What is the Gospel?
- Thread starter Sonnet
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Sonnet
New member
"Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness."
The provision is to all and is genuine isn't it?
Sonnet
New member
Lon
Well-known member
Yes, that's why you and I agree on this particular. We have those on TOL who are very Arminian that do not see it that way, however. It isn't an easy bridge to span between we and they. In Him -Lon
Lon
Well-known member
Correct, but is all sin thus forgiven because it has been shed?
It goes back to whether it is proactive or retroactive in application. Whatever the case, the most important thing is who such grace avails upon. It is no good, whether it is available, adequate, or already shed and given, if it isn't received, thus to me, most contention is academic. Some may well argue that 'love is seen greater and MORE compelling in a greater showing of love' but more compelling is in the eye of the beholder. Something of the beauty of love and grace meets all of our eyes that call ourselves by His name. I CAN'T but imagine that such love is simply going to shine in the world of darkness and will have His effect. He is all about saving and will do so, however effective you or I will manage to be. I'm every encouraged by His love, never discouraged. In Him -Lon
Lon
Well-known member
Sure. Wasn't ten plagues, excessive? Didn't Jesus choose and love Iscariot? Didn't Esau only manage to lose his inheritance? To me, it seems he had some reconciliation with his brother at the end of his life, and it seems to indicate the grace of God to me. I have no way to judge men's souls. Only God is capable of such. Romans 8:58 is good news to me.
"Hate" perhaps isn't the better translation. The quote actually comes from Malachi and is about the decedents of Esau, not Esau himself. Romans 9 doesn't make that distinction, but as I read the story of Esau and Jacob, I'm not sure where Esau winds up at the end of the story and am left leaving such in God's counsel.
Yes. In Pharaoh's case, that work was for redemption, which is the exact work of God in relating to His fallen race. His every action must be seen in using all means, to bring about redemption for as many as possible. Hitler is responsible for Hitler BUT God can certainly use any of his actions, to meet the needs of others. How with 6 million killed? I don't know exactly, but I'm convinced love is the right response to all atrocity. Texas shooting? Love on these people. Las Vegas? Love on these people. Love is always the right response, and as such, God has a right, as Potter, to respond to all and plan using all, to bring about Love. Sin is the opposite of Love, not hate imho.
Lots here, not sure if any of it hits home for the need, but I pray some of it resonates. In Him -Lon
glorydaz
Well-known member
Let me try to cover all the bases.
Of course it's genuine, but it does no good unless it's accepted.
A meal is prepared, but if it isn't eaten, it goes to waste.
Those who reject God's provision will die in their sins, and face God's wrath.
It's a gift that must be accepted...not ignored or trampled into the ground.
The blood was shed (God's Grace), and that blood is accessed by faith. Romans 5:2
The prison door is opened, but man must walk out.
Reconciled by His death, but we must BE RECONCILED to be saved by His LIFE. Romans 5:10
God reaches down, and man reaches up. Just like the painting in the Sistine Chapel.
For those who refuse to be reconciled by rejecting Christ's work on the cross, that provision is of no effect.
Sonnet
New member
Just to clarify - aren't you then agreeing that the sin of unbelief is a special case? If Jesus atoned for it as He did with all other sins then we might wonder what is left for man to do? Yet, even so, we are enjoined to believe.
Your post appears remarkably close to what I believe scripture is saying.
musterion
Well-known member
Where were you when I needed you, Musty?
Having Veteran's dinner at the local Golden Corral with wife and kids.
musterion
Well-known member
Endless arguments, doting about questions...I see right through you.
Sonnet
New member
You are cynical musterion. This is a forum where debate is encouraged.
You appear to single out all that is negative about Catholicism - but that is okay?
Sonnet
New member
You don't fail as well?
Right Divider
Body part
Your illogical and fallacious "logic" is hilariously wrong. We never hear from Bartholomew or Simon the Canaanite either. Perhaps they are not part of the twelve either (according to YOUR fallacious "reasoning").
Paul was NOT one of the twelve. The twelve were named and the replacement was named. That you reject scripture is probably why you're a "pope follower".
In Galatians 2, Paul and the twelve agree to have separate ministries to different groups of people. I'll bet that you've got a doozy of an explanation for that one too.
If a "church" says that, then they are just as wrong as you.
Nope, and you're no authority to judge with your fallacious logic.
You do realize that your so-called quote-unquote Pauline doctrine is Dispensational made up.
That matters not one tiny bit. TRUTH is TRUTH and the "Catholic churches" do not teach TRUTH. They teach the same falsehoods that you've apparently adopted as your own.
You don't even know who you're replying to. Your confusion is IMMENSE.
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Right Divider
Body part
Paul is NOT the twelvth and the SCRIPTURE shows that clearly. But you don't believe the scripture.
Right Divider
Body part
The disbelief in the Bible from the "Catholic Church" is just amazing. And so many people believe them over the Bible. Sickening really.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Why don't you tell me what you mean by atonement.....
I hate to answer one of your questions that you might just turn around on me.
Let's just say I'm suspicious.
glorydaz
Well-known member
There isn't much Bible reading going on in the Catholic Church, and that's quite a problem for them.