Why Homosexuality MUST Be Recriminalized! Part 3

[Christian Liberty]

I've been turned off to LaBarbera because of aCW's ongoing man-crush on him. I honestly don't know much about him beyond that though, so maybe I should look him up. aCW has been known to occasionally say something good about someone decent (Pat Buchanan and Chuck Baldwin being two examples) so I suppose the pre-judgment isn't exactly fair. I have a hard time getting around that though. I pretty much ignore what he says and who he recommends at this point. There are about 100+ pages of history behind that on this very forum, so I don't really want to rehash it here.

If you don't want things to continue as they have been, here is what you should do:

1. Preach the gospel as often as you can, in its completeness. The gospel is not a political agenda. The gospel is that man is totally depraved and sinful and can do nothing to save himself, so Jesus Christ, the God-man mediator, came to earth to die for the sins of his sheep, namely, those who trust in him alone to save them, that their sins might be paid for and that they might have eternal life.

2. Teach fellow Christians ALL that the Bible says, including its political teachings. 1 Samuel 8 is an excellent starting point. Note that while the Mosaic Penal Law is not applicable today, the basic moral law does not change. This includes striving with men who do not harm you (Proverbs 3:30), being a busybody (1 Peter 4:15), trying to control the sexual sinners of the world (1 Corinthians 5:11), or starting conflicts (Matthew 5:9.) These ethical principles apply to governments, and Christians in government, as well.

3. Don't be afraid to use politics when its useful, but don't marry it either. Don't fear to refuse to cast a vote when all options are bad, or to "waste your vote" when the major 2 options are bad.

4. Teach your children right and wrong. This includes both political ethics AND personal ethics.

5. Don't be a part of the problem by insisting that your particular pet issue is the one time government intervention has to happen. Everyone does it, and everyone wins, hence why we have the massive, out of control government that we have now. Recognize that the free market can do absolutely anything better than the government can.

 

[Arthur Brain]

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3393262&postcount=17

Could you "choose" to start being sexually attracted to your own gender?

I realize you want to think that all gay people have some sort of underlying issue that causes it but for the sake of argument I'd like you to answer this question first.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Could you "choose" to start being sexually attracted to your own gender?

I realize you want to think that all gay people have some sort of underlying issue that causes it but for the sake of argument I'd like you to answer this question first.

Is that consistent with the idea that sexual orientation is a choice?

Or is aCW saying that people choose to sexually molested and so forth?

Don't misunderstand, I believe acting on homosexual inclinations is wrong, but I don't doubt that the inclinations are real.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Liberty
We need to be careful here.

First of all, there are Libertarians and then there are libertarians. You may or may not have noticed that I virtually always use "libertarian", lowercase, even when I gramatically should capitalize for the first word of the sentence.

Big-L Libertarians are often affiliated with the Libertarian Party, and are primarily interested in political solutions. Some of these people are libertarians, while others are not.

In other words:

There are libertarians that are not Libertarians

There are Libertarians that are not libertarians

There are Libertarians that are also libertarians

And then of course there are people who are not Libertarians or libertarians.

I hope that makes sense.

Now, as for the "live and let live" line...

Its iffy, it really is, because it really just depends on what you mean.

Some libertarians have a very "socially tolerant" attitude toward basically anything that doesn't involve violence, and don't really have opinions on much of anything else. This position is certainly compatible with libertarianism, but it isn't a requirement for being a libertarian.

But others don't.

Let's look at one particular issue here. Let's think about prostitution.

There are three general attitudes a libertarian could take toward prostitution (there are probably more, but I'm just simplifying things, bear with me.) Say a libertarian encounters a prostitute:

He could encourage her to keep doing what she's doing.

He could simply have no opinion, her life her choice, kind of that "live and let live" thing you were saying.

Or he could try to discourage her from doing it. Try to persuade her, peacefully, that she shouldn't do what she is doing and that she should do otherwise instead.

Note that options that are not on the table are "beat her up", "physically restrain her" or "call the cops." And, if we exchange "automatic weapon ownership" instead of prostitution, its really the same situation. The morals of the situation are different in my opinion (I don't think owning an automatic weapon is morally wrong, while prostituting oneself is). But a pacifist might disagree with me, and really, the choices are the same. Support the machine gun owner, be indifferent, or peacefully oppose it...

(Boy, it sure sounds like Jr. is being a "busy body" ).
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3965422&postcount=581

Yes, I understand these distinctions; they're not foreigh to me.

No, because of how you've presented these ideas (thoughtfully, in-depth, and with reason) I can't find myself opposed to them...

(I'm beginning to smell a fraud).

I would agree that for homosexuality to be recriminalized, America would have had to, at some point, undergone a drastic, violent transformation. And much good would have been lost; the whole margin of freedom within a democracy -...

Expound on your last sentence please. I'm curious what you mean by the phrase "the whole margin of freedom within a democracy".

While you're at it, explain further on this from an earlier post:

It's not that one wants to police anyone by force. That could never align with American, democratic thinking in any case - and it is not the way to achieve anything great.

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3965386&postcount=572

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3393262&postcount=17

Could you "choose" to start being sexually attracted to your own gender?

After being raised in a healthy environment, and being married to an absolutely gorgeous woman who gave me absolutely beautiful children, you're asking me if I could choose to engage in same sex perversion?

(aCW tries to catch his breath from laughing so hard).

Ummmm... let me ponder on that one for a millisecond Art.

No.

That being said: If I were raised in an unhealthy environment (surrounded by perverts who taught me that perversion was perfectly normal and encouraged me to experiment with it or was molested by one of them), then yes, I could choose to leave that deviant behavior behind.

I realize you want to think that all gay people have some sort of underlying issue that causes it but for the sake of argument I'd like you to answer this question first.

I'm very disappointed Art that more practicing homosexuals haven't come forward in my thread to talk about their past. Lovemeorhateme came forward and talked about being molested as a child and how he believed that had a huge influence on him later engaging in homosexual behavior.
Michael "I'm a great French kisser" Cadry stated that he had a distant father and believes he sought the emotional bond that he didn't get from his father from other males (I think there is more to Mikey's story though).

If you have some thoughts on what causes people to have homosexual desires and act them out via homosex, then I'd be very interested in hearing them.

 

[GFR7]

I've been turned off to LaBarbera because of aCW's ongoing man-crush on him. I honestly don't know much about him beyond that though, so maybe I should look him up. aCW has been known to occasionally say something good about someone decent (Pat Buchanan and Chuck Baldwin being two examples) so I suppose the pre-judgment isn't exactly fair. I have a hard time getting around that though. I pretty much ignore what he says and who he recommends at this point. There are about 100+ pages of history behind that on this very forum, so I don't really want to rehash it here.

If you don't want things to continue as they have been, here is what you should do:

1. Preach the gospel as often as you can, in its completeness. The gospel is not a political agenda. The gospel is that man is totally depraved and sinful and can do nothing to save himself, so Jesus Christ, the God-man mediator, came to earth to die for the sins of his sheep, namely, those who trust in him alone to save them, that their sins might be paid for and that they might have eternal life.

2. Teach fellow Christians ALL that the Bible says, including its political teachings. 1 Samuel 8 is an excellent starting point. Note that while the Mosaic Penal Law is not applicable today, the basic moral law does not change. This includes striving with men who do not harm you (Proverbs 3:30), being a busybody (1 Peter 4:15), trying to control the sexual sinners of the world (1 Corinthians 5:11), or starting conflicts (Matthew 5:9.) These ethical principles apply to governments, and Christians in government, as well.

3. Don't be afraid to use politics when its useful, but don't marry it either. Don't fear to refuse to cast a vote when all options are bad, or to "waste your vote" when the major 2 options are bad.

4. Teach your children right and wrong. This includes both political ethics AND personal ethics.

5. Don't be a part of the problem by insisting that your particular pet issue is the one time government intervention has to happen. Everyone does it, and everyone wins, hence why we have the massive, out of control government that we have now. Recognize that the free market can do absolutely anything better than the government can.

Good and sound advice, and taken well under advisement.

 

[TracerBullet]

I grew up in a healthy environment and because of that my outlook on human sexuality was normal.

just like most gays and lesbians

Quite a few children weren't as fortunate as I was and were sexually molested; didn't have a dad in their home, or had an overbearing mother, thus perverting their outlook on human sexuality.

so where did your perverted outlook come from?

The important thing to remember Art is that people can change from having perverse desires and engaging in this disease ridden behavior that we call homosexuality. This 3 part thread is full of examples.

and the left handed can train themselves to write with their right hand...but they are still left handed

 

[TracerBullet]

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3393262&postcount=17

more made up stuff form Paul Cameron. always impressive

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote:
Originally posted by Christian Liberty

...2. Teach fellow Christians ALL that the Bible says, including its political teachings. 1 Samuel 8 is an excellent starting point. Note that while the Mosaic Penal Law is not applicable today, the basic moral law does not change. This includes striving with men who do not harm you (Proverbs 3:30), being a busybody (1 Peter 4:15), trying to control the sexual sinners of the world (1 Corinthians 5:11), or starting conflicts (Matthew 5:9.) These ethical principles apply to governments, and Christians in government, as well.

Good and sound advice, and taken well under advisement.

You do realize that you could go to a ward for the criminally insane at a State Hospital and have the same kind of conversation you're having here with the Jr. Libertarian don't you GFR?

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3393262&postcount=17

more made up stuff form Paul Cameron. always impressive

What causes homosexuality?
http://downloads.frc.org/EF/EF08L41.pdf

I've been meaning to ask you Traci:

What do you believe causes homosexual desires?

 

[Christian Liberty]

Quote:
Originally posted by Christian Liberty

...2. Teach fellow Christians ALL that the Bible says, including its political teachings. 1 Samuel 8 is an excellent starting point. Note that while the Mosaic Penal Law is not applicable today, the basic moral law does not change. This includes striving with men who do not harm you (Proverbs 3:30), being a busybody (1 Peter 4:15), trying to control the sexual sinners of the world (1 Corinthians 5:11), or starting conflicts (Matthew 5:9.) These ethical principles apply to governments, and Christians in government, as well.



You do realize that you could go to a ward for the criminally insane at a State Hospital and have the same kind of conversation you're having here with the Jr. Libertarian don't you GFR?

 

[Omniskeptical]

If there is no "agenda", why would the US fly the gay flag at it's embassies in London and Tel Aviv?

I have never seen a flag flown for blacks, the disabled, the poor; those born blind or deaf; the autistic, those with Downs Syndrome; seniors, feminists, workers' unions, vegans, animal rights groups, gun control groups, or any other minority.

I am very suspicious of this.

The UN is our dumb embassy which has thought to build its own army someday.

 

[Omniskeptical]

Quote:
Originally posted by Christian Liberty

...2. Teach fellow Christians ALL that the Bible says, including its political teachings. 1 Samuel 8 is an excellent starting point. Note that while the Mosaic Penal Law is not applicable today, the basic moral law does not change. This includes striving with men who do not harm you (Proverbs 3:30), being a busybody (1 Peter 4:15), trying to control the sexual sinners of the world (1 Corinthians 5:11), or starting conflicts (Matthew 5:9.) These ethical principles apply to governments, and Christians in government, as well.



You do realize that you could go to a ward for the criminally insane at a State Hospital and have the same kind of conversation you're having here with the Jr. Libertarian don't you GFR?

The original law was designed for [somebody] killing somebody through sodomy. ACW believes the Old Testament is inerrant, despite the fact the virgin birth is not found in Jeremiah's book of Kings.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

The original law was designed for killing somebody through sodomy. ACW believes the Old Testament is inerrant, despite the fact the virgin birth is not found in Jeremiah's book of Kings.

The punishment phase, which was handed down to the Jews by God, changed with the New Testament. That doesn't mean that those that engage in immoral sexual behavior (homosexuals, adulterers, those involved in incestuous relationships, etc.), shouldn't be punished.

I don't want the Jr. Libertarian to get started on one of his rants, so let's hold off on this topic until I get to the segment entitled:

The 3 tenets of atheism.

 

[GFR7]

Quote:
Originally posted by Christian Liberty

...2. Teach fellow Christians ALL that the Bible says, including its political teachings. 1 Samuel 8 is an excellent starting point. Note that while the Mosaic Penal Law is not applicable today, the basic moral law does not change. This includes striving with men who do not harm you (Proverbs 3:30), being a busybody (1 Peter 4:15), trying to control the sexual sinners of the world (1 Corinthians 5:11), or starting conflicts (Matthew 5:9.) These ethical principles apply to governments, and Christians in government, as well.



You do realize that you could go to a ward for the criminally insane at a State Hospital and have the same kind of conversation you're having here with the Jr. Libertarian don't you GFR?

:jawdrop: I think I must pass on that one. :shut:

 

[Omniskeptical]

The punishment phase, which was handed down to the Jews by God, changed with the New Testament. That doesn't mean that those that engage in immoral sexual behavior (homosexuals, adulterers, those involved in incestuous relationships, etc.), shouldn't be punished.

I didn't say that, dork.

I don't want the Jr. Libertarian to get started on one of his rants, so let's hold off on this topic until I get to the segment entitled:

The 3 tenets of atheism.

whatever

 

[GFR7]

Just interjecting a random thought...

Just interjecting a random thought...

Just wanted to interject this as it came to mind:

It seems HIV has decreased among every population except among young gay males, where the increase has been alarming enough that the World Health Organization is recommending all gay/bisexual males take preventative drugs.

I feel that the thought which leaps forth like lightening is , that the born-that-way meme and massive liberal media approval has given these young gays a false sense that there can be no bad outcome to what is good at it's core ("The tree is known by it's fruit.")

No one born after the AIDS horror of the '80s remembers when.....

 

[GFR7]

The UN is our dumb embassy which has thought to build its own army someday.

Yes, I guess so.

 

[Nazaroo]

If you don't want things to continue as they have been, here is what you should do:

1. Preach the gospel as often as you can, in its completeness. The gospel is not a political agenda. The gospel is that man is totally depraved and sinful and can do nothing to save himself, so Jesus Christ, the God-man mediator, came to earth to die for the sins of his sheep, namely, those who trust in him alone to save them, that their sins might be paid for and that they might have eternal life.

Simply, No. The Gospel is not Calvinism.
And this kind of "gospel" or part of the gospel doesn't apply to children.
But I've seen it preached to children as a result of Calvinist nonsense,
with the result of leaving children and young teens terrified and confused.

This kind of misunderstanding of Paul's difficult teachings meant for
adult Israelites of the Diaspora and God-fearing Gentiles, who were
seeking a worldview to make sense of the Jewish-Roman War
and persecution by their own religious authorities has no place in
a universal Gospel meant to be taken to the ends of the earth.

In all cases, dogma, like the Law, is good if applied lawfully.
Its worthless if applied blindly and unintelligently and unintelligibly
to every person and situation to ever arise.

2. Teach fellow Christians ALL that the Bible says, including its political teachings. 1 Samuel 8 is an excellent starting point. Note that while the Mosaic Penal Law is not applicable today, the basic moral law does not change. This includes striving with men who do not harm you (Proverbs 3:30), being a busybody (1 Peter 4:15), trying to control the sexual sinners of the world (1 Corinthians 5:11), or starting conflicts (Matthew 5:9.) These ethical principles apply to governments, and Christians in government, as well.

Again No. Applying blindly and willy-nilly every teaching and precept
to every situation is a disaster. The example teachings here were given
to apply to the Mosaic and Christian communities and within them,
to maintain peace and order within the Covenant-group and Church.

In the case of Moses, there were a separate set of rules of Warfare,
and an additional set of rules for law enforcement and political and
military infrastructure in the nation and community, with or without a king.

In the case of the Christian community of saints and followers,
again there was one set of rules for members and families, and
another set of rules for outsiders and relationships and dealings with them.

These Intra-community rules were not meant to be extended into universal rules
for living inside and outside the Christian community. Rather the more accurate truth
is given right within Jesus' commandments and observations in His
final concentrated teaching in the last chapters of John's Gospel:

" I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” - John 13:34-35

Although Jesus in Matthew talks about loving loving one's 'enemies',
within the Christian or loyal God-fearing remnant of Israel and Gentiles,
and even extending this teaching to former 'friends', relatives and families
in the larger Jewish community during the heart-rending strife and separation
caused by the rejection of the Messiah by half the population,
the teaching to love 'enemies' is really an additional option or ideal
to be applied on the front line by loyal Christian adult leaders and
parties committed to converting as many of the remaining Jews as possible,
before the Great and Terrible Day of Jerusalem's destruction.

Here in John the REAL universal core principle and minimum standard is
shown and made clear, namely that Christians will be known,
not by loving their enemies, although those are noble sentiments,
but by practically loving those WITHIN their own community,
as a sign to outsiders of what one may have guaranteed access to
if one joins the community.

A Christian's loyalty is not to uncommitted and unbridled humanity,
although future Christians will be harvested from that pool.
A Christian's loyalty and love is to the Christian community,
and the requirements to qualify for that favour is to repent and
become a Christian.

Rather than 'love the world', Jesus commanded His followers
NOT to love the world.

3. Don't be afraid to use politics when its useful, but don't marry it either. Don't fear to refuse to cast a vote when all options are bad, or to "waste your vote" when the major 2 options are bad.

And more importantly, recognize that while Christians can cleverly
take advantage of existing secular and satanic political and military systems,
for the furthering of the Gospel, democracy or any other form of
government is an abomination. other than Theocracyand part of
the earthly kingdom which is being invaded and destroyed without hands
by the Invisible Kingdom of the Christ.

There can be no loyalty to democracy or any other form of rule,
which is not Biblically based, and which is indeed passing away rapidly.

4. Teach your children right and wrong. This includes both political ethics AND personal ethics.

While having children is 'good', its not essential, and
in the End Times, many will choose to be Eunuchs for the Gospel's sake.
Never lose sight of basic Christian strategies and tactics
which are needed in tough times.

And one of the political ethics Christians are obligated to teach is
the vision of Daniel, that of the earthly kingdoms coming to a crashing end,
along with all political systems that don't calculate God and Christ into the
equation.

5. Don't be a part of the problem by insisting that your particular pet issue is the one time government intervention has to happen. Everyone does it, and everyone wins, hence why we have the massive, out of control government that we have now.

While big government is bad, the Gospel, and the agenda of God,
has nothing to do with the promotion of minimal government or
self-government or any other political agenda.
God's agenda is already determined by His announcement of
the destruction of ALL earthly systems.

Recognize that the free market can do absolutely anything better than the government can.

No it can't. It leads to complete anarchy, as all unsupervised monetary
systems do.

And the Gospel has nothing to do with the promotion of the absurd
political-economic theory of a "free market".

You have confused the Gospel and its strict and narrow path,
with the wide path of destruction that leads to the concentration of
wealth in the hands of a handful of idiots.

When Jesus comes, all that gold will be cast in the streets,
because it will become radioactive and poisonous.

 

[GFR7]

Simply, No. The Gospel is not Calvinism.
And this kind of "gospel" or part of the gospel doesn't apply to children.
But I've seen it preached to children as a result of Calvinist nonsense,
with the result of leaving children and young teens terrified and confused.

This kind of misunderstanding of Paul's difficult teachings meant for
adult Israelites of the Diaspora and God-fearing Gentiles, who were
seeking a worldview to make sense of the Jewish-Roman War
and persecution by their own religious authorities has no place in
a universal Gospel meant to be taken to the ends of the earth.

In all cases, dogma, like the Law, is good if applied lawfully.
Its worthless if applied blindly and unintelligently and unintelligibly
to every person and situation to ever arise.



Again No. Applying blindly and willy-nilly every teaching and precept
to every situation is a disaster. The example teachings here were given
to apply to the Mosaic and Christian communities and within them,
to maintain peace and order within the Covenant-group and Church.

In the case of Moses, there were a separate set of rules of Warfare,
and an additional set of rules for law enforcement and political and
military infrastructure in the nation and community, with or without a king.

In the case of the Christian community of saints and followers,
again there was one set of rules for members and families, and
another set of rules for outsiders and relationships and dealings with them.

These Intra-community rules were not meant to be extended into universal rules
for living inside and outside the Christian community. Rather the more accurate truth
is given right within Jesus' commandments and observations in His
final concentrated teaching in the last chapters of John's Gospel:

" I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” - John 13:34-35

Although Jesus in Matthew talks about loving loving one's 'enemies',
within the Christian or loyal God-fearing remnant of Israel and Gentiles,
and even extending this teaching to former 'friends', relatives and families
in the larger Jewish community during the heart-rending strife and separation
caused by the rejection of the Messiah by half the population,
the teaching to love 'enemies' is really an additional option or ideal
to be applied on the front line by loyal Christian adult leaders and
parties committed to converting as many of the remaining Jews as possible,
before the Great and Terrible Day of Jerusalem's destruction.

Here in John the REAL universal core principle and minimum standard is
shown and made clear, namely that Christians will be known,
not by loving their enemies, although those are noble sentiments,
but by practically loving those WITHIN their own community,
as a sign to outsiders of what one may have guaranteed access to
if one joins the community.

A Christian's loyalty is not to uncommitted and unbridled humanity,
although future Christians will be harvested from that pool.
A Christian's loyalty and love is to the Christian community,
and the requirements to qualify for that favour is to repent and
become a Christian.

Rather than 'love the world', Jesus commanded His followers
NOT to love the world.



And more importantly, recognize that while Christians can cleverly
take advantage of existing secular and satanic political and military systems,
for the furthering of the Gospel, democracy or any other form of
government is an abomination. other than Theocracyand part of
the earthly kingdom which is being invaded and destroyed without hands
by the Invisible Kingdom of the Christ.

There can be no loyalty to democracy or any other form of rule,
which is not Biblically based, and which is indeed passing away rapidly.


While having children is 'good', its not essential, and
in the End Times, many will choose to be Eunuchs for the Gospel's sake.
Never lose sight of basic Christian strategies and tactics
which are needed in tough times.

And one of the political ethics Christians are obligated to teach is
the vision of Daniel, that of the earthly kingdoms coming to a crashing end,
along with all political systems that don't calculate God and Christ into the
equation.

While big government is bad, the Gospel, and the agenda of God,
has nothing to do with the promotion of minimal government or
self-government or any other political agenda.
God's agenda is already determined by His announcement of
the destruction of ALL earthly systems.
No it can't. It leads to complete anarchy, as all unsupervised monetary
systems do.

And the Gospel has nothing to do with the promotion of the absurd
political-economic theory of a "free market".

You have confused the Gospel and its strict and narrow path,
with the wide path of destruction that leads to the concentration of
wealth in the hands of a handful of idiots.

When Jesus comes, all that gold will be cast in the streets,
because it will become radioactive and poisonous.

Some astute and intelligently probing remarks here.

I have read them with interest.

In particular:

And one of the political ethics Christians are obligated to teach is the vision of Daniel, that of the earthly kingdoms coming to a crashing end, along with all political systems that don't calculate God and Christ into the equation.

While big government is bad, the Gospel, and the agenda of God,
has nothing to do with the promotion of minimal government or
self-government or any other political agenda.
God's agenda is already determined by His announcement of
the destruction of ALL earthly systems.
No it can't. It leads to complete anarchy, as all unsupervised monetary
systems do.

And the Gospel has nothing to do with the promotion of the absurd
political-economic theory of a "free market".