Whiny Atheists

Silent Hunter

Well-known member
No one is asking you to personally approve. Just stop the whining about its perfectly legal inclusion in the WTC memorial.
Legal? That has yet to be determined . . . and the only person whining is . . . you.

Non-sequiter. Just because it is not random it is therefore an endorsement of Christianity.
Sorry, no, it isn't a non-sequitur. The "cross" was SPECIFICALLY chosen due to its similarity to the christian symbol. In my opinion, which is the only one that matters, it endorses christianity.

A Christian symbol can be included in a federally funded memorial without an endorsement of the religion itself because of its historical value and relevance.
Not on MY tax dollar it can't.

And you whine to me about non-sequiturs . . . :rolleyes:

Make no mistake though, the American Atheists are the ones whining.
No, they believe that they have a valid complaint and are exercising their rights under the constitution for redress.

Oh grow up. Like I care who neg reps me. This isn't a popularity contest. Get over yourself.
Now who's whining?

I'll take the educated opinion of Federal Judge Deborah Batts over yours in this case. When she says it can be included because of its historical tie, what it is a symbol of is rendered irrelevant, regardless of how much you or American Atheists :allsmile: about religious endorsements you perceive.
I'm sure you'd be the one whining had her opinion disagreed with yours.
 

WizardofOz

New member
No one is asking you to personally approve. Just stop the whining about its perfectly legal inclusion in the WTC memorial.
Legal? That has yet to be determined . . . and the only person whining is . . . you.

:chuckle: Not at all. What would I have to whine about? The suit has been dismissed and is now facing its last gasp on appeal.

Not random? So it IS an endorsement of christianity . . . .
:doh: Non-sequiter. Just because it is not random it is therefore an endorsement of Christianity. :plain:
Sorry, no, it isn't a non-sequitur. The "cross" was SPECIFICALLY chosen due to its similarity to the christian symbol. In my opinion, which is the only one that matters, it endorses christianity.

Just because it wasn't chosen at random does not make its inclusion an endorsement of Christianity. Non-sequitor / false dilemma.

There are other reasons that it would be included other than the endorsement of one religion and the judge cited this in her decision.

You choose to ignore them.

A Christian symbol can be included in a federally funded memorial without an endorsement of the religion itself because of its historical value and relevance.
Not on MY tax dollar it can't.

Yes. It. Can. Your tax dollars already fund numerous crosses, whether they are artifacts in museums or memorials in parks or cemeteries.

This cross, as a historical artifact, will be simply added to the list.

It is completely relevant to the memorial, whiny atheists apprehension notwithstanding.
. . . rather whiny christian wants not withstanding.
And Jews apparently.
And you whine to me about non-sequiturs . . . :rolleyes:

I'm sorry that you're having trouble following the conversation. Perhaps it makes more sense now that I quoted more of this particular exchange...

Not just "Christian wants" as a Jew is the one fighting to include a WTC rubble beam-cross at his fire station in Princeton.

Yeah, it follows.

One final wager on the American Atheist's last gasp, pathetically desperate appeal? You seem like you could use a break.
You're just begging for more neg rep . . . aren't you?
Oh grow up. Like I care who neg reps me. This isn't a popularity contest. Get over yourself.
Now who's whining?

I told you to neg rep me all you'd like. That's whining? :liberals:
I'm sure you'd be the one whining had her opinion disagreed with yours.

As it stands now, federal ruling agree with me so we're just left with you, American Atheists and a few other malcontents whining about this cross.

Again, reality.
 

fool

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Um, Silent Hunter?
You have an 8 thousand rep, and your threatening someone with a 58 thousand rep with your puny negs.
Me thinks you should do some math, or learn about math and how the numbers and stuff werks.
 

WizardofOz

New member
Wouldn't you rather expect American Atheists to "whine", since it's rather their purpose and raison d'être to do so, or should they become a knitting circle?

:chuckle: Knitting would at least be a positive and productive pursuit. Mostly they present a negative message. Like their billboard campaigns mocking and otherwise disrespecting religion. They cannot put forth their message without taking shots at religious groups.


On Tuesday, American Atheists announced a Salt Lake City billboard campaign to promote its upcoming national convention with two new designs challenging the assumption that all Utahns are Mormons. One billboard features a group of senior citizens with the message: “Think all of Utah’s ‘Elders’ are Mormons? Think again! We’re Atheists!” The other champions a group of 14 beaming students with the same text but substituting “students” for “‘Elders.’”



Well, we're having our convention in Utah so let's take shots at the Mormons :hammer:

What a great message to get out there!


“‘Utahn’ does not mean ‘Mormon,’” said American Atheists President David Silverman. “There are many Utahns who want nothing to do with Mormonism, and this is especially true when it comes to creating laws, which must serve everyone. While the ‘elders’ joke referring to Latter-day Saints missionaries is supposed to be cute of course, the message is a real one: The assumption that Utahns are Mormon, specifically the encroachment of Mormon values into law, is dangerous and unconstitutional. This is especially clear in the recent and ongoing struggle for Utah’s LGBT population to gain equal rights for marriage.”



How quaint. Who assumes that all citizens of Utah are Mormon? :idunno:

I'm glad we have American Atheists here to remind us that not all Utahns are Mormon.

Thanks, David! Money well spent. :plain:
 

WizardofOz

New member
Um, Silent Hunter?
You have an 8 thousand rep, and your threatening someone with a 58 thousand rep with your puny negs.
Me thinks you should do some math, or learn about math and how the numbers and stuff werks.
I'm not negging him

I usually only neg aCW and that needs no explanation. I like having discussions with Silent Hunter. I'm not sure why he's so damn moody. He certainly hasn't been the only crabby one lately :shut:

Maybe he's on the American Atheists advisory board :idunno:
 

alwight

New member
:chuckle: Knitting would at least be a positive and productive pursuit. Mostly they present a negative message. Like their billboard campaigns mocking and otherwise disrespecting religion. They cannot put forth their message without taking shots at religious groups.
Religionists are simply reaping what they sow perhaps?
After all we atheists have been persecuted down the ages and been forced to listen to threats of eternal damnation and pay tithes to these organised extortion racketeers in all their fine regalia and silly hats, the worm has turned. :IA:

How quaint. Who assumes that all citizens of Utah are Mormon? :idunno:
You mean they're not? :shocked:

I'm glad we have American Atheists here to remind us that not all Utahns are Mormon.

Thanks, David! Money well spent. :plain:
Well I've learnt something about Utah today anyway. ;)
 

WizardofOz

New member
Religionists are simply reaping what they sow perhaps?
After all we atheists have been persecuted down the ages and been forced to listen to threats of eternal damnation and pay tithes to these organised extortion racketeers in all their fine regalia and silly hats, the worm has turned. :IA:

I'm sorry that this happened to you other people long ago. :p

You mean they're not? :shocked:

Well I've learnt something about Utah today anyway. ;)

:chuckle:

Will you be attending? There may be much more to learn from keynote speaker: professional football player Chris Kluwe or special guests Denise Stapley, winner of Survivor: Philippines, and Mark White, bass guitarist for the rock band Spin Doctors.

They seem a bit exclusive though
American Atheists would like to ensure that all atheists feel welcome at our National Convention



To which I ask: what about the Mormons? :idunno:
 

WizardofOz

New member
American Atheists vs. Port Authority of NY & NJ

Key points in the decision:​

- The Historical Exhibition will tell the narrative of the September 11 attacks and the 1993 World Trade Center bombing by incorporating over 800 artifacts. Within the Historical Exhibition will be a section entitled “Finding Meaning at Ground Zero,” which will portray how those at Ground Zero struggled to cope with the horrific situation they faced. To cope, some turned to religion, patriotism, or forging relationships with relatives of victims.

- The Foundation plans to have text panels explaining its historical significance to the recovery effort. Other objects of historical significance will also be in the section, including several pieces of “symbol steel,” which is steel that ironworkers at Ground Zero cut into religious and non-religious symbols, such as a Star of David, a Maltese cross, the Twin Towers, and the Manhattan skyline.

- Plaintiffs concede that including the cross as part of the Historical Exhibition has a secular purpose. By incorporating the artifact in the section, “Finding Meaning at Ground Zero,” part of the September 11 historical narrative is told more fully, as the cross and its accompanying textual panels helps demonstrate how those at Ground Zero coped with the devastation they witnessed during the rescue and recovery effort. The cross, therefore, meets the first prong because its actual purpose is historical and secular.

- Courts repeatedly have recognized that including a religious artifact in a museum will often times negate any endorsement. A typical museum setting, though not neutralizing the religious content of a religious painting, negates any message of endorsement of that content

- Plaintiffs attempt to distinguish the instant Museum from other museums by claiming that the purpose of religious displays in encyclopedic and art museums is to “display . . . many
religious objects from different cultures together to maximize their educational value.” Plaintiffs argue that since the Museum is a memorial museum, the cross’s inclusion signifies endorsement. This attempt to distinguish types of museums is unsupported by any case law. Moreover, simply because a museum was created in part to commemorate a tragedy or an event does not make it less of a museum. Numerous museums, such as the National World War Two Museum and the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, have both historical and memorial components yet are still museums.

- Plaintiffs assert that because the cross was used during Christian religious ceremonies, it is unlike historic religious objects that are housed in museums. They, however, cite to no case law making such a distinction. Rather, the fact that the artifact is housed in the historical Exhibit helps to negate any “sacred message” even though it “undeniably has a religious message.” Moreover, the acknowledgment that many rescuers and volunteers found solstice in the cross is not endorsement of their religion.

- Because a reasonable observer would be aware of the history and context of the cross and the Museum——especially given that the cross will be housed in the “Finding Meaning at Ground Zero” section, accompanied by placards explaining its meaning and the reason for its inclusion, and surrounded by secular artifacts——no reasonable observer would view the artifact as endorsing Christianity.

- the cross is going to be displayed as a subject of history thereby negating entanglement.

- Since the decision to include the artifact in the Museum’s Historical Exhibit has a secular purpose, Defendents have not advanced religion impermissibly, and the cross does not create
excessive entanglement between the state and religion. Thus, Plaintiffs’ Establishment Clause claim fails.
 

alwight

New member
Will you be attending? There may be much more to learn from keynote speaker: professional football player Chris Kluwe or special guests Denise Stapley, winner of Survivor: Philippines, and Mark White, bass guitarist for the rock band Spin Doctors.

They seem a bit exclusive though
American Atheists would like to ensure that all atheists feel welcome at our National Convention



To which I ask: what about the Mormons? :idunno:
No I won't go, I'm told that atheists all worship the devil and perform secret arcane ceremonies, way too scary.
However I'm now planning a trip to Utah. ;)
 

WizardofOz

New member
WizardofOz . . . the aCW of Atheism.
:rotfl:
Good one. Any desperate attempt to marginalize me will suit you at this point regardless of (in)accuracy.

I have no problem with atheists and get along with them just fine here and in real life. I am not advocating criminalizing atheism or anything along aCW lines of insanity and inanity. Organizations like American Atheists are a bunch of litigious busybody whiners. Groups like this are popping up all over and function only to mock religion and otherwise sue any religious expression that happens to offend their increasingly sensitive sensibilities (i.e. :allsmile:)

It is becoming increasingly ridiculous and should be mocked, your obvious bias in favor of their litigious agenda notwithstanding.

I'll likewise defend atheists against over-zealous litigation or whiners in general.

Do you have any relevant examples to offer? :think:

Take your time finding one.
 

Silent Hunter

Well-known member
:rotfl:
Good one. Any desperate attempt to marginalize me will suit you at this point regardless of (in)accuracy.
You marginalize yourself with your constant cry babying about "the atheist agenda" of removing religion from the public eye and putting into the private setting where it belongs.

I have no problem with atheists and get along with them just fine here and in real life.
Your constant whining about them belies your denial.

I am not advocating criminalizing atheism or anything along aCW lines of insanity and inanity.
:cool:

Organizations like American Atheists are a bunch of litigious busybody whiners.
. . . not so much unlike yourself then . . . :chuckle:

Groups like this are popping up all over and function only to mock religion and otherwise sue any religious expression that happens to offend their increasingly sensitive sensibilities (i.e. :allsmile:)
Would you deny a group their constitutional rights? Communist.

It is becoming increasingly ridiculous and should be mocked, your obvious bias in favor of their litigious agenda notwithstanding.
I'm not in favor of ALL litigations against "the christian agenda" . . . just the ones that I feel infringe on MY rights. I'm not a member of American Atheists or any similar organization.

I'll likewise defend atheists against over-zealous litigation or whiners in general.
Who are YOU to determine what is "over-zealous litigation"?

Do you have any relevant examples to offer?

Take your time finding one.
One of what?
 

WizardofOz

New member
You marginalize yourself with your constant cry babying about "the atheist agenda" of removing religion from the public eye and putting into the private setting where it belongs.

I didn't say anything about an "atheist agenda".

Very clever turning the whining accusation around on me. It's akin to "I know you are but what am I".

Compelling :plain:

Your constant whining about them belies your denial.
:doh:
Yup, I'm "whining" about whining. This has been addressed in this thread. I am focused on humanist litigation against religious expression. It's a specific type of whining.

You didn't even bother to read their complaint against the NY/NJ Port Authority, did you? Otherwise, you would understand the type of whining I am referring to.

Organizations like American Atheists are a bunch of litigious busybody whiners.
. . . not so much unlike yourself then . . . :chuckle:

If you don't know what "litigious" means you might be on to something.
Groups like this are popping up all over and function only to mock religion and otherwise sue any religious expression that happens to offend their increasingly sensitive sensibilities (i.e. )
Would you deny a group their constitutional rights? Communist.

:doh: I wouldn't deny them anything. People in this country are sue-happy. Many suits are without merit, however, and get dismissed (like this one has and will).

I will mock their frivolous nature as they deserve to be made fun of for their incessant, inane litigious whining.

I'm not in favor of ALL litigations against "the christian agenda" . . . just the ones that I feel infringe on MY rights. I'm not a member of American Atheists or any similar organization.

The beam cross doesn't infringe on any rights you actually have. Read the ruling I linked to. Anyone with above average intellect can understand why this case isn't infringing on....well, anything.

Who are YOU to determine what is "over-zealous litigation"?

The case against the Port Authority (and IRS) are without merit. One has been ruled on and not ruled in their favor and they are silly to appeal as if it will change the nature of the law. The state has motioned for dismissal in the other.

Over-zealous because they are sue-happy even when their case has next to no legal standing or even so much as precedent to appeal to that doesn't actually work against them.

One of what?

Did a dumber version of you hack your account? You used to be much more astute and could actually follow a conversation. Yikes.

I said, I'll likewise defend atheists against over-zealous litigation.

Do you have any examples of atheists being sued?

One of those (an example of that happening) :thumb:
 

Silent Hunter

Well-known member
I didn't say anything about an "atheist agenda".
Neither did I . . . it was a descriptor of what you're whining about (note the ""s).

Very clever turning the whining accusation around on me. It's akin to "I know you are but what am I".
You're the one whining . . . not me.

Yup, I'm "whining" about whining. This has been addressed in this thread. I am focused on humanist litigation against religious expression. It's a specific type of whining.
You're whining about atheists among whom you . . . "have no problem" and . . . "get along with them just fine" . . . :rolleyes:

You didn't even bother to read their complaint against the NY/NJ Port Authority, did you?
Did too.

Otherwise, you would understand the type of whining I am referring to.
That'll do, aCW . . . that'll do.

If you don't know what "litigious" means you might be on to something.
Again . . . you're the one whining and are wanting to take away the rights of a SMALL group.

I wouldn't deny them anything. People in this country are sue-happy. Many suits are without merit, however, and get dismissed (like this one has and will).
That's YOUR opinion. I think they were WELL WITHIN their rights to litigate the matter (see I do know what it means :p).

I will mock their frivolous nature as they deserve to be made fun of for their incessant, inane litigious whining.
So said the whining crybaby.

The beam cross doesn't infringe on any rights you actually have. Read the ruling I linked to. Anyone with above average intellect can understand why this case isn't infringing on....well, anything.
Sure it does . . . it infringes on my right to not have religion forced in my face at every opportunity.

The case against the Port Authority (and IRS) are without merit. One has been ruled on and not ruled in their favor and they are silly to appeal as if it will change the nature of the law. The state has motioned for dismissal in the other.
:blabla:

Happy yet?

Over-zealous because they are sue-happy even when their case has next to no legal standing or even so much as precedent to appeal to that doesn't actually work against them.
. . . I guess not . . . :sigh:

Did a dumber version of you hack your account? You used to be much more astute and could actually follow a conversation. Yikes.
. . . and you wonder why you get neg repped . . . :jawdrop:

I said, I'll likewise defend atheists against over-zealous litigation.

Do you have any examples of atheists being sued?

One of those (an example of that happening)
Why should Atheist get sued . . . they never go out of their way to offend anyone like . . . christians so often do.
 

WizardofOz

New member
Again . . . you're the one whining and are wanting to take away the rights of a SMALL group.

Please explain what rights you feel I am wanting to take away....

I wouldn't deny them anything. People in this country are sue-happy. Many suits are without merit, however, and get dismissed (like this one has and will).
That's YOUR opinion. I think they were WELL WITHIN their rights to litigate the matter (see I do know what it means :p).

Of course it is within their right. I have never so much as implied otherwise. I could sue anyone for any reason but it would be dismissed once the complaint was found to have no merit.

Like what happened to the American Atheist vs. NY/NJ Port Authority case...Frivolous suits get dismissed or ruled against all the time.

The beam cross doesn't infringe on any rights you actually have. Read the ruling I linked to. Anyone with above average intellect can understand why this case isn't infringing on....well, anything.
Sure it does . . . it infringes on my right to not have religion forced in my face at every opportunity.

And the :allsmile: continues unabated. :p

No such right exists. You're just making stuff up. No one is forcing anything in your face. You could NOT go to this memorial museum if it offends you just as you could not go to any museum that exhibit religious artifacts. Many of them already do.

Why aren't they being sued as well? Why are any religious artifacts allowed to be in any museum funded by taxpayer dollars? :think:

Why should Atheist get sued . . . they never go out of their way to offend anyone like . . . christians so often do.

That's a mighty broad brush you're using there. Maybe it is big enough to wipe away your crocodile tears :p
 

WizardofOz

New member
University Hotel Bans Bibles in Bedside Tables After Atheists Deem Them ‘Unwelcome Religious Propaganda'


In a letter sent late last month from Freedom From Religion Foundation staff attorney Patrick Elliot to Richard S. Reynolds, director of the Memorial Union, the atheist group asked that the Bibles be banned.

“It is a fundamental principle of Establishment Clause jurisprudence that a government entity cannot in any way promote, advance, or otherwise endorse religion,” Elliot wrote. “If a state-run university has a policy of providing a Christian religious text to guests, that policy facilitates illegal endorsement of Christianity over other religions and over nonreligion.”



Or this beacon of maturity....ATLANTA, GA (Catholic Online) - Imagine settling into your hotel bed, almost ready to sleep. Before turning off the bedside lamp, you reach into the nightstand to get the trusty Gideon Bible for a few verses before dozing off for the night. Instead of coming back with the Bible though, you find in your hand a copy of a book entitled "God is Not Great," or "The God Delusion."

This is what's about to happen to visitors who stay in Georgia's state parks and lodges over the months to come. Atheists have seized upon an opportunity to put their literature into state facilities alongside Gideon Bibles. source
 

resurrected

BANNED
Banned
according to purex, this doesn't happen


fingers-in-ears.jpg
 
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