why do liberals ALWAYS take the side of the vile?

[genuineoriginal]

And if voting doesn't matter, why is GO so all-fired eager to take the right to vote away from most Americans?

Actually, it is your vote that doesn't matter against a populace of transients who lack commitment and vote according to which sound bytes they like best.

If you remove them from the equation, the voting will change to reflect the ideals of people that have made a commitment to their community, and your vote won't be just a drop in the ocean.

 

[genuineoriginal]

So why do you duck and run whenever I tell you to show where I said illegal immigrants should be allowed to vote? Do you think no one notices?

I don't.
The quote of your words was right there in the post where everyone can see it.

But, I see you are having a lot of fun making up a lie and repeating it over and over, which is a typical liberal tactic.

 

[Granite]

Also worth pointing out that renting is no indicator that one is "poor." When you consider how many millions of renters in major cities would be denied the vote, it seems apparent GO's real beef is a hatred for democracy and an axe to grind with his own country.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Also worth pointing out that renting is no indicator that one is "poor."

I am glad you finally realized that.

it seems apparent GO's real beef is a hatred for democracy

I would not be alone in that sentiment.

_____
An Understatement: The Founding Fathers Hated Democracy

It would be an understatement to say that the Founding Fathers hated democracy. They warned against it vehemently and relentlessly. They equated it—properly—with mob rule.

Someone far wittier than I once remarked that, in a democracy, two wolves and a sheep take a majority vote on what's for supper, while in a constitutional republic, the wolves are forbidden on voting on what's for supper and the sheep are well armed.

Neither the Declaration of Independence nor the Constitution even contains the word "democracy." In a democracy, the majority rules and individual rights are irrelevant

The Founders knew democracy would inevitably degenerate into despotism.

The United States Constitution goes to great lengths to thwart the process of democracy.

The Founders, who hated democracy, gave us a free country. Our ignorance of history, which has lead to a love of democracy, is causing us to surrender our freedoms at an alarming rate.
_____​

 

[Granite]

I am glad you finally realized that.

You're a bigger bonehead than I thought.

I would not be alone in that sentiment.

What about this country do you actually like, GO? Because you seem to hold the majority of your countrymen in complete contempt. And what does a sneering little monarchist like you care what the founders said or thought?

 

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian asks:
And if voting doesn't matter, why is GO so all-fired eager to take the right to vote away from most Americans?

He's got an agenda, he's not being open about.

Actually, it is your vote that doesn't matter against a populace of transients who lack commitment and vote according to which sound bytes they like best.

I'd be open to your evidence that most voters in most communities are "transients." Would you consider people who have lived in apartments for generations in the same city to be "transients?"

And I can assure you, as one who has done the corporate thing, that moving from one city to another is not difficult for a homeowner. Would someone like me, who made several company moves in his career,(buying a home each time) be less "transient" than a family who have lived in the same city (but renting) for generations?

Explain how you think so. This looks more like a simple-minded prejudice against "apartment people."

If you remove them from the equation, the voting will change to reflect the ideals of people that have made a commitment to their community, and your vote won't be just a drop in the ocean.

I'd be open to your demonstration (evidence required) that the family mentioned above, is less committed to my community than I am.

You're on.

 

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian asks:
So why do you duck and run whenever I tell you to show where I said illegal immigrants should be allowed to vote? Do you think no one notices?

I don't.

You just did again. You could end it all by just showing what you claimed I said.

Why not just admit you lied, learn from the experience, and try to live it down?

But, I see you are having a lot of fun making up a lie and repeating it over and over, which is a typical liberal tactic.

You could shut me up in one post, by showing where I said it. We all know why you won't.

 

[genuineoriginal]

He's got an agenda, he's not being open about.

The agenda is affirming that the founding founders of America were right.

_____
The Genius and Divine Inspiration of the United States Constitution (Part Four): Mechanics of Governance--Property Rights and the Voting Franchise

The proper role of government is to protect freedom. Freedom, to our Founding Fathers, consisted of the power or ability to enjoy one's life, liberty and property. Of these, property rights occupied a paramount status. Indeed, property rights were the kingpin or foundation stone upon which all other elements of freedom rest. The importance of property rights are reflected in the words and writings of the framers and other great men before, during, and after the founding era.

Arguments the Founders used for restricting the voting franchise to property owners included:

• Since voters were also property owners they would have a great vested interest in how government was run and operated and in keeping government fiscally restrained and responsible
• Potential voters had a built-in incentive to acquire property
• Property owners were generally seen as those who had worked hard and industriously, had exercised self-control and thrift, and acquired other virtuous character traits seen as necessary for the well-being of society.

Alexander Hamilton empathized with those wishing to broaden the voting suffrage by allowing non-property owners the vote but realized the folly inherent with allowing such. Further, in regards to fairness and equality, he understood that voters who were also property owners would be on an equal footing with all other such voters. As he wrote:

If it were probable that every man would give his vote freely, and without influence of any kind, then, upon the true theory and genuine principles of liberty, every member of the community, however poor, should have a vote… But since that can hardly be expected, in persons of indigent fortunes, or such as are under the immediate dominion of others, all popular states have been obliged to establish certain qualifications, whereby, some who are suspected to have no will of their own, are excluded from voting; in order to set other individuals, whose wills may be supposed independent, more thoroughly upon a level with each other. (Alexander Hamilton, "The Farmer Refuted")​

_____​

 

[genuineoriginal]

You could end it all by just showing what you claimed I said.

I already did in the first post you objected to.

Anyone that wishes to can go back to my post and clearly see the words you had posted that I quoted.

Since you chose not to do that, I can only assume you are just a lying troll.

 

[Caledvwlch]

I already did in the first post you objected to.

Anyone that wishes to can go back to my post and clearly see the words you had posted that I quoted.

Since you chose not to do that, I can only assume you are just a lying troll.

Just because I'm a nice guy, I went back to the beginning of this stupid, but kind of fun, thread.

The Barbarian did not suggest that illegal immigrants be allowed to vote. GO put those words in his mouth, and was immediately corrected.

In Post 43, GO says:

If you are claiming that homeless, transients, and illegals should have the same voting rights as land-owning members of a community, then you are right, it is a vile thing you are promoting.

The above quote was the first mention of illegal immigration in the thread.

In Post 44, The Barbarian rebuts:

If you're an American citizen, you have the right to vote. If you don't like it, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

I hope this clears everything up. Consider this my Christmas gift to the two of you. :cheers:

 

[Granite]

Cal for the win. Clarification is a Christmas miracle, folks.

 

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
You could end it all by just showing what you claimed I said.

(GO gets evasive again)

I already did in the first post you objected to.

Then it should be easy for you to shut me up by posting it. But we all know why you won't. You're lying about that, too. You claimed that I favor letting illegal immigrants vote, and you know very well that I never said that. You're a liar.

You're hoping that at least a few people won't check. Do you really think anyone is fooled?

Edit:
Whoops. Someone just took you up on it. It's official. You're a liar.

 

[genuineoriginal]

You're a liar.

I see your dishonesty knows no bounds.

You're hoping that at least a few people won't check. Do you really think anyone is fooled?

By your dishonesty and trolling? Nope.

Whoops. Someone just took you up on it. It's official. You're a liar

I did not lie.
Look again at the posts quoted above.
(Of course, if you were too stupid to comprehend them in the first place, there is no guarantee that you will be able to comprehend them now).

 

[genuineoriginal]

Just because I'm a nice guy, I went back to the beginning of this stupid, but kind of fun, thread.

The Barbarian did not suggest that illegal immigrants be allowed to vote. GO put those words in his mouth, and was immediately corrected.

In Post 43, GO says:

If you are claiming that homeless, transients, and illegals should have the same voting rights as land-owning members of a community, then you are right, it is a vile thing you are promoting.

The above quote was the first mention of illegal immigration in the thread.

In Post 44, The Barbarian rebuts:

If you're an American citizen, you have the right to vote. If you don't like it, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

I hope this clears everything up. Consider this my Christmas gift to the two of you. :cheers:

Thank you for proving I did not lie.
:chuckle:

 

[Caledvwlch]

Thank you for proving I did not lie.
:chuckle:

I'm not quite sure how you can interpret the data this way. But if you both want to claim victory, then I guess it's that much merrier a Christmas.

In other words, the only way you were not "lying" is if by "illegals" you mean "legal immigrants of Mexican descent."

 

[genuineoriginal]

I'm not quite sure how you can interpret the data this way.

the only way you were not "lying" is if by "illegals" you mean "legal immigrants of Mexican descent."

My statement started with, "If you are claiming . . ."

_____
if
conjunction
in case that; granting or supposing that; on condition that:
_____​

Is this something new that you just learned today?

if by "illegals" you mean "legal immigrants of Mexican descent."

Are you using "if" in the same way I did?

 

[Granite]

GO, stop trying to weasel out of what you said. Watching you squirm's only amusing in small doses.

 

[The Barbarian]

It's too late to backtrack now. Take the hit, learn from it, and don't lie again.

 

[genuineoriginal]

It's too late to backtrack now. Take the hit, learn from it, and don't lie again.

Stop lying and stop trolling.
Both actions show you are too childish to post on the grownup forums.

Maybe you should find a grade school English teacher who can teach you grammar so you won't end up looking so foolish when you make such avoidable mistakes.

 

[genuineoriginal]

GO, stop trying to weasel out of what you said. Watching you squirm's only amusing in small doses.

:yawn: