What is the Gospel?

Sonnet

Sonnet

New member
Right Divider said:
If you are not preaching the gospel of the grace of God, then you're preaching the wrong gospel.


Please make careful note of WHO Jesus is talking to. Everything Jesus said in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John is specially about Israel.

Matt 28:16-20 (AKJV/PCE)​
(28:16) ¶ Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. (28:17) And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. (28:18) And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. (28:19) ¶ Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (28:20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen. ​

"Churchianity" has confused people for two thousand years.

These were the apostles of the twelve tribes of Israel.

Matt 19:28 (AKJV/PCE)​
(19:28) And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. ​

The context of Jesus' earth ministry is His relationship with His people, Israel.

Rom 15:8-12 (AKJV/PCE)​
(15:8) Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises [made] unto the fathers: (15:9) And that the Gentiles might glorify God for [his] mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name. (15:10) And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people. (15:11) And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people. (15:12) And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

​
If you read the Bible in its context, you'll understand what it means. The Bible is a book of details.
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I understand what you're saying and have studied the subject somewhat in the past. If the Gentiles are grafted in as per Romans 11, then the Kingdom applies to them too and would form part of the Gospel as far as I can see.

Where in scripture is there an explicit verse that limits the universality of Jesus's Mat. 24:14 statement?
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
Sonnet said:
I understand what you're saying and have studied the subject somewhat in the past. If the Gentiles are grafted in as per Romans 11, then the Kingdom applies to them too and would form part of the Gospel as far as I can see.
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Your understanding of Romans 11 is flawed. That is another common aspect of "Churchianity".

Sonnet said:
Where in scripture is there an explicit verse that limits the universality of Jesus's Mat. 24:14 statement?
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Once again, I think that "Churchianity" has its hold on you.

The kingdom will be preached to all and this will be with with Israel as the head nation. This is NOT what is going on today where God is freely dispensing His grace without distinction to Israel and the Gentiles.

Can you not see the context of Matthew and Jesus' earthly ministry?

Matt 10:5-8 (AKJV/PCE)​
(10:5) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not: (10:6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (10:7) And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. (10:8) Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. ​

Who is raising the dead these days?
 
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Sonnet

Sonnet

New member
Right Divider said:
Your understanding of Romans 11 is flawed. That is another common aspect of "Churchianity".
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Then please correct me.

Once again, I think that "Churchianity" has its hold on you.


The kingdom will be preached to all and this will with with Israel as the head nation. This is NOT what is going on today where God is freely dispensing His grace without distinction to Israel and the Gentiles.

Can you not see the context of Matthew and Jesus' earthly ministry?

Matt 10:5-8 (AKJV/PCE)​
(10:5) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not: (10:6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (10:7) And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. (10:8) Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. ​

Who is raising the dead these days?
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You may be right but without a resolution of Jesus's seeming error in Matthew 24:34 it's might just be an academic argument.
 
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Danoh

New member
Sonnet said:
Then please correct me....
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Romans 11's grafting in refers to the grace IN Christ that God was now offering to both lost Jew and Gentile, absent of the former chosen people Jew / alien Gentile distinction.

Romans 9-11 build on and are based on Romans 1:18-3:30.

Which is the twin issue of the wrath of God that both Jew and Gentile ended up worthy of, and the Grace of God in His Son that God was now offering both absent of the chosen people Jew / aliens from God Gentiles distinction - "for" with Israel's fall "all" had been "concluded" as having "sinned" that is, "all the world" was "found guilty before God" or had been concluded as having "come short of the glory of God" Rom. 3.

This twin theme of wrath deserved but grace offered is one that Paul repeats throughout his writings.

Gal. 2 and Eph. 2 being two more examples of it, among others mentioned by Paul.

The grafting in is not salvation, rather it refers to being in a place of access to grace, of access to the offer of grace - an open door of faith, if you will.

Acts 17:11, 12
Rom. 5:8
 
Sonnet

Sonnet

New member
Danoh said:
Romans 11's grafting in refers to the grace IN Christ that God was now offering to both lost Jew and Gentile, absent of the former chosen people Jew / alien Gentile distinction.

Romans 9-11 build on and are based on Romans 1:18-3:30.

Which is the twin issue of the wrath of God that both Jew and Gentile ended up worthy of, and the Grace of God in His Son that God was now offering both absent of the chosen people Jew / aliens from God Gentiles distinction - "for" with Israel's fall "all" had been "concluded" as having "sinned" that is, "all the world" was "found guilty before God" or had been concluded as having "come short of the glory of God" Rom. 3.

This twin theme of wrath deserved but grace offered is one that Paul repeats throughout his writings.

Gal. 2 and Eph. 2 being two more examples of it, among others mentioned by Paul.

The grafting in is not salvation, rather it refers to being in a place of access to grace, of access to the offer of grace - an open door of faith, if you will.

Acts 17:11, 12
Rom. 5:8
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How do you define 'was now offering'? When? Back dated? From that moment? Or in terms of always but only now revealed?
 
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Danoh

New member
Sonnet said:
How do you define 'was now offering'? When? Back dated? From that moment? Or in terms of always but only now revealed?
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Mathew 28's "go ye therefore" was in light of Mark 7's "let the children be filled first."

"The children" being the nation Israel, then not only in Jerusalem, but also scattered throughout Judaea, and Samaria, and the uttermost parts of that then vast, vast Roman Empire of a "world." Dan. 9; Acts 1; Luke 2, John 11.

Said "go ye therefore" was to have begun "at Jerusalem" Luke 24, and then spread out to said "children" scattered abroad, Acts 1.

At the same time, He had told them near the end of Matt. 10, that they would not only encounter great persecution BEFORE His return, but that they would not make it past the cities of Israel BEFORE His return.

We see all that begin to play out in Acts 1-7.

Which Romans 1-3 and 9-11 relates has ended in Israel's having been concluded under sin with the Gentiles.

Meaning God has turned His back on such.

Not completion of that mission.

And not His return, either.

Instead, He unfolds The Mystery He'd planned to unfold...first.

During...Romans 9-11.
 
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Danoh

New member
Sonnet said:
Yet becomes confusing when one considers AD70.
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Not at all.

For any confusion will be based both on perspective and what said perspective may have failed to consider.

In this, whether or not He had been referring to that generation back then, ends up subservient to the obvious in Romans - that God had planned to unfold a Mystery first, before He at last makes His OT Prophesied "short work upon the Earth."

Rom. 1:18-3:30; Rom. 9-11.

Acts 17:11, 12.
 
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