Who Here Chose To Be Heterosexual?

[Crowns&Laurels]

What makes you convinced you're some kind of expert on human sexuality, thumper?

The fact that we are a gender species, one in which does not have either a physiological need or even physically granted to have homosexuality.

The lengths you guys go to demean an entire group are really remarkable.

The lengths you guys go to find something to separate yourselves from the religious and bash them with it is really remarkable. speaking on inquisitions and crusades doesn't work, pro-life vs choice fails, feminism and atheist ideology fails.
But you've all finally found your club- homosexuality!

 

[Huckleberry]

The lengths you guys go to demean an entire group are really remarkable.

Ironically, I can't recall demeaning anyone at all. You, on the other hand, have done nothing but.

Your argument seems to be: "If it's possible in theory to get worked up over a chair, anything follows."

Rather, that sexuality is malleable which lends credibility to the notion that orientation is developed during puberty and remains malleable, as opposed to being rigid and genetically predetermined.

 

[resodko]

Ah yes, I recall you didn't seem to have a problem with Phil "Get em' when they're 15" Robertson...

hitting the sauce again?

 

[Granite]

Ironically, I can't recall demeaning anyone at all. You, on the other hand, have done nothing but.

I'll wait. You always get there sooner or later.

Rather, that sexuality is malleable which lends credibility to the notion that orientation is developed during puberty and remains malleable, as opposed to being rigid and genetically predetermined.

Which is a fine little pet theory of yours. Doesn't prove anything other than your mind's made up.

 

[Huckleberry]

I say it's speculation as with any ancient culture to an extent that's all any of us can give, IMO anyway. Now if it was the norm then it hardly requires a great leap of the imagination to figure that environment would play a significant factor where it would come to homosexuality. I don't claim that sexuality isn't malleable, certainly in regards to the impressionability of youth and living in a society where such is commonplace would have an effect on the psyche. Disagree?

I agree, but doesn't this show your OP question as erroneous? What did you expect to accomplish by posing the question?

The example I gave was regarding a straight man where homosexual acts are simulated and not actually performed. You're arguing a point I've not even made here.

Merely making a point of the fact that sexuality must be self-identified. You agree?

Um, I self identify as heterosexual so what exactly am I rejecting? No, obviously I didn't have a sexual attraction to females before puberty but I knew I saw girls a lot differently than I did boys even if at the time I may not have fully understood why.

Would you say that prepubescent non-sexual attraction you had for females was genetic or environmental? Internally or externally established?

You keep talking about the reality of sexuality as if you have a monopoly on the understanding of it without actually saying anything about it. So far I see more sound bites from you than anything else and little to actually address. Accusations of 'political correctness' really mean nothing and even if someone disagrees or has a contrary position to you on the matter doesn't mean they're 'towing the line'.

As above.

Sexual orientation is predominantly determined by environmental factors during puberty. That would be a "reality" of human sexuality. Do you agree with this particular point? How about whether or not sexual orientation can be diminished or developed post-puberty? Would you agree with that? If you agree with either point then you render your initial question in the OP erroneous, don't you?

 

[Arthur Brain]

Putting aside the argument from incredulity, can you acknowledge that it is possible to develop, by any means at all, a sexual attraction to an inanimate object? If you're not able to admit that, then will you acknowledge that it is possible to develop fetishes involving inanimate objects?

Yes, I acknowledge it's possible for some but I don't acknowledge that everyone can train themselves up to do the same. When I heard about the woman marrying a Ferris wheel my first thought wasn't to wish them a long and happy life together but rather that she needed help. It turns out that the Ferris wheel symbolised a happy time in her life amid trauma and she was psychologically damaged - such can obviously impact on sexuality. Where it comes to fetishes then again, a fair amount can be connected to environment and psychological factors, for example gas masks/war etc.

I think you should critically examine your position on this issue in light of the inanimate object/fetish question, and critically examine its effect on your position in regards to the development of sexual orientation. I submit that you're unwilling to accept sexual malleability extends to development of attractions to inanimate objects because that would threaten your position that sexual orientation is rigid. And that conceding that point would, in turn, threaten your position that one is born with a homo-/hetero- orientation rather than developing it during puberty. Which in turn would threaten to suggest the possibility that one's sexual orientation is malleable post-puberty, which would allow for the possibility of diminishing one's orientation and/or developing new ones.

Perhaps you should be objective enough to do the same and acknowledge that it's at least possible for people to be born with orientation pre-puberty? If you're not willing to do that then you're really in no position to lecture about objectivity or critical thinking here.

I'm not arguing that sexuality isn't malleable even post puberty nor have ever done so. As it stands I identify as straight because it's only possible for me to be romantically/physically attracted to the opposite sex. It's not a choice, it simply is. Now, if something were to happen that deeply affected my psyche beyond control then who knows?

 

[PureX]

Not being homosexual, it's not possible for me to know with any surety how one 'becomes a homosexual'. I have asked a few homosexual friends I've known over the years well enough to ask such questions, and their stories were quite similar.

They said they suspected something was different even as children, because they tended to identify more with kids of the opposite gender than with kids of their own gender. But that wasn't such a big issue for them, as kids are generally just kids, and gender identification wasn't something that they concerned themselves with.

When they reached puberty, however, they initially tried very hard to be like everyone else. They dated the opposite gender, and often had sex with them to make themselves feel, act, and be heterosexual. And it was the repeated failure of these attempts at being heterosexual that actually finally convinced them that they were not, and never would be.

Even the friend who identified as bisexual had this same basic childhood/adolescent experience, but ultimately concluded that he wasn't going to let gender define who he would be with (instead of concluding that he was simply "gay").

Since I am not gay, I have to assume that their stories are true (as I have no reason to doubt them), and that they are generally representative of other gay people's experiences. It was a very difficult struggle for those I spoke with to finally face and accept their sexual orientation as not being "normal", so I have a very difficult time believing that they chose this course just to disobey God or religion.

 

[Arthur Brain]

I agree, but doesn't this show your OP question as erroneous? What did you expect to accomplish by posing the question?

Hardly, as it was intended to show that people don't actually choose their orientation as oppose to the erroneous notion that some have that homosexuals 'choose' theirs.

Merely making a point of the fact that sexuality must be self-identified. You agree?

It generally is anyway.

Would you say that prepubescent non-sexual attraction you had for females was genetic or environmental? Internally or externally established?

Genetic. It was simply inwired and there were no significant environmental factors going on to influence one way or the other.

Sexual orientation is predominantly determined by environmental factors during puberty. That would be a "reality" of human sexuality. Do you agree with this particular point? How about whether or not sexual orientation can be diminished or developed post-puberty? Would you agree with that? If you agree with either point then you render your initial question in the OP erroneous, don't you?

I don't agree with it. While environmental factors can certainly play a part - and sometimes significantly I think an orientation is generally established before adolescence for most. As I've already explained I don't consider sexuality to be completely immune from malleability either pre or post pubescent for everyone and in regards to the OP the point was that people don't choose, so it's valid.

 

[resodko]

... that people don't actually choose their orientation...

you seem to have an awful lot of emotional investment in this concept :think:

 

[Granite]

Not being homosexual, it's not possible for me to know with any surety how one 'becomes a homosexual'. I have asked a few homosexual friends I've known over the years well enough to ask such questions, and their stories were quite similar.

They said they suspected something was different even as children, because they tended to identify more with kids of the opposite gender than with kids of their own gender. But that wasn't such a big issue for them, as kids are generally just kids, and gender identification wasn't something that they concerned themselves with.

When they reached puberty, however, they initially tried very hard to be like everyone else. They dated the opposite gender, and often had sex with them to make themselves feel, act, and be heterosexual. And it was the repeated failure of these attempts at being heterosexual that actually finally convinced them that they were not, and never would be.

Even the friend who identified as bisexual had this same basic childhood/adolescent experience, but ultimately concluded that he wasn't going to let gender define who he would be with (instead of concluding that he was simply "gay").

Since I am not gay, I have to assume that their stories are true (as I have no reason to doubt them), and that they are generally representative of other gay people's experiences. It was a very difficult struggle for those I spoke with to finally face and accept their sexual orientation as not being "normal", so I have a very difficult time believing that they chose this course just to disobey God or religion.

Yeah, that there's a classic...utterly juvenile, insulting asinine, ignorant, and just all-around clueless.

Gay people have been more and more accepted as time's gone on partly, I believe, because people realize how much the zealots have lied about gay men and women. Once folks caught on to how they'd been duped I really think it started much of the reaction towards supporting gay rights and marriage equality.

 

[PureX]

Yeah, that there's a classic...utterly juvenile, insulting asinine, ignorant, and just all-around clueless.

Gay people have been more and more accepted as time's gone on partly, I believe, because people realize how much the zealots have lied about gay men and women. Once folks caught on to how they'd been duped I really think it started much of the reaction towards supporting gay rights and marriage equality.

I think so, too. And it helps to improve my view of humanity, a little.

I'm hoping that trend will continue, but just when I dare to hope ...

 

[chrysostom]

you don't choose what you are
but
you do choose what you do
and
you will be held responsible for those choices

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

Gay people have been more and more accepted as time's gone on partly, I believe, because people realize how much the zealots have lied about gay men and women. Once folks caught on to how they'd been duped I really think it started much of the reaction towards supporting gay rights and marriage equality.

Or, society just lost it's standards altogether. You will notice that this change on how society views homosexuality happened in a thirty years of hippiedom, drugs, immodesty, and general loss of respect for honor and legacy.

LGBT, the overwhelming minority of society (3%), maintains over 60% of all HIV, has a list of over fifty serial killers, and has a strong culture of rape and molestation.

So, what were the 'zealots' lying about? It's you all who lie- even the psychological and medical fields changed what homosexuality was not by evidence, but outright force. This is even amply known and still, no reversing back to the truth, it's all about political correctness and liberal shenanigans!
That's what gets me about society, the utter fanaticism- we're calling falsehoods truth now because people can't handle the truth_

 

[genuineoriginal]

Would you say that prepubescent non-sexual attraction you had for females was genetic or environmental? Internally or externally established?

Genetic. It was simply inwired and there were no significant environmental factors going on to influence one way or the other.

Just like a person's native tongue is genetic, simply inwired, and there were no significant environmental factors going on to influence you knowing English when you were in school.
English speakers are just born that way.

 

[Granite]

Or, society just lost it's standards altogether.

Which every generation has heard since the beginning of recorded time.

You will notice that this change on how society views homosexuality happened in a thirty years of hippiedom, drugs, immodesty, and general loss of respect for honor and legacy.

Still scared of those terrifying hippies, are we?:chuckle:

LGBT, the overwhelming minority of society (3%), maintains over 60% of all HIV, has a list of over fifty serial killers, and has a strong culture of rape and molestation.

Nonsense and more.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

Nonsense and more.

Bottom line, post#493 :up:

 

[Arthur Brain]

Just like a person's native tongue is genetic, simply inwired, and there were no significant environmental factors going on to influence you knowing English when you were in school.
English speakers are just born that way.

Not a viable comparison. A language is learned, taught. Nobody taught me to like girls...

 

[genuineoriginal]

Not a viable comparison. A language is learned, taught. Nobody taught me to like girls...

You are claiming that you never even saw a man and a woman kissing while you were growing up?
Not even once?

 

[Arthur Brain]

You are claiming that you never even saw a man and a woman kissing while you were growing up?
Not even once?

No, I'm not claiming that. What does that even have to do with anything? You think that seeing a couple of people kiss sparks off a 'learned' attraction or something?

:AMR:

 

[genuineoriginal]

No, I'm not claiming that. What does that even have to do with anything? You think that seeing a couple of people kiss sparks off a 'learned' attraction or something?

I am suggesting that people learn their "sexual orientation" in a similar way that they learn their native language, through observation and interaction with their environment during their formative years.

This would typically lead to a heterosexual orientation, especially when considering the biological imperative to procreate, but will sometimes lead to asexual, bisexual, homosexual, or fetish orientations in instances of mismatched environmental and biological stimuli.