What is the Gospel?

[patrick jane]

By what you said, you implied very strongly, that understanding God's Word is a prerequisite to knowing God; also implying that you can't know God without your Bible. Thereby implying, that in order for an unbeliever to know God he had to read scripture.

You can't deny that that's what you meant, whether I'm a liar or not.

You did so in response to my original point that "The important thing is not that we understand the Bible, but that we seek God."

And...
You are wrong.

:troll:

 

[blackbirdking]

Nonsense. Just because you have no clue, doesn't mean others don't.

And why the sudden change in punctuation? You aren't trying to deceive us, are you?

??

 

[blackbirdking]

This is what is known as hanging one by one's own petard. :thumb:

Why?

 

[Sonnet]

What is stopping you from doing your duty right now?

AMR

I have no assurance that what is written and claimed about God / Jesus is true - and threads such as this only seem to clarify the confusion.

I've been reading through the link you posted.

We still wish to know how the divine pre-ordination of the event is consistent with human liberty. "Upon such a subject," says Dr Dick, "no man should be ashamed to acknowledge his ignorance. We are not required to reconcile the divine decrees and human liberty. It is enough to know that God has decreed all things which come to pass, and that men are answerable for their actions.

I don't know - perhaps you go further than WCofF with your:

"We are guilty before we inherit anything. We are guilty after we are conceived in iniquity, inheriting a sinful nature. And third, we are guilty of all our actual transgressions."

"Post-fall-- able to sin -- not able to not sin"

I don't see any culpability whatsoever there.

 

[blackbirdking]

She didn't have to read the other posts. It was your one statement that hung you.

How, if it was taken in context?

Google it.

I did.

 

[blackbirdking]

Unbelievers make choices every day but they're all wrong like yours.

How would you know?

Are you implying that believers don't make choices, no wrong ones?

 

[Sonnet]

Paul never preached "as it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated" as the gospel unto you. And if we or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which Paul preached unto the Galatians as "unto you, it's not on you, but them. Let him be accursed. Now onto the gospel that is unto you...1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV and the formula for salvation and a seal (Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV).

I'm not completely clear as to your argument. Paul's statement:

8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

is clear though and would include any message that did not fit with the truth about Christ preached by any preacher to any audience.

Paul never preached the gospel of the kingdom. That is the very real gospel that the 12 preached to the lost sheep of the house of Israel as commanded (Matthew 10:5-6). It has nothing to do with the gospel that will save you and nothing to do with the blessed hope I look for, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ to the church, which is His Body of which I am a member.

I'm not sure your assertion trumps Jesus's does it? The Kingdom equates to eternal life doesn't it? Jesus came that His chosen (Israel) would accept Him - but they didn't take it.

I am no expert on this but it just seems straight forward. I don't understand the reason for the complication. The first four books of the NT are called the Gospel. That makes all that is written there the Gospel. Sure, 1 Cor. 15:3-8 represents the essence of the Gospel without having to run through the entire Jesus story.

 

[blackbirdking]

That makes no sense, you know. "Parts" of scripture cannot be considered not truth and still have scripture "as a whole" being truth.

Oh;
Luke 10:37b, Matthew 27:5;
And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. Then said Jesus unto him, "Go, and do thou likewise."
A man can make the scripture say anything if some is left out.

You see it all the time on here.

Galatians 5:9 KJV - A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

Exactly.

 

[Sonnet]

Anyway, I save my cursings for those who preach a false gospel of works. The gospel of the Kingdom the Apostles and Jesus Himself preached is not the Gospel of Grace. And that is what Paul was talking about as another gospel. All of Galatians is comparing the two. Law and Grace.

Jesus:

Mark 13:10
And the gospel must first be preached to all nations.

Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

 

[Right Divider]

By what you said, you implied very strongly, that understanding God's Word is a prerequisite to knowing God; also implying that you can't know God without your Bible. Thereby implying, that in order for an unbeliever to know God he had to read scripture.

You can't deny that that's what you meant, whether I'm a liar or not.

You did so in response to my original point that "The important thing is not that we understand the Bible, but that we seek God."

And...
You are wrong.

My point was that to "seek God" requires reading His Word. It's just that simple.

Your idea that you can "stare into the stars" to "seek God" is not true.

Certainly the heavens do declare the glory of God..... but you find that fact in the Bible.

 

[patrick jane]

Jesus:

Mark 13:10
And the gospel must first be preached to all nations.

Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

That changed when they rejected Jesus Christ and crucified Him, ushering in the age of grace, revealed to Paul, God's chosen vessel.

 

[Sonnet]

That changed when they rejected Jesus Christ and crucified Him, ushering in the age of grace, revealed to Paul, God's chosen vessel.

1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

 

[patrick jane]

1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

Point?

 

[Right Divider]

1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

That will eventually come, but God has interrupted His prophecy program with Israel to introduce a mystery that was NOT made know previously.

God revealed this to the apostle Paul.

Eph 3:1-12 (AKJV/PCE)​

(3:1) For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, (3:2) If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: (3:3) How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, (3:4) Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) (3:5) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; (3:6) That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: (3:7) Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. (3:8) Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; (3:9) And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: (3:10) To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly [places] might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, (3:11) According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: (3:12) In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. ​

If this mystery was "hid in God", then it was NOT able to be found until God revealed it.

 

[Sonnet]

Point?

The context - end times or destruction of the temple or both.

 

[Sonnet]

That will eventually come, but God has interrupted His prophecy program with Israel to introduce a mystery that was NOT made know previously.

God revealed this to the apostle Paul.

Eph 3:1-12 (AKJV/PCE)​

(3:1) For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, (3:2) If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: (3:3) How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, (3:4) Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) (3:5) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; (3:6) That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: (3:7) Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. (3:8) Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; (3:9) And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: (3:10) To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly [places] might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, (3:11) According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: (3:12) In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. ​

If this mystery was "hid in God", then it was NOT able to be found until God revealed it.

Are you suggesting that the gospel of the Kingdom Jesus said would be preached must not or just isn't preached now?

I'm no expert on this...just noticed and remembered Jesus's words in Mat.

 

[Right Divider]

The context - end times or destruction of the temple or both.

Again... what is the point?

What does this have to do with the gospel?

 

[Sonnet]

Again... what is the point?

What does this have to do with the gospel?

v.14 relates to said context because Jesus is answering the disciples' question.

 

[Right Divider]

Are you suggesting that the gospel of the Kingdom Jesus said would be preached must not or just isn't preached now?

If you are not preaching the gospel of the grace of God, then you're preaching the wrong gospel.

I'm no expert on this...just noticed and remembered Jesus's words in Mat.

Please make careful note of WHO Jesus is talking to. Everything Jesus said in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John is specially about Israel.

Matt 28:16-20 (AKJV/PCE)​

(28:16) ¶ Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. (28:17) And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. (28:18) And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. (28:19) ¶ Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (28:20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen. ​

"Churchianity" has confused people for two thousand years.

These were the apostles of the twelve tribes of Israel.

Matt 19:28 (AKJV/PCE)​

(19:28) And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. ​

The context of Jesus' earth ministry is His relationship with His people, Israel.

Rom 15:8-12 (AKJV/PCE)​

(15:8) Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises [made] unto the fathers: (15:9) And that the Gentiles might glorify God for [his] mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name. (15:10) And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people. (15:11) And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people. (15:12) And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

​

If you read the Bible in its context, you'll understand what it means. The Bible is a book of details.

 

[Right Divider]

v.14 relates to said context because Jesus is answering the disciples' question.

When you quote the Bible, please refer to chapter and verse. That is how we can accurately communicate about it.