Who died on the cross? - a Hall of Fame thread.

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Nathon Detroit

Nathon Detroit

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Freak said:
Jesus Christ was seperated from the Trinity? Since Jesus Christ is God He was never seperated from the Godhead. Perhaps you can clarify...
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Hey Jay what's up?

I don't see any place where Lion asserted that Jesus was separated from the trinity. Lion stated that Jesus was separated from the Father (which is what death really is). The Son died on the cross (i.e., was separated from the Father), the Father poured out His wrath on the Son, and then the Father raised Him on the third day. :up:
 
Sozo

Sozo

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beloved57 said:
rom 5

But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

The bible calls him a man what else you want ? geesh..
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That does not say that Jesus has the nature of man. In fact, the only nature that the bible ascribes to Jesus is His divine nature. The Bible does say that Jesus came in the appearance of a man, and in the likeness of sinful flesh. Do you also claim that Jesus had sinful flesh?
 
Newman

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Sozo said:
That does not say that Jesus has the nature of man. In fact, the only nature that the bible ascribes to Jesus is His divine nature. The Bible does say that Jesus came in the appearance of a man, and in the likeness of sinful flesh. Do you also claim that Jesus had sinful flesh?
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So, what are you saying? Are you saying that Jesus was a man with a divine nature? Or wasn't a man, but just a hologram with a divine nature? Or no nature at all?

Please enlighten me...

BTW, this is starting to get a little off topic. There are already two other active threads concerning Jesus and sin. I'm not saying that we are off topic, I'm saying that we could end up off topic.
 
beloved57

beloved57

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Sozo said:
That does not say that Jesus has the nature of man. In fact, the only nature that the bible ascribes to Jesus is His divine nature. The Bible does say that Jesus came in the appearance of a man, and in the likeness of sinful flesh. Do you also claim that Jesus had sinful flesh?
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scripture says he is a man right there, it cannot be more clearer than that..
 
Sozo

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Newman said:
So, what are you saying? Are you saying that Jesus was a man with a divine nature? Or wasn't a man, but just a hologram with a divine nature? Or no nature at all?

Please enlighten me...
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I'm saying, as I've always said, that Jesus is God manifested in the flesh. He has one nature, not two.


The Bible does not teach that Jesus has two natures, or two identities. God the Son physically died on the cross (if you understand the proper meaning of the word "died").
 
uk_mikey

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Ktoyou said:
If you look at what AMR stated, he believes Jesus now in heaven has the two natures, fully God and fully man. I think Jesus is fully God, but not fully man.

The position I hold does contradict what seems to be Biblical and a tenant of the early Church. Why I think this is not clear to me, but I have thought about it for many years. I think the human body is a biological vessel, not needed in heaven. I may be a heretic on this, but I cannot see why Jesus or any person in heaven would need a body?

I think it is hard for people to conceive of this idea. Jesus appeared after the resurrection, but He had his wounds, yet was not injured by them. In addition, Jesus was not always recognized, as we know from scripture. I think he appeared as his image without a human body.
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I think that as Christians we tend to reduce the importance of the 'body' when we talk about life in general, and see the spirit as the all important part of who we are.
I don't see this in Scripture. It's certainly a Protestant and generally a Western (Protestant and RC) ethos to think of the body as something corrupt and 'dirty' to the extent that it's almost an undesirable part of who we are.
We know that our bodies are 'fallen', but the promise is of the glory in the body.

Maybe I'm exagerating here to make the point, but it's not uncommon for people to find it unimaginable that we would have bodies after the resurrection.

Thomas touched His wounds because he doubted it was him. He felt the wounds and knew it was his Master.
Christ was taken up to Heaven in his physical humanity. I don't know that when He got there, He suddenly lost his body. Otherwise, why bother being taken up in His body?
 
Newman

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Sozo said:
I'm saying, as I've always said, that Jesus is God manifested in the flesh. He has one nature, not two.


The Bible does not teach that Jesus has two natures, or two identities. God the Son physically died on the cross (if you understand the proper meaning of the word "died").
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What do you think is the proper meaning of the word "died"?
 
Sozo

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Newman said:
What do you think is the proper meaning of the word "died"?
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Separation

I have a bit of a different perspective about the death of Jesus then perhaps Lion and Knight on this subject, but I agree with them about who Jesus is, and that He only has one nature.

When a Christian dies, they are absent from the body, but present with the Lord. The separation that they experience is from their physical body, not from God. In fact, Jesus said that those who believe in Him, would never die (as in the fact that the life that they have 'His Life' is eternal).
 
Nathon Detroit

Nathon Detroit

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Sozo said:
Separation

I have a bit of a different perspective about the death of Jesus then perhaps Lion and Knight on this subject, but I agree with them about who Jesus is, and that He only has one nature.

When a Christian dies, they are absent from the body, but present with the Lord. The separation that they experience is from their physical body, not from God. In fact, Jesus said that those who believe in Him, would never die (as in the fact that the life that they have 'His Life' is eternal).
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:up: I am not sure we have any disagreement. What you have just posted is exactly what Lion and I believe.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

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Death & hades go hand in hand...when a member of the Body dies physically, they bypass hades. Christ spent 3 days in hades on behalf of his Body.

Saved Israel will be resurrected out of hades at the 2nd coming. The gates of hell will not prevail against them just as they did not prevail against their King and Priest.

So, death as I see it, is separation from God in hades.

Matthew 16:18 KJV.
 
Sozo

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SaulToPaul said:
Death & hades go hand in hand...when a member of the Body dies physically, they bypass hades. Christ spent 3 days in hades on behalf of his Body.

Saved Israel will be resurrected out of hades at the 2nd coming. The gates of hell will not prevail against them just as they did not prevail against their King and Priest.

So, death as I see it, is separation from God in hades.

Matthew 16:18 KJV.
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Why was it necessary for Jesus to go to Hades?
 
Evoken

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Knight said:
I don't see any place where Lion asserted that Jesus was separated from the trinity.
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Lion: "When Christ was there, He was still God, but separated from the trinity"(source)

He believes that members of the trinity can become "fallen" by sinning and thus be separated and that the Father could sin and that this would destroy the Godhead.


Evo
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

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Sozo said:
Why was it necessary for Jesus to go to Hades?
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Well, the wages of sin is death. Jesus was made to be sin. The wages weren't
paid by dying, but for death (separation from the Father) in Hades. The blood
blotted out the sins, the Father was satisfied, and raised up Jesus because the Father was satisfied (for our justification)...
 
Sozo

Sozo

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SaulToPaul said:
Well, the wages of sin is death. Jesus was made to be sin. The wages weren't
paid by dying, but for death (separation from the Father) in Hades. The blood
blotted out the sins, the Father was satisfied, and raised up Jesus because the Father was satisfied (for our justification)...
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Makes sense. :thumb:

So, therefore the resurrection is where Jesus conquered death?
 
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