Whiny Atheists

WizardofOz

New member
"Other content" is quite ambiguous.

Therefore...public schools are legally obligated to allow any club to form at any time and for any reason? :liberals:
 

fool

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
What is an atheist agenda?
Well I imagine this group could talk about how hard it was to get the group stated

Can an agenda be formed around non-belief?

One could be formed around getting your rights trampled.

So, it's more of an anti-religion support group? That would be at least be something to form a group around.
We have the right to form a group around nothing and call it the nothing group.
No matter how much or little sense that makes to anybody.
It is simply silly to start a social group around a lack of belief in something.
It's simply silly to try to stop them then yes?
But silly as that is someone tried to stop them.
Atheists joke about stuff like this all the time.
Because it's laughable that anyone would try to stop them but they did.



Should the school pander to a flying spaghetti monster club? How about an "I don't believe in unicorns" club?
Allowing people to gather isn't "pandering", it's their right.
This is ridiculous on its face.
It actually proves that it's not.
 

fool

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
"Other content" is quite ambiguous.

Therefore...public schools are legally obligated to allow any club to form at any time and for any reason? :liberals:

The club formed to exercise our right to form a club club.
 

Tinark

Active member
Is "In God we Trust" on our money a violation of the Constitution?

Doubtful. The courts that have ruled on the matter have deemed that it doesn't violate it.

It's one thing to declare a violation of the Constitution....

Most of the cases we are talking about, religious displays on public property or displays that recieve public funding, teacher or school official lead prayer, etc. have consistently been ruled to violate the constitution. Those kinds of cases are settled law.

Imagine all the "whiny" christians that would pop out of the woodwork if the Muslim Crecent were displayed on government property or if a Muslim teacher lead a prayer to Allah in class.
 

WizardofOz

New member
Doubtful. The courts that have ruled on the matter have deemed that it doesn't violate it.

And you're OK with and agree with this decision?

Most of the cases we are talking about, religious displays on public property or displays that recieve public funding, teacher or school official lead prayer, etc. have consistently been ruled to violate the constitution. Those kinds of cases are settled law.

That's really not true, at least as far as the examples in this thread go. The WTC memorial "cross" was allowed to be included in the memorial despite the "headaches, indigestion and even mental pain" it caused the plaintiffs.

The statue of Jesus on federal land in Montana can stay.

et al.

Imagine all the "whiny" christians that would pop out of the woodwork if the Muslim Crecent were displayed on government property or if a Muslim teacher lead a prayer to Allah in class.
Tit for tat then.

If that were the case I'd start a thread on that as well. I'm all for religious expression. If a Muslim symbol was on a government building, that isn't discriminating against other religions nor is it evidence that the government has adopted Islam as the state religion.

This litigious whining is getting a bit silly and overdone regardless of who is doing it.
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
American Humanist Association demands students stop feeding starving kids

Stop feeding starving children, or else!

The American Humanist Association sent that message to a school in Robbinsdale, Minn., accusing them of violating the U.S. Constitution by allowing students to participate in a community service project at a church that involved preparing meals for impoverished children in Haiti.

The humanists got their britches in a bunch after the family of a student at the School of Engineering and Arts objected to the project being held at Calvary Lutheran Church.

Read more here: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014...p-feeding-starting-children/?intcmp=obnetwork

I agree with this also from the article:
This is a new low even for humanists. It takes a special kind of godless thuggery to take food out of the mouths of starving children.

How pathetic.
 

WizardofOz

New member
American Humanist Association demands students stop feeding starving kids

Read more here: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014...p-feeding-starting-children/?intcmp=obnetwork

I agree with this also from the article:

How pathetic.

Yikes :doh:


Alliance Defending Freedom, a law firm specializing in religious liberty cases, offered to defend the school district free of charge.

“Public schools should encourage students to participate in as many community service opportunities as possible. The Constitution does not prohibit students from cooperating with a religious organization to help starving families, which is not any sort of government endorsement of religion,” said ADF attorney Matt Sharp. “Neutrality toward religion does not permit schools to discriminate against beneficial programs simply because they are run by Christians. That is not neutrality but the very hostility toward religion that the First Amendment forbids.”



:thumb: Well said
 

alwight

New member
American Humanist Association demands students stop feeding starving kids



Read more here: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014...p-feeding-starting-children/?intcmp=obnetwork

I agree with this also from the article:

How pathetic.
If the below quote (from the same article) is an example of what Fox News think of as being "Fair and Balanced" then I personally don't trust a word of it. Todd Starnes' personal bias is rather clear anyway...if he really means it.
I rather doubt that any Humanists actually want anyone to starve as implied, imo it's all just distorted worthless journalistic bluster and eye candy for FOX's audience to get all worked up about. :IA:


"To illustrate her point, the letter to school officials featured damning photograph evidence – including images of a choir clad in robes, stained glass windows, and (brace yourself) a steeple. Oh, the horror!

How the atheists must have trembled at the sight of the cross as they tried to avert their eyes lest they soil themselves and spontaneously combust."

Go on, do pull the other one. :rolleyes:

He's having a laugh, surely.
 

WizardofOz

New member
If the below quote (from the same article) is an example of what Fox News think of as being "Fair and Balanced" then I personally don't trust a word of it. Todd Starnes' personal bias is rather clear anyway...if he really means it.
I rather doubt that any Humanists actually want anyone to starve as implied, imo it's all just distorted worthless journalistic bluster and eye candy for FOX's audience to get all worked up about. :IA:


"To illustrate her point, the letter to school officials featured damning photograph evidence – including images of a choir clad in robes, stained glass windows, and (brace yourself) a steeple. Oh, the horror!

How the atheists must have trembled at the sight of the cross as they tried to avert their eyes lest they soil themselves and spontaneously combust."

Go on, do pull the other one. :rolleyes:

He's having a laugh, surely.

I'm rather skeptical of Fox News reporting myself so I did read more about this.

Some of this is from the article linked but have some direct quotes:

“The school has clearly violated the Establishment Clause,” AHA attorney Monica Miller wrote in a threatening letter to the school and district officials. “By sending public school children under your authority to a religious environment – to work with a religious organization that is on a religious mission – is a violating of the First Amendment principle of church-state separation.”

The humanists took special offense to biblical terminology used to describe the mission to feed starving children.

“The packages involved were called ‘manna’ packages, after the edible substances that, according to the Bible, God provided for the Israelites,” attorney Miller wrote.

She was also dutifully offended that Calvary Lutheran Church – looked like a church, noting the “venue involved included extensive religious imagery and symbolism.”

The AHA said the parent also complained about the event last year.

“Thus, it is even more egregious that, after the parental complaint was made last year, you did nothing to remedy the problem, but instead suggested that the parent was misguided for complaining,” Miller wrote.

AHA said they don’t have a problem feeding hungry children. They just have a problem doing it inside a “theologically-charged environment.”

“We are not opposed to educating children about poverty around the world, nor do we object to their participating in a nonreligious program to provide assistance,” Miller wrote.

from here
"Very importantly, we fully understand that at least one purpose of this field trip was to have the children participate in charity work intended to assist poverty stricken people," she writes. "Such good intentions, however, can be pursued in innumerable other ways that do not involve immersing the unsuspecting children into a theologically-charged environment."



Those are direct quotes and not Fox News bias.

Do you find this ridiculous or will you defend AHA and their attorney, Monica Miller?
 

alwight

New member
Do you find this ridiculous or will you defend AHA and their attorney, Monica Miller?
No, my own bias is that any such organisations tend to be comprised of radical enthusiastic agenda seeking individuals, whatever the cause.
I know for example that I was probably put off my own trade union by such people on a mission. Activists do what activists do usually for their own reasons imo, the actual truth is probably somewhere in between the two opposing sides. I suspect that even the Fox journalist is well aware of this, and his levity was rather evidence of that, I think.
 

WizardofOz

New member
No, my own bias is that any such organisations tend to be comprised of radical enthusiastic agenda seeking individuals, whatever the cause.
I know for example that I was probably put off my own trade union by such people on a mission. Activists do what activists do usually for their own reasons imo, the actual truth is probably somewhere in between the two opposing sides. I suspect that even the Fox journalist is well aware of this, and his levity was rather evidence of that, I think.

Agreed.

I can picture people at the AHA just scouring for a new target and people at Fox News like Todd Starnes likely actually love it when they find one.
 

fool

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
American Humanist Association demands students stop feeding starving kids
Poppykosh, they demanded no such thing, if someone has to lie to make a point then they have no point.

Read more here: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014...p-feeding-starting-children/?intcmp=obnetwork

I agree with this also from the article:


This is a new low even for humanists. It takes a special kind of godless thuggery to take food out of the mouths of starving children.
How pathetic.

It is pathetic, pathetically inflammatory and incorrect.
How is the school kids not showing up going to take food out of anyones mouth? Were they counting on the first, second and third graders to butcher and jerk a cow and nobody else can figure it out?
They can't bring the boxes to the school and have them filled there?
Lies!


Yikes :doh:


Alliance Defending Freedom, a law firm specializing in religious liberty cases, offered to defend the school district free of charge.

“Public schools should encourage students to participate in as many community service opportunities as possible. The Constitution does not prohibit students from cooperating with a religious organization to help starving families, which is not any sort of government endorsement of religion,” said ADF attorney Matt Sharp. “Neutrality toward religion does not permit schools to discriminate against beneficial programs simply because they are run by Christians. That is not neutrality but the very hostility toward religion that the First Amendment forbids.”



:thumb: Well said
That is complete utter bull!
Not going to a church to stuff boxes is hostility towards religion?
Aren't they being hostile towards Islam by not going to a Mosque to stuff boxes? Or a Jain Temple? Or the Church of Satan?

I'm rather skeptical of Fox News reporting myself so I did read more about this.

Some of this is from the article linked but have some direct quotes:

“The school has clearly violated the Establishment Clause,” AHA attorney Monica Miller wrote in a threatening letter to the school and district officials. “By sending public school children under your authority to a religious environment – to work with a religious organization that is on a religious mission – is a violating of the First Amendment principle of church-state separation.”

The humanists took special offense to biblical terminology used to describe the mission to feed starving children.

“The packages involved were called ‘manna’ packages, after the edible substances that, according to the Bible, God provided for the Israelites,” attorney Miller wrote.

She was also dutifully offended that Calvary Lutheran Church – looked like a church, noting the “venue involved included extensive religious imagery and symbolism.”

The AHA said the parent also complained about the event last year.

“Thus, it is even more egregious that, after the parental complaint was made last year, you did nothing to remedy the problem, but instead suggested that the parent was misguided for complaining,” Miller wrote.

AHA said they don’t have a problem feeding hungry children. They just have a problem doing it inside a “theologically-charged environment.”

“We are not opposed to educating children about poverty around the world, nor do we object to their participating in a nonreligious program to provide assistance,” Miller wrote.

from here
"Very importantly, we fully understand that at least one purpose of this field trip was to have the children participate in charity work intended to assist poverty stricken people," she writes. "Such good intentions, however, can be pursued in innumerable other ways that do not involve immersing the unsuspecting children into a theologically-charged environment."



Those are direct quotes and not Fox News bias.

Do you find this ridiculous or will you defend AHA and their attorney, Monica Miller?
It's ridiculous that they even tried something like this, if it had been a Mosque the Christians would have been screaming bloody murder.
 

WizardofOz

New member
That is complete utter bull!
Not going to a church to stuff boxes is hostility towards religion?

No but bringing students to a church to engage in a secular activity is not a breach of the establishment clause.

It's ridiculous that they even tried something like this, if it had been a Mosque the Christians would have been screaming bloody murder.

Let's refer to it as "whining" ;)

And, I'd mock them for it too if they did so because unless the Muslims are proselytizing there is no harm in students engaging in a secular charitable activity taking place in a mosque.


“We believe that this activity was a service learning activity,” she told me. “There was absolutely no evangelizing or religious activity in the event.”

 
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