk do not have a problem with Romans 10:13. We would take issue with your idea about who will call upon the name of the Lord.

 

[Cons&Spires]

The "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ refutes the idea that God predestinates people to salvation.

God does nothing outside of his Son Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:15, 16, 17, 18, 19.

Except it doesn't. TULIP does a remarkable job of consolidating the Gospel altogether- it is why it was so successful to begin with.
Calvin was no novice of scripture. Like Luther, he had an incredible mind for it. I daresay they might even make us look like babbling fools if they should ever join one of these debates- these are the men who blew the cap off the entire object of Catholicism wholesale.

 

[Brother Ducky]

The word "predestinated" which is usually used by Calvinist and seldom used by Christians, should always be followed with an explanation, or you will always be labeled a Calvinist.

So, you are back to your Calvinists can't be Christian?????????

 

[heir]

Except it doesn't. TULIP does a remarkable job of consolidating the Gospel altogether- it is why it was so successful to begin with.
Calvin was no novice of scripture. Like Luther, he had an incredible mind for it. I daresay they might even make us look like babbling fools if they should ever join one of these debates- these are the men who blew the cap off the entire object of Catholicism wholesale.

What is the gospel of your salvation? You keep talking about TULIP yet cannot say what is the gospel of your salvation. Paul writes that IT (the gospel of Christ) is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth. What is IT?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Except it doesn't. TULIP does a remarkable job of consolidating the Gospel altogether- it is why it was so successful to begin with.
Calvin was no novice of scripture. Like Luther, he had an incredible mind for it. I daresay they might even make us look like babbling fools if they should ever join one of these debates- these are the men who blew the cap off the entire object of Catholicism wholesale.

Calvin was good at having certain "Heretics" killed as well! Over 50
during his "Reign of Terror." Known as, "The Pope of Geneva."

 

[Cons&Spires]

Calvin was good at having certain "Heretics" killed as well! Over 50
during his "Reign of Terror." Known as, "The Pope of Geneva."

Blood was cheap in the Medieval and Late Ages. I can guarantee twice as many Calvinists were killed.
You just don't hear much about that because between Henry and the Pope, it was simply the law.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Blood was cheap in the Medieval and Late Ages. I can guarantee twice as many Calvinists were killed.
You just don't hear much about that because between Henry and the Pope, it was simply the law.

So we should cut Calvin a break huh?

 

[Cons&Spires]

So we should cut Calvin a break huh?

Perhaps. Do you know how dangerous the people he put to death were?

 

[RevTestament]

Perhaps. Do you know how dangerous the people he put to death were?

As dangerous as Barak Hussein Obama?

 

[Cons&Spires]

As dangerous as Barak Hussein Obama?

The Catholic Church was a very dangerous entity to anyone who opposed it during the time.
Calvin tended to his influence for a good long time, and rooted out these people in Geneva.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Calvin was good at having certain "Heretics" killed as well! Over 50
during his "Reign of Terror." Known as, "The Pope of Geneva."

If you could produce credible historical data to support this I would be interested in reviewing the same.

In the meantime, I can point you to an accurate treatment:

http://heidelblog.net/2013/04/the-calvin-as-tyrant-meme-2/

My stock answer to the often made "Calvin is a murderer" meme, especially as relates to Servetus...

My personal view is that Calvin, as a pastor in Geneva, should have been more public about the verdict, calling for mercy, etc. That said, I doubt that this would have accomplished much, given the political climate at the time.

Anyone who thinks the Reformed faithful consider Calvin, Luther, etc., to be a perfect man is mistaken. There has been only one perfect man, the God-man Jesus Christ.

Two sources on the matter:
Calvin College - Meeter Center - The Michael Servetus Controversy

Thirdmill Answer Servetus

I realize it is easy to mimic the usual anti-Calvin cavils one finds on internet discussion sites. It is much more difficult to dig into the historical records and come to a more informed view. :AMR:

Barring the quest to avoid being intellectually lazy, I suppose the following will suffice...

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AMR

 

[Cons&Spires]

You cannot contend with these men, Grosnick.