ECT WHAT PHIL 4:9 IS SAYING TO ALL !!

[Derf]

Hi and anyone who did believe the MYSTERY and than FELL FROM GRACE is still saved and you get rewarded by preaching Grace as 1 Cor 3:10-15 !!

Preach any thing else , you get zero rewards !!

dAN P

you mean like Simon the sorceror?
[Act 8:13, 21 KJV] 13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. ... 21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.

 

[DAN P]

I guess I'm a little too dense to see anything about doing a mystery in any of those verses.

Neither do I see OSAS in any of those verses.

But is OSAS the prime point of the gospel? Seems doubtful to me. The prime point of the gospel seems to be the salvation and reconciliation to God and to each other of both Jews and Gentiles. And if OSAS isn't the prime point of the gospel, it's unlikely to be the subject of the mystery that God worked so hard at to keep hidden and secret from the ages.

OSAS relies for its importance on salvation, for without it there's no discussion about whether someone can lose their salvation. OSAS has a tendency to elevate itself above the more important message of the gospel of Christ, bringing members of His body into conflict, in opposition of His wishes that we would be one in spirit and baptism.

You made another reply that I'll go look at.

Hi and at the point of salvation there are about 33 things that are a benefit to all !!

Like OSAS

Sealed

Baptized into Christ death

Placed into the Body of Christ

Reconciled unto God

We are to be Raptures/or DEPARTURE

Just to mention a FEW !

The MYSTERY is ONLY given to Paul Acts 20:24

We are to teach the MYSTERY , Eph 3:9

This MYSTERY IS found in Rom 16:25-26 , Col 1:25-26 which was HIDDEN from All the AGES until given to Paul

This MYSTERY was NEVER given to the 12 apostles

These are just a FEW !!

DAN P

 

[Derf]

Read my signature, all of it - pay attention to the gospel of your salvation and the mystery

1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV and

Colossians 1:25-26 KJV 27

Ok. I read it. So how do you "do" a mystery? Paul's point seemed to be that it WAS a mystery--but that it was a mystery no longer, as it was revealed to the saints (Col 1:26). Thus, there's no mystery anymore, so even if one could actually "do" a mystery, there's no mystery to "do" anymore. The mystery was only mysterious until it was revealed, though some may have ignored its revelation

 

[DAN P]

you mean like Simon the sorceror?
[Act 8:13, 21 KJV] 13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. ... 21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.

Hi and reading Acts 8:22 the word in Acts does not shaow that Simon ever repented !!

Notice that the Holy Spirit had already FALLEN in acts 2:4 , SO why is there a LAYING ON OF HANDS to receive the Holy Spirit ??

Because not all Jews did attend Pentecost as Israel were scattered all over the Roman empire !!

dan p

 

[Derf]

Hi and at the point of salvation there are about 33 things that are a benefit to all !!

...

The MYSTERY is ONLY given to Paul Acts 20:24

We are to teach the MYSTERY , Eph 3:9

This MYSTERY IS found in Rom 16:25-26 , Col 1:25-26 which was HIDDEN from All the AGES until given to Paul

This MYSTERY was NEVER given to the 12 apostles

These are just a FEW !!

DAN P

How did the nations get the mystery (Rom 16:26), but the 12 apostles didn't get the mystery. Especially since it was made known by the prophetic scriptures (thus it wasn't a message given only to Paul, but to anyone who read the prophetic scriptures). Admittedly it wasn't understood by all (or any?) that read the prophetic scriptures, until it was explained.

But again, once a mystery is explained (by Paul), then it's out in the open--there's no more mystery.

 

[Derf]

Hi and reading Acts 8:22 the word in Acts does not shaow that Simon ever repented !!

Notice that the Holy Spirit had already FALLEN in acts 2:4 , SO why is there a LAYING ON OF HANDS to receive the Holy Spirit ??

Because not all Jews did attend Pentecost as Israel were scattered all over the Roman empire !!

dan p

But that's ok, because you said that as long as one believed, even if one falls from grace, he still is saved, just without rewards, right? Repentance isn't required, according to that line of thinking, so why bring it up at all?

Peter seemed to think repentance was required, but you don't seem to think so. Or am I misunderstanding what you wrote?

I don't understand your question about the Holy Spirit. Is it related?

 

[Danoh]

Hi and so you are a PENTECOSTAL when the need arises and you are the one tying to bait me !!

I will be glad to debate you on any thing , So how about how you were saved ?

Or explain the 12 IN and 12 OUT postion ?

Or exp;ain how some one can be " in Christ " before Paul !!

And explain how you were SAVED ??

You are UP ?

DAN P

Lol - in the immortal icon of one of my favorite TOL MAD posters....

:chuckle:

 

[Danoh]

Hi and at the point of salvation there are about 33 things that are a benefit to all !!
DAN P

He read that somewhere :chuckle:

 

[DAN P]

How did the nations get the mystery (Rom 16:26), but the 12 apostles didn't get the mystery. Especially since it was made known by the prophetic scriptures (thus it wasn't a message given only to Paul, but to anyone who read the prophetic scriptures). Admittedly it wasn't understood by all (or any?) that read the prophetic scriptures, until it was explained.

But again, once a mystery is explained (by Paul), then it's out in the open--there's no more mystery.

Hi and Paul was the only to teach the SECRET and has been preached for over 2000 years !!

And we are to explain to others what Eph 3:9 is !!

dan p

 

[Danoh]

Hi and Paul was the only to teach the SECRET and has been preached for over 2000 years !!

And we are to explain to others what Eph 3:9 is !!

dan p

Yep :thumb:

 

[Derf]

Hi and Paul was the only to teach the SECRET and has been preached for over 2000 years !!

And we are to explain to others what Eph 3:9 is !!

dan p

That's funny. I thought Peter knew and taught about a mystery, too. Maybe it was a different mystery??? What were those guys searching out, then, in the midst of prophesying about the mystery?

[1Pe 1:5, 9-12, 20 KJV] 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. ... 9 Receiving the end of your faith, [even] the salvation of [your] souls. 10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace [that should come] unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. ... 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

It looks to me like the mystery Peter was dealing with was "salvation". Was that not what Paul's mystery was? Paul seemed to think that the mystery was revealed to Peter as well. Look a few verse earlier than your cited Eph 3:9:

[Eph 3:5 KJV] 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

So if Paul and Peter are talking about the same mystery, and Peter's mystery is "salvation", then Paul's mystery also must be "salvation", revealed both to him and to the other apostles according to Eph 3:5.

I hope that's what you are trying to explain to others.

 

[Danoh]

No derf - all Peter is referring to is a commonly recurring theme in the OT; Israel's Prophets would see Israel's coming glory in their coming Messiah one day and would get to wondering about and longing to see, His day in their day.

 

[Derf]

No derf - all Peter is referring to is a commonly recurring theme in the OT; Israel's Prophets would see Israel's coming glory in their coming Messiah one day and would get to wondering about and longing to see, His day in their day.

Hi Danoh,
I don't deny that Peter is talking about the coming of their Messiah. What I suggest is that Paul also is talking of the coming of the Messiah in Eph 3:3-5. Specifically Eph 3:5 that speaks of the revealing of the mystery unto the holy apostles.

That mystery is defined for us in Eph 3:6, "That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel".

"Of the same body" as whom? As the Jews. Was Peter in agreement? Apparently, as he referred to these "strangers" (from 1 Pet 1:1) he was addressing as having become the people of God ([1Pe 2:10] Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.)

And certainly Peter was well aware of that mystery, having received it from the Holy Spirit, saying: [Act 10:34-36 KJV] 34 ...Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. 36 The word which [God] sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all)

 

[Danoh]

Hi Danoh,
I don't deny that Peter is talking about the coming of their Messiah. What I suggest is that Paul also is talking of the coming of the Messiah in Eph 3:3-5. Specifically Eph 3:5 that speaks of the revealing of the mystery unto the holy apostles.

That mystery is defined for us in Eph 3:6, "That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel".

"Of the same body" as whom? As the Jews. Was Peter in agreement? Apparently, as he referred to these "strangers" (from 1 Pet 1:1) he was addressing as having become the people of God ([1Pe 2:10] Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.)

And certainly Peter was well aware of that mystery, having received it from the Holy Spirit, saying: [Act 10:34-36 KJV] 34 ...Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. 36 The word which [God] sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all)

Fellow heirs with Christ - of His same body with Him - as the fulness of Him that filleth all positions of rank and authority in the heavenly aspect of God's Two Fold Purpose: Prophecy (the Earth) and Mystery (the Heavenlies).

The commenwealth of Israel was then temporarily in abeyance - even before Israel fell...

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

The Body is comprised of former lost Israelites as Gentiles (UNcircumcision of the heart) together with formerly lost Gentiles in the flesh.

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

 

[DAN P]

That's
So if Paul and Peter are talking about the same mystery, and Peter's mystery is "salvation", then Paul's mystery also must be "salvation", revealed both to him and to the other apostles according to Eph 3:5.

I hope that's what you are trying to explain to others.

Hi and read Rom 16:25 , and Eph 1:4 and 2 Tim
1:9 !!

Only Paul was told about the Revelation of this SECRET and only revealed to Paul and never to the 12 apostles !!

dan p

 

[Derf]

Fellow heirs with Christ - of His same body with Him - as the fulness of Him that filleth all positions of rank and authority in the heavenly aspect of God's Two Fold Purpose: Prophecy (the Earth) and Mystery (the Heavenlies).

I suppose that might make some sense if the previous chapter had not be replete with references to the joining of Jews and Gentiles, rather than the joining of Gentiles with Christ.
[Eph 2:12-22 KJV]
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us];
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone];
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

The commenwealth of Israel was then temporarily in abeyance - even before Israel fell...

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

If the kingdom of Israel is the same as the commonwealth of Israel, then the commonwealth must have been in abeyance for quite some time, no later than 37 BC. If the kingdom of Israel is NOT the same as the commonwealth of Israel, then I must be missing your point.

The Body is comprised of former lost Israelites as Gentiles (UNcircumcision of the heart) together with formerly lost Gentiles in the flesh.

Is there a third category, some that were not lost? If not then I think your point is moot, as vs 19 seems to talk of someone joining a body of "saints" and "the household of God". I think your next quotes answer the question in the negative, making your point moot:

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

I agree that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, that all need a savior. But I think Paul was pointing out that at one time, salvation wasn't even available to the Gentiles, but now it is (in Jesus Christ). Salvation WAS available to the Jews (as a promise) and it still is (as a fulfillment of that promise in Jesus Christ).

 

[Danoh]

Perhaps pointing out one hole in your above will soften you some sufficient to your considering possible holes in your other points as well...

Esther 8:9 Then were the king's scribes called at that time in the third month, that is, the month Sivan, on the three and twentieth day thereof; and it was written according to all that Mordecai commanded unto the Jews, and to the lieutenants, and the deputies and rulers of the provinces which are from India unto Ethiopia, an hundred twenty and seven provinces, unto every province according to the writing thereof, and unto every people after their language, and to the Jews according to their writing, and according to their language. 8:10 And he wrote in the king Ahasuerus' name, and sealed it with the king's ring, and sent letters by posts on horseback, and riders on mules, camels, and young dromedaries: 8:11 Wherein the king granted the Jews which were in every city to gather themselves together, and to stand for their life, to destroy, to slay, and to cause to perish, all the power of the people and province that would assault them, both little ones and women, and to take the spoil of them for a prey, 8:12 Upon one day in all the provinces of king Ahasuerus, namely, upon the thirteenth day of the twelfth month, which is the month Adar. 8:13 The copy of the writing for a commandment to be given in every province was published unto all people, and that the Jews should be ready against that day to avenge themselves on their enemies. 8:14 So the posts that rode upon mules and camels went out, being hastened and pressed on by the king's commandment. And the decree was given at Shushan the palace. 8:15 And Mordecai went out from the presence of the king in royal apparel of blue and white, and with a great crown of gold, and with a garment of fine linen and purple: and the city of Shushan rejoiced and was glad. 8:16 The Jews had light, and gladness, and joy, and honour. 8:17 And in every province, and in every city, whithersoever the king's commandment and his decree came, the Jews had joy and gladness, a feast and a good day. And many of the people of the land became Jews; for the fear of the Jews fell upon them.

 

[Derf]

Hi and read Rom 16:25 , and Eph 1:4 and 2 Tim
1:9 !!

Only Paul was told about the Revelation of this SECRET and only revealed to Paul and never to the 12 apostles !!

dan p

Hi Dan,
I was hoping you would tell me what this wonderful SECRET was that was never revealed to the 12, as I had given reference that Peter knew about a SECRET, too. And if they are the same SECRET, then it wasn't exclusively Paul's SECRET. Now, it may have been Paul's exclusive ministry, to go to the Gentiles, but it was only exclusive in a general way, since Peter also went to the Gentiles, as did most of the others of the original apostles. (For instance, John was believed to become the leader of the Ephesus church, the target of your other citation.)

Paul also tells us that his gospel was not exclusive in the verse following your citation:
[Rom 16:26 KJV] But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

How could it be made known to all nations, but the 12 never figured it out? Aren't they part of "all nations"?

 

[Derf]

Perhaps pointing out one hole in your above will soften you some sufficient to your considering possible holes in your other points as well...

Esther 8:9 Then were the king's scribes called at that time in the third month, that is, the month Sivan, on the three and twentieth day thereof; and it was written according to all that Mordecai commanded unto the Jews, and to the lieutenants, and the deputies and rulers of the provinces which are from India unto Ethiopia, an hundred twenty and seven provinces, unto every province according to the writing thereof, and unto every people after their language, and to the Jews according to their writing, and according to their language. 8:10 And he wrote in the king Ahasuerus' name, and sealed it with the king's ring, and sent letters by posts on horseback, and riders on mules, camels, and young dromedaries: 8:11 Wherein the king granted the Jews which were in every city to gather themselves together, and to stand for their life, to destroy, to slay, and to cause to perish, all the power of the people and province that would assault them, both little ones and women, and to take the spoil of them for a prey, 8:12 Upon one day in all the provinces of king Ahasuerus, namely, upon the thirteenth day of the twelfth month, which is the month Adar. 8:13 The copy of the writing for a commandment to be given in every province was published unto all people, and that the Jews should be ready against that day to avenge themselves on their enemies. 8:14 So the posts that rode upon mules and camels went out, being hastened and pressed on by the king's commandment. And the decree was given at Shushan the palace. 8:15 And Mordecai went out from the presence of the king in royal apparel of blue and white, and with a great crown of gold, and with a garment of fine linen and purple: and the city of Shushan rejoiced and was glad. 8:16 The Jews had light, and gladness, and joy, and honour. 8:17 And in every province, and in every city, whithersoever the king's commandment and his decree came, the Jews had joy and gladness, a feast and a good day. And many of the people of the land became Jews; for the fear of the Jews fell upon them.

I think your point is that Gentiles could be saved by becoming Jews (please correct me if I'm mistaken). That could be so, but it wouldn't attest to anything, as when they became Jews, they were no longer Gentiles. Thus, Gentiles still had no access to salvation--they fell under the rule of Jewish law.

A perhaps crude illustration would be to point out that boys are only allowed to become Girl Scouts by becoming girls. It is true that boys would have access to the club, but the Girl Scouts would still never have any boys in their club. The wall of separation is still in place.

But Paul was adamant that the wall was no longer separating them. [Eph 2:14 KJV] 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us];

 

[DAN P]

Hi Dan,
I was hoping you would tell me what this wonderful SECRET was that was never revealed to the 12, as I had given reference that Peter knew about a SECRET, too. And if they are the same SECRET, then it wasn't exclusively Paul's SECRET. Now, it may have been Paul's exclusive ministry, to go to the Gentiles, but it was only exclusive in a general way, since Peter also went to the Gentiles, as did most of the others of the original apostles. (For instance, John was believed to become the leader of the Ephesus church, the target of your other citation.)

Paul also tells us that his gospel was not exclusive in the verse following your citation:
[Rom 16:26 KJV] But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

How could it be made known to all nations, but the 12 never figured it out? Aren't they part of "all nations"?

Hi , and did you find a verse where Peter and the 12 apostles preached the MYSTERY ?

So ETHNOS in the Greek is a transliterated word and just means that there are many meaning , like :

#1 , Race
#2 , Heathen
#3 Gentiles
34, Nation

If it was a MYSTERY from the foundation and BEFORE the worlds were made Col 1:26 and only given to Paul !!

The correct translation of ETHNOS in Rom 16:26 is GENTILES , because it in Wtitten in a letter to the Body of Christ and not Jewish !!

It is also in the AORIST TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE and a PARTICIPLE and that verb GNONIZO the Passed tense at the message was given to Paul and it should be translated " HAVING BEEN MADE " where HAVING ending in " ING " is the participlke !!

dan p