Hi and tell that to the KJV-ONLY people , as the KJV has the English word " RESTORE ."
DAN P
ECT what will PENTECOSTALS DO ABOUT , Acts 1:6 ?
- Thread starter DAN P
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Hi and tell that to the KJV-ONLY people , as the KJV has the English word " RESTORE ."
DAN P
False Prophet
New member
Is what was spoken about in Joel to be continuous or is a said and done deal?
Hi , and if you mean Joel 2:28 is a OT Prophetic verse to be in operation in Acts 2:17 and verse 17 is in the Greek Imperfect Tense and will be BEGIN again in the last 3 1/2 years of the Great Tribulation !!
dan p
andyc
New member
It's not in the imperfect tense, its "future active indicative".
Already had to tell you this twice.
Hi , and I must have MISSED IT and should have checked as there are 5 verbs in the FUTURE TENSE with 2 in the ACTIVE VOICE and one in the Passive Voice and all in the Indicative Mood .
SAITH /LEGO is in the Present Tense , Active Voice and Indicative Mood .
Acts 2 people like you will never EXPLAIN why they are in the FUTURE tense , want to give it a TRY ??:chuckle::chuckle:
I will ask TWICE because I know you will never answer or will give a convoluted answer !!
dan p
andyc
New member
wait a minute.
I can easily explain the tenses, as they speak for themselves. Why have you all of a sudden abandoned the silly idea that it was all in the imperfect tense?
andyc
New member
"Shall prophesy" is 'future active indicative". It is something that will happen (future), sons and daughter will do it (active), it is definitely going to happen as determined by God who spoke through Joel (indicative). And from context, it is happening now as witnessed by the crowds, and as explained by Peter.
With the dreaming dreams and seeing visions, the voice is middle, probably because these are experiences that people have no control over. They simply participate in them as and when they happen.
Whether or not the gifts are meant to be temporary is to be understood by the context. The fact that the prophecy mentions the end of this world, dictates that the outpouring will continue on until the end of the world. This is absolutely undeniable.
So let's look at it further.
Matthew 24:29-30
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
We see the same kind of apocalyptic events being described by Jesus, and then he is revealed in power and glory.
1Cor 1:2-7
3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 4 I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given to you by Christ Jesus, 5 that you were enriched in everything by Him in all utterance and all knowledge, 6 even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, 7 so that you come short in no gift, eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ
Now this is significant because Paul didn't know when Jesus would be revealed, but he understood that the church should not be lacking in the gifts of the Spirit while waiting for Jesus to be revealed.
With the dreaming dreams and seeing visions, the voice is middle, probably because these are experiences that people have no control over. They simply participate in them as and when they happen.
Whether or not the gifts are meant to be temporary is to be understood by the context. The fact that the prophecy mentions the end of this world, dictates that the outpouring will continue on until the end of the world. This is absolutely undeniable.
So let's look at it further.
Matthew 24:29-30
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
We see the same kind of apocalyptic events being described by Jesus, and then he is revealed in power and glory.
1Cor 1:2-7
3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 4 I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given to you by Christ Jesus, 5 that you were enriched in everything by Him in all utterance and all knowledge, 6 even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, 7 so that you come short in no gift, eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ
Now this is significant because Paul didn't know when Jesus would be revealed, but he understood that the church should not be lacking in the gifts of the Spirit while waiting for Jesus to be revealed.
revpete
New member
Ok, know I think I'm beginning to understand you a little bit. You are hurt and bitter (IMO). Even if it was your ma, surely she was speaking out of her own experience? You simply can't dismiss the whole thing because of that!
Sorry Dan but you're going to have to bear with me a bit on this. What is the problem with 1 Cor 15:8 and what is the 12 in and 12 out problem as I've never heard of this before?
Pete
revpete
New member
1 Cor 15 : 8
The apostle considers himself as coming after the time in which Jesus Christ personally conversed with his disciples; and that, therefore, to see him at all, he must see him in this extraordinary way. Some have entered into a very disgusting detail on the figure used here by the apostle. The words, ωσπερειτωεκτρωματι, signify not merely one born out of due time, but one born before his time. But it is likely that the apostle had a different meaning; and that he refers to the original institution of the twelve apostles, in the rank of whom he never stood, being appointed not to fill up a place among the twelve, but as an extra and additional apostle.
Pete
Ok, know I think I'm beginning to understand you a little bit. You are hurt and bitter (IMO). Even if it was your ma, surely she was speaking out of her own experience? You simply can't dismiss the whole thing because of that!
Sorry Dan but you're going to have to bear with me a bit on this. What is the problem with 1 Cor 15:8 and what is the 12 in and 12 out problem as I've never heard of this before?
Pete
Hi , and in (IMO ) you are wrong , and have never been bitter at my mother and since she has passed away , I can not talk to her about anything .
The reason you have never heard of this QUESTION as you are not or belong to a dispensational group , and the first time I heard of it was in 1960 !!
Are the 12 Apostles " IN " or " OUT " of the Body of Christ , is the question !
Gal 3:28 and 1 Cor 15:8 answers that and solves it !!
Another question is in Rom 16:7 , how can Andronicus and Junia be " in Christ " before Paul ??
dan p
revpete
New member
Ta for your reply Dan,
I did not mean you were bitter at your ma. I meant that what your ma said may have made you bitter against Pentecostalism as a movement.
These questions are easily solved if you just take off your MAD glasses and just allow scripture to speak in its context.
The Gal and Cor scriptures you mentioned - the whole 12 in 12 out thing just is not applicable if you put the birth of the church at the day of Pentecost and stop seeing things that are just not there.
Same goes for Rom 16:7 they were in Christ before Paul because they were converted before Paul, some where between Acts 2 and 9 and their conversions were not recorded.
No doubt you will not agree but there it for all to see.
I say it again Dan, your use of phrases like: "you do not belong to a dispensational group" implying that I am at some sort of disadvantage because of it, is cultish and elitist.
Pete
Word based mystic
New member
I find that a lot of people develop their doctrine on their own experience or lack of.
Ta for your reply Dan,
I did not mean you were bitter at your ma. I meant that what your ma said may have made you bitter against Pentecostalism as a movement.
These questions are easily solved if you just take off your MAD glasses and just allow scripture to speak in its context.
The Gal and Cor scriptures you mentioned - the whole 12 in 12 out thing just is not applicable if you put the birth of the church at the day of Pentecost and stop seeing things that are just not there.
Same goes for Rom 16:7 they were in Christ before Paul because they were converted before Paul, some where between Acts 2 and 9 and their conversions were not recorded.
No doubt you will not agree but there it for all to see.
I say it again Dan, your use of phrases like: "you do not belong to a dispensational group" implying that I am at some sort of disadvantage because of it, is cultish and elitist.
Pete
Hi and Pentecostalism , only created DOUBT in a 8 years old and kept wondering how to be saved !! Speaking in " GLOSSA " means Languages not GIBBERISH !!
You are at a disadvantage whether you know it or not as 1 Cor 13:11 calls all TONGUERS , INFANTS and CHILDISH and I can not call you ELITISTS and as you do not have the knowledge !!
You have not understood the DILEMMA nor the solution of the " 12 In or the 12 OUT , and also how can a Kingdom believer and a Dispensationalist be " in Christ " at the same time !!
If they are easy , why did you not explain what it means ??
Whay not start a thread and explain how you are SAVED , and the Protocol that God used to save you , a soft ball for you !!
dan p
revpete
New member
This 12 in 12 out stuff is dispensationalist fantasy, it is simply not there!
Yet in the next chapter 1 Cor 14:18. Paul thanks God that he speaks with tongues more than all of them. How childish and immature of him
. As for an explanation of the verses, I did. Again Dan, to me and all orthodox Christians there is no difference between them. Although I will say that you and I would define Dispensationalism in completely different terms.
Paul States that the one who speaks in tongues speaks to God and that no one understands him. Again I have read and heard definite languages being spoken as the gift of tongues is employed. I do agree though that the majority is in the flesh but as previously stated that does not disprove the genuine.
Pete
This 12 in 12 out stuff is dispensationalist fantasy, it is simply not there!
Yet in the next chapter 1 Cor 14:18. Paul thanks God that he speaks with tongues more than all of them. How childish and immature of him
As for an explanation of the verses, I did. Again Dan, to me and all orthodox Christians there is no difference between them. Although I will say that you and I would define Dispensationalism in completely different terms.
Paul States that the one who speaks in tongues speaks to God and that no one understands him. Again I have read and heard definite languages being spoken as the gift of tongues is employed. I do agree though that the majority is in the flesh but as previously stated that does not disprove the genuine.
Pete
Hi , and this then , means that 1 Cor 13:8 the FUTURE TENSES are not used !!
The disciples spoke in GLOSSA /LANGUAGES was that IMMATURE and CHILDISH ??
LOL on you , don't you see !!
What you all fail to see , is the Transition from the Gospel of the Kingdom message to one of Grace .
Remember , that Paul spoke more Languages , did more miracles than the 12 , and raised people from the dead and was the " I AM " while in his ministry and FORGAVE in the Person of Christ , WHY !!
It valided his ministry to the 12 and and to the Jews that Paul did minisiter too !
Your refusal to believe Paul is well NOTED HERE !!
But take heart , you can always advance up from where you are now !!
dan p
Only God knows. you want a year or a period in time ? it sound like you have had bad experiences with Pentecostals. i'm only guessing. like any church or any group of people anywhere, there is truth and deception. be "detective" like in your observations and Holy Spirit discerns, sooner or later -
atrol:Only God knows. you want a year or a period in time ? it sound like you have had bad experiences with Pentecostals. i'm only guessing. like any church or any group of people anywhere, there is truth and deception. be "detective" like in your observations and Holy Spirit discerns, sooner or later -
Hi , and we all started at some point in the time or beginning !
I just did not meet the RIGHT teaching , until late in life !!
The last 20 years have been a roller coaster for me !!
dan p
Hi Dan,
Some time ago I went to a church who believe one is not saved unless one speaks in tongues. They also believed that three should speak in tongues and one interpret.
Well, a lady sitting by, stood and interpreted with such wisdom, for not a short time, that I have never heard before or since about raising children.
Afterward I approached her with some questions, and to my amazement she had no idea what I was asking.
As I drove home, the Lord spoke to me and said--
You did not believe it was Me, did you.
I felt ashamed.
LA
Some time ago I went to a church who believe one is not saved unless one speaks in tongues. They also believed that three should speak in tongues and one interpret.
Well, a lady sitting by, stood and interpreted with such wisdom, for not a short time, that I have never heard before or since about raising children.
Afterward I approached her with some questions, and to my amazement she had no idea what I was asking.
As I drove home, the Lord spoke to me and said--
You did not believe it was Me, did you.
I felt ashamed.
LA