ECT Which Gospel Preached During the Tribulation Period?

[notreligus]

No, there were two covenants, one with Abraham in uncircumcision and the other made with the circumcision at Sinai. In early Acts, there were people under each covenant, both in the promises of God.

That's what Gal 2:7 is all about. No one would say there was one covenant, but two audiences. Neither is there, in this passage, one gospel with two audiences. People who say that don't understand the promises made to Abraham.

The promises to Abraham have been fulfilled. There are two unconditional promises. One is that Israel would have their land. Because they didn't do what the Lord and Joshua instructed them to do, they lost it after they received it. They have receieved it again, as we know, but still not without unrestricted ownership. They will have a land again in the future without restriction of unbelievers.

The second promise is that a King would come through Abraham. You and I probably won't agree on this one but a King has come - King Jesus and He reigns over His Kingdom right now from Heaven and His throne will be here on the Earth in the future.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

The promises to Abraham have been fulfilled. There are two unconditional promises. One is that Israel would have their land. Because they didn't do what the Lord and Joshua instructed them to do, they lost it after they received it. They have receieved it again, as we know, but still not without unrestricted ownership. They will have a land again in the future without restriction of unbelievers.

The second promise is that a King would come through Abraham. You and I probably won't agree on this one but a King has come - King Jesus and He reigns over His Kingdom right now from Heaven and His throne will be here on the Earth in the future.

Do you see two covenants in Galatians but only one gospel?

 

[tetelestai]

The promises to Abraham have been fulfilled. There are two unconditional promises. One is that Israel would have their land. Because they didn't do what the Lord and Joshua instructed them to do, they lost it after they received it. They have receieved it again, as we know, but still not without unrestricted ownership. They will have a land again in the future without restriction of unbelievers.

The second promise is that a King would come through Abraham. You and I probably won't agree on this one but a King has come - King Jesus and He reigns over His Kingdom right now from Heaven and His throne will be here on the Earth in the future.

What makes you think Israel will have land on planet earth again.

Paul tells us that Christ received all the promises:

(1 Cor 1:20) For no matter how many promises God has made, they are "Yes" in Christ. And so through him the "Amen" is spoken by us to the glory of God.

The writer of Hebrews says the same thing:

(Heb 1:2) Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Both Paul and the writer of Hebrews tell us that if we are "in Christ" then we are heirs of the promises.

The land promise of the OT is fulfilled in Christ.

The MADists have a hard time understanding this.

Paul explains why the MADists cannot understand this:

(1 Cor 2:14) The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Amen!!!!

 

[tetelestai]

(Heb 11:16) But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

"a better country...an Heavenly....a city"'

Yet there are those who teach that one day Jesus is going to come back to planet earth and rule from the Middle East.

:bang:

 

[andyc]

(Heb 11:16) But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

"a better country...an Heavenly....a city"'

Yet there are those who teach that one day Jesus is going to come back to planet earth and rule from the Middle East.

:bang:

They can't understand that ruling involves subjection. This is why Christ's rule is simply to subject the nations in rebellion. When he has put an end to all reign, he himself will hand the kingdom back to the Father. Faith in Christ is all about our subjection to God in this life, in heaven we shall all be kings and priests. Christ doesn't want to rule over his people. There will be no need to judge those who have been made like him.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

(Heb 11:16) But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

"a better country...an Heavenly....a city"'

Yet there are those who teach that one day Jesus is going to come back to planet earth and rule from the Middle East.

There are also those who deny that when the Lord Jesus returns to earth that He will sit upon His throne and rule in an earthly kingdom:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).

We can also know that He will reign in mount Zion and in Jerusalem:

"Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously" (Isa.24:23).

 

[HisServant]

There are also those who deny that when the Lord Jesus returns to earth that He will sit upon His throne and rule in an earthly kingdom:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).

We can also know that He will reign in mount Zion and in Jerusalem:

"Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously" (Isa.24:23).

And he already is.. just not in the way that satisfies your need for sensationalism.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

And he already is.. just not in the way that satisfies your need for sensationalism.

If He was already reigning then He would be be reigning in mount Zion and in Jerusalem:

"Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously" (Isa.24:23).

But that is not happening now. He will not begin to reign until He returns to earth:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).

The following verse demonstrates that the Lord Jesus will rule from David’s Throne in Jerusalem:

"At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem" (Jer.3:17).

 

[HisServant]

If He was already reigning then He would be be reigning in mount Zion and in Jerusalem:

"Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously" (Isa.24:23).

But that is not happening now. He will not begin to reign until He returns to earth:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).

The following verse demonstrates that the Lord Jesus will rule from David’s Throne in Jerusalem:

"At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem" (Jer.3:17).

You do realize that there is a figurative mt zion and jerusalem in heaven right? Things on this world are an imperfect replica of what exists in heaven.

Why do you literally interpret some things and spiritually interpret others?... other when when it suits the framework you impose on scriptures.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You do realize that there is a figurative mt zion and jerusalem in heaven right?

Yes, I know it. But those who first received the following prophecies knew nothing about a heavenly mont Zion or a heavenly Jerusalem:

"Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously" (Isa.24:23).

"At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem" (Jer.3:17).

The only "mount Zion" and the only "Jerusalem" which those who first received these prophecies knew were the earthly ones. And the Lord knew that.

Therefore if He meant the "heavenly" mount Zion and the "heavenly" Jerusalem when He wrote those words then He would have been deliberately deceiving those who first received those prophecies.

Since He would never do such a thing then it becomes obvious that the mount Zion and Jerusalem which He had in mind are the earthly ones.

Why do you literally interpret some things and spiritually interpret others?

We must use our common sense and God given ability to reason out of the Scriptures.

 

[HisServant]

Yes, I know it. But those who first received the following prophecies knew nothing about a heavenly mont Zion or a heavenly Jerusalem:

"Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously" (Isa.24:23).

"At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem" (Jer.3:17).

The only "mount Zion" and the only "Jerusalem" which those who first received these prophecies knew were the earthly ones. And the Lord knew that.

Therefore if He meant the "heavenly" mount Zion and the "heavenly" Jerusalem when He wrote those words then He would have been deliberately deceiving those who first received those prophecies.

Since He would never do such a thing then it becomes obvious that the mount Zion and Jerusalem which He had in mind are the earthly ones.

We must use our common sense and God given ability to reason out of the Scriptures.

Really?... Old Testament people knew about the heavenly mt zion, temple and jerusalem.

I understand your problems with this issue.. as dispensation is totally devoid of any type of common sense approach to scripture.

 

[Nang]

This Law as Paul relates it, if you read Romans, is in Moses. He is talking about since the fall, not to include the fall and or before the fall.

Do not limit human obligations to God's Law to the Jewish race.

The law has existed since creation.

Adam was created and given commands from God.

All persons are born with a consciousness of right and wrong, due to Adam partaking of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. All persons have the natural laws of creation written on their hearts. So no man has any excuse for sinning against God.

It is a fallacy to believe that the Law did not arrive until God gave it to the nation of Israel through Moses.

Multitudes died in their sins before the time of the Jewish nation. Why? Because they were held in bondage to the law according to the original Covenant of Works made with Adam. Because they sinned, and were held guilty for their sins under the laws of God.

All people are born and remain under the Covenant of Works on this earth, due to the sin of Adam, and the only escape is by the grace of God.

Only those ransomed and transferred from under the Covenant of Works (Law) into a Covenant of Grace through faith in Jesus Christ are freed from the bondage of sin.

Every single person that has ever lived on this earth, has lived under either one covenant or the other. Does not matter when they lived, or what their nationality was.

One is either serving a death sentence for failing to keep the Covenant of Works (Law) or one is pardoned and freed under the Covenant of Grace by the power of God.

This could not be more straight-forward and truthful, for it is the subject of the entire Bible.

Nang

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

It is a fallacy to believe that the Law did not arrive until God gave it to the nation of Israel through Moses.

Nang

Gal 3
19: Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Really?... Old Testament people knew about the heavenly mt zion, temple and jerusalem.

I understand your problems with this issue.. as dispensation is totally devoid of any type of common sense approach to scripture.

Read what I said again.

I said that they knew nothing of a "heavenly"mount Zion and Jerusalem:

But those who first received the following prophecies knew nothing about a heavenly mont Zion or a heavenly Jerusalem.

You cannot even understand my simple words and you say that dispensationalists lack a common sense approach to scripture.

 

[andyc]

Gal 3
19: Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

I have to agree with STP here.
Paul explains in Romans 5 that from Adam to Moses there was no law.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

I have to agree with STP here.

You don't sound too excited about it.

 

[notreligus]

What makes you think Israel will have land on planet earth again.

Paul tells us that Christ received all the promises:

(1 Cor 1:20) For no matter how many promises God has made, they are "Yes" in Christ. And so through him the "Amen" is spoken by us to the glory of God.

The writer of Hebrews says the same thing:

(Heb 1:2) Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Both Paul and the writer of Hebrews tell us that if we are "in Christ" then we are heirs of the promises.

The land promise of the OT is fulfilled in Christ.

The MADists have a hard time understanding this.

Paul explains why the MADists cannot understand this:

(1 Cor 2:14) The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Amen!!!!

The problem I see on this board in general is that people want to acknowledge the Body of Christ but they forget who is in the Body of Christ.

The New Jerusalem is the final abode of the Body of Christ. Christ will reign as King over His final, eternal Kingdom right here on the Earth (per the new heavens and New Earth as Peter reported and we are told in Revelation). Who is in the Body? It is the remnant of Israel and the Gentiles who have been saved.

God has blinded Israel - still present tense. God will deal with Israel again during the Tribulation Period. A remnant will be saved and will recognize Him as the True Messiah when He returns. They will become part of the Body of Christ. The "new man," as Paul calls it, has been created in Christ. There are no longer Jews and Gentiles once you have become part of the Body. EVERYONE who is saved is viewed through the Blood of Christ. If this is not true then rip out Hebrews and all of Paul's epistles. And, Christ's work on the cross was not finished as He said it was.

I believe it is because of a work of the sovereign God, as told in Romans Chapter Eleven, that He has not discarded the Jews/Israel. I don't understand it but just take what we're told in the Bible by faith. One thing I do know is that before the foundation of the world, God envisioned the Church. The Church is not just Israel and the Church is not just the saved Gentiles. And, I also know that God does not have both a wife and a bride.

Rom 11:25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
Rom 11:26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob";
Rom 11:27 "and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins."
Rom 11:28 As regards the gospel, they are enemies of God for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.


Which child would a good parent love more, the oldest child or the youngest child?

 

[HisServant]

Read what I said again.

I said that they knew nothing of a "heavenly"mount Zion and Jerusalem:


You cannot even understand my simple words and you say that dispensationalists lack a common sense approach to scripture.

I know exactly what you said.. and it just proves what I am saying.

 

[Nang]

I have to agree with STP here.
Paul explains in Romans 5 that from Adam to Moses there was no law.

If there was no law at all before Moses, there would have been no sins or guilt imputed, and if there was no guilt, there would have been no deaths.

But there was death, there was guilt and sin, which logically must mean there was a creational and natural law.

What Paul is teaching about in Romans 5:13 is the formal Law. Adam received formal commands (which he broke) and the nation of Israel received The Ten Commandments, which were a republication of the laws given to Adam.

Details (many details!) were ADDED. In order to fully reveal the sinful condition of mankind.

But even those who never heard any direct commands from God like Adam or the Israelites who received the Ten Commandments, still died. They were without excuse and held guilty and served the death sentence. God would not be just to hold any person deserving of death apart from a forensic ruling. And a forensic ruling is imposition of Law!

The natural law of creation that reveals the Godhead, saves no soul, but rather condemns all mankind:

"For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even the eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse because, although they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened." Romans 1:20-21

This reflects a breaking of the creational, natural laws of God as surely as any violation of one of the formal Ten Commandments. All reveal a Covenant of Works that ALL men are responsible and obligated to keep with God.

One of the worst fruits of dispensationalism, is the creation of a mindset that reveals the tendency to chop Godly truths up to fit selected time periods.

But the guilt of mankind, for offending the laws of God (natural and formal) is historically universal, and has existed from the beginning of time.

Nang

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

If there was no law at all before Moses, there would have been no sins or guilt imputed, and if there was no guilt, there would have been no deaths.

If you are in Christ, your sins are gone, and no guilt is imputed.
Yet, you will still die.