I’ve said it before... even the staunchest “Protestors” ... “Protestants”... unknowingly quote the Catechism...
I’m by no means Catholic... but all brick and mortar as we know it today roots from Rome.
What is the Gospel?
- Thread starter Sonnet
- Start date
I’ve said it before... even the staunchest “Protestors” ... “Protestants”... unknowingly quote the Catechism...
I’m by no means Catholic... but all brick and mortar as we know it today roots from Rome.
Hold the phone...
There it is again... You use “Election”.
What context are you using it in?
Rotflmbo... Sonnet is unknowingly supporting your and AMR’s Theological Thesis... if you ponder the matter from this perspective...
That was a little too sly, George...
Point begrudgingly given to George and AMR...
# Laughing out Loud and looking for a way to cry foul...
For one who has an OP that seems to blame division for masking the gospel... you sure are getting to the heart of Division...
I will simply say this...
Israel is indisputably elect in historical context... and I’m not rolling forward to the whole dispensational vs. supersessional argument...
Israel was “elect”... but in context they were to expand their borders to all that would receive. Even in Ceremony and Law... God’s provision was accessible to Gentiles.
In other words... there is no way to argue against the context of John 3:14-16.
All were infected... and all had access to look unto the bronze. If a person refused to look... it was on that person and no other.
Any argument that tries to overthrow the simplicity of this reality is self defeating.
[MENTION=16688]Danoh[/MENTION] explained about “Reinforcment” building earlier... and honestly... he nailed that on the head. His post was dead accurate.
That was my implication, and I agree.
So it is up to God, when a person hears the Gospel that the Lord Jesus Christ is risen, as to who will find the Easter story credible, and who will find it ridiculous. 2nd Timothy 2:25 (KJV) indicates that repentance is given by God.
I used to be a Calvinist. The Catholic Church's teaching on divine providence is thorough and complete, and uniquely so, among schools of Christian theology, I've found.
The Church would say that if you believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is risen, then you are Catholic, by which she means that you are a Christian, and an individual member of the one Church, the Body of Christ. Imperfectly united with her, to be sure, but an individual member nonetheless.
And "brick and mortar" was how the Church began, so it's a pretty old tradition.
2nd Corinthians 5:19 ... in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation
That seems pretty clear that God did His part for ALL... and though “ALL” gets redefined by many... the scripture is clear if commentary and theological creed is erased from the equation.
It’s on us... not God.
I thought that “It is Finished” statement was pretty “final”...?!?
Am I missing something... (Mostly a rhetorical question... meant to be read as a statement)
I dislike Calvinism's presumptuous peaking behind the curtain. It's up to God, and, if someone wants to believe the Gospel that the Lord Jesus Christ is risen, then they can.
I used to be a Calvinist. The Catholic Church's teaching on divine providence is thorough and complete, and uniquely so, among schools of Christian theology, I've found.
The Church would say that if you believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is risen, then you are Catholic, by which she means that you are a Christian, and an individual member of the one Church, the Body of Christ. Imperfectly united with her, to be sure, but an individual member nonetheless.
And "brick and mortar" was how the Church began, so it's a pretty old tradition.
The Churches pre power stance was rooted on the true meaning of “Catholic”... which was “Universal”.
This was essentially a play on the “world” part of John 3:16... as “Universe” applies.
Though I remain a bastard child of God... I fit in all camps and am outside all by my understandings. I can nod towards what you are saying in the original intent of the word “Catholic” as the church believes all are to be loved as God’s children and thusly offers charity to ALL because of this.
Well Hell... here comes the division on my part... but your exact words and mine are identical in these two statements... but simply worded differently.
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Completely out of context.
That verse is SPECIFICALLY about the restoration of Israel.
Ezek 36:21-38 (AKJV/PCE)
(36:21) ¶ But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went. (36:22) Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not [this] for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. (36:23) And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I [am] the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. (36:24) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. (36:25) ¶ Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. (36:26) A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. (36:27) And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them]. (36:28) And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. (36:29) I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. (36:30) And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen. (36:31) Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that [were] not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations. (36:32) Not for your sakes do I [this], saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel. (36:33) Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause [you] to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded. (36:34) And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by. (36:35) And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities [are become] fenced, [and] are inhabited. (36:36) Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined [places, and] plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken [it], and I will do [it]. (36:37) Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will yet [for] this be inquired of by the house of Israel, to do [it] for them; I will increase them with men like a flock. (36:38) As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I [am] the LORD.
It's shameful the way that people ABUSE the scripture for their OWN purposes!
For a thousand years, there was no division in the one Church of any appreciable or what anybody today would claim was legitimate. All those condemned by the Church during this period are still considered heretical. Then the East-West Schism occurred, and so there was division. The question is, who broke away from whom? And the breakers are not the one Church. Did the one Church cease to exist in AD 1054? Did it become "invisible" then? And if you say that it was the Orthodox churches that broke from the one Church, then along comes the Reformation, and another breaking away. Did the Catholics break away from the one Church? Did the one Church become "invisible" then? Are all the Protestant ecclesial communities now the one Church?
Institutionally, I side with the Catholics, that the Catholic Church is the Church in the Bible. And, the Catholic Church teaches very plainly now that membership in the Body of Christ is pendent upon faith and faith alone.
If someone broke away, then whom they broke away from, is the Church.
Er... no way around it now... cats out of the bag and the Dispensational vs. Supersessional “discussion” is broached.
On a positive note... [MENTION=16283]Sonnet[/MENTION] said he never saw utter unity anyhow... and His belief is up to him...
As you well know... I forever seek peace in this matter. I understand your perspective... and always appreciate what you write... as you defend Israel and faith alone in Your writing. I’m certain you know my stance is different... and yet, you seem very cognizant that I respect how you arrive at your conclusion.
All diplomacy and respect,
EE
I will add this in fair disclosure... there came a point where I separated all brick and mortar from the invisible body... in my mind and personally arrived at the conclusion that the entire Universe is God’s... and every being is to be treated by us as His...
Thus... all is the Body to me and Christ alone may separate the wheat from the chaff.
I do value all institutions that correctly glorify Jesus Christ and His DBR as hallowed... but see those borders as different than the Bodies boundless existence...
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All nonsense.
Weighty.
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At least as much as your fact-free opinions in that post.
There were opinions, which were said to be as much, and there were facts. You called it all nonsense.
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The first two sentences are completely anti-factual.
Rather...
Fact.
Fact.
Fact.
Fact.
Fact.
Five.