What is the Gospel?

[Sonnet]

That's the part Jesus' "analogy" was focused on....their lack of faith.

There, your post has been answered.

Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.

Nothing about lack of faith but everything about a raised bronze serpent which Jesus equates with His crucifixion which grants eternal life for those that believe. The exact parallel in the OT story is dying Israelites given a life cure if they look.

Prove that unbitten Israelites are relevant in the analogy and you prove that some of mankind is sinless and in no need of Jesus. Those unbitten Israelites did not need the bronze serpent.

 

[glorydaz]

Believing the "Peter was the first pope" myth, I can almost understand. But not seeing that Mathias replaced Judas Iscariot is just pure unbelief.

Well, like many other facts, you won't hear that from the Catholic Church.

 

[Sonnet]

Yes, and there it is. Just as I told you from the beginning.

?

 

[Lon]

Lon - you must, surely, accept that only if Christ died for all can 1 Timothy 2:4 be a genuine concern Paul ascribes to God ?

I think, with a 'unidirectional' concern, I understand you. It is only after further contemplation of what God knows and when He knows it, that such demands further contemplation as well.

This may help: For the most part, I try to ONLY use scriptures when talking to people about the Lord Jesus Christ and what He has done. I 'think' such forgoes much of discussion and problems.

 

[Sonnet]

No, I'm simply covering all the bases, since you already admitted His death was an OFFER of salvation and forgiveness of sins. A provision for those who believe.

A propitiation contingent on FAITH IN HIS BLOOD. Just returning you to the fact you keep touching on, but not really embracing. An atonement LIMITED to those who accept the offer of peace (reconciliation)....who accept the offer.

A genuine provision includes all. Wouldn't you want to be able to tell the world that God has provided for all? Does any child growing up and singing hymns as I did in school ever consider for one moment that what Christ is said to have done on the cross excluded anyone?

Okay, maybe this directed more towards TULIP than your position - but I just thought it needed to be said.

 

[drbrumley]

What is the gospel?

In one word, Jesus!!!!!

 

[Nihilo]

What is the gospel?

In one word, Jesus!!!!!

What do you think about Easter? :think:

 

[Sonnet]

I think, with a 'unidirectional' concern, I understand you. It is only after further contemplation of what God knows and when He knows it, that such demands further contemplation as well.

This may help: For the most part, I try to ONLY use scriptures when talking to people about the Lord Jesus Christ and what He has done. I 'think' such forgoes much of discussion and problems.

God's concern, His desire that all people should be saved clashes with Calvin's interpretation of Romans 9.

11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

 

[glorydaz]

Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.

Nothing about lack of faith but everything about a raised bronze serpent which Jesus equates with His crucifixion which grants eternal life for those that believe. The exact parallel in the OT story is dying Israelites given a life cure if they look.

Prove that unbitten Israelites are relevant in the analogy and you prove that some of mankind is sinless and in no need of Jesus. Those unbitten Israelites did not need the bronze serpent.

My goodness. :dead:

Nicodemus was a ruler among the Jews. The story was well known, and it's not that difficult to understand. It was a miracle, because just looking at a bronze snake hoisted into the air could never actually remove the poison of those who were snake bit. It was only through an act of faith that anyone would look. Those who looked, lived. Period. Whosoever looketh liveth. Whosoever believeth has eternal life. Of course it's faith. That's all it is. It was a type and shadow of what was to come. It was a sign to the children in the wilderness, just as it's a sign to those who look when Christ is lifted up by the preaching of the Cross.

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.​

I've decided you're a waste of time to try and explain anything to you. You automatically argue.
The only thing we can do is watch you stumble forth until admit it yourself, and then point it out to you. Stumble on.....

 

[drbrumley]

What do you think about Easter? :think:

What about it? To me, it's about the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Is there something specific about Easter your asking about?

 

[glorydaz]

A genuine provision includes all. Wouldn't you want to be able to tell the world that God has provided for all? Does any child growing up and singing hymns as I did in school ever consider for one moment that what Christ is said to have done on the cross excluded anyone?

Okay, maybe this directed more towards TULIP than your position - but I just thought it needed to be said.

Whosoever means just that.

 

[Sonnet]

My goodness. :dead:

Nicodemus was a ruler among the Jews. The story was well known, and it's not that difficult to understand. It was a miracle, because just looking at a bronze snake hoisted into the air could never actually remove the poison of those who were snake bit. It was only through an act of faith that anyone would look. Those who looked, lived. Period. Whosoever looketh liveth. Whosoever believeth has eternal life. Of course it's faith. That's all it is. It was a type and shadow of what was to come. It was a sign to the children in the wilderness, just as it's a sign to those who look when Christ is lifted up by the preaching of the Cross.

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.​

I've decided you're a waste of time to try and explain anything to you. You automatically argue.
The only thing we can do is watch you stumble forth until admit it yourself, and then point it out to you. Stumble on.....

None of this deals with the fact that Jesus's analogy equates bitten, dying Israelites with sinful humanity, the raised bronze serpent with Jesus's crucifixion and Israelites that looked and lived with those that believe unto eternal life.

Bitten, dying Israelites equated with sinful humanity - and the bronze serpent / Jesus's death on the cross for ALL OF THEM.

 

[Sonnet]

Whosoever means just that.

Meaning anybody can.

 

[Nihilo]

What about it? To me, it's about the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Yeah, I was piqued by your one word Gospel, and the DBR is three words, and I thought Easter is a good candidate for a one word Gospel, along with your idea of Jesus of course, which brings John 3:16 (KJV) immediately to my mind, so certainly no problem with the Lord's own name. Philippians 2:9-11 (KJV)

Is there something specific about Easter your asking about?

If someone asks you What's the Gospel in one word? how would you compare answering Easter compared with Jesus. Easter means nothing without Jesus, and Jesus connotes Easter, so they go together, but Jesus is the name Php2:10KJV, so I'm thinking I like yours better. I have to admit, it's tough to give up on Easter, but I will surrender Easter to Jesus.

Food for thought, thanks. :think:

 

[Lon]

God's concern, His desire that all people should be saved clashes with Calvin's interpretation of Romans 9.

11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

Right. I've seen people shun the gospel from Arminians, Calvinists, Billy Graham and others. How can anyone chuck the blatant love and grace of God? :idunno: Makes no sense. I couldn't. That kind of love compels. How about you? How can you not love a God that would send His own Son? Something about rejection doesn't add up. I believe, ANY show of love for anybody that is this self-sacrificing, shouts. A fool, narcissist or most callous wouldn't acknowledge such. The love of God is its own draw and it takes a special kind of someone to despise His love....people more concerned with themselves? "But for the love and grace of God, there go I." Whether or not His blood is shed specifically for you or me, isn't as important as what you and I do when we hear about the loving grace and mercy of God. If we are all people God has been able to touch, we bow. Those who cannot be touched? Already living in their own kind of personal hell. John 3:18 I pray for the callous heart. -Lon

 

[glorydaz]

None of this deals with the fact that Jesus's analogy equates bitten, dying Israelites with sinful humanity, the raised bronze serpent with Jesus's crucifixion and Israelites that looked and lived with those that believe unto eternal life.

Bitten, dying Israelites equated with sinful humanity - and the bronze serpent / Jesus's death on the cross was for ALL OF THEM.

Of course the OFFER of salvation is for everyone, but I will not tell unbelievers their sins have been forgiven unless and until they actually believe. Now we've come full circle.

So, sticking with this example. You harped on me for how I preached the Gospel. That I wouldn't include unbelievers in the "OUR SINS". That I would tell them they had to believe in order to have their sins forgiven.

Would you have me tell the children of Israel that Moses lifted up a bronze serpent, and now the poison was taken care of? Just by the lifting up of the serpent on a pole? No, I'd tell them they had to look at the serpent, and then they would live.

 

[Sonnet]

Right. I've seen people shun the gospel from Arminians, Calvinists, Billy Graham and others. How can anyone chuck the blatant love and grace of God? :idunno: Makes no sense. I couldn't. That kind of love compels. How about you? How can you not love a God that would send His own Son? Something about rejection doesn't add up. I believe, ANY show of love for anybody that is this self-sacrificing, shouts. A fool, narcissist or most callous wouldn't acknowledge such. The love of God is its own draw and it takes a special kind of someone to despise His love....people more concerned with themselves? "But for the love and grace of God, there go I." Whether or not His blood is shed specifically for you or me, isn't as important as what you and I do when we hear about the loving grace and mercy of God. If we are all people God has been able to touch, we bow. Those who cannot be touched? Already living in their own kind of personal hell. John 3:18 I pray for the callous heart. -Lon

A sincere post Lon. I don't see you as a Calvinist.

How can anyone chuck the blatant love and grace of God? :idunno: Makes no sense.

Indeed, I am touched to the core by such love.

I believe, ANY show of love for anybody that is this self-sacrificing, shouts.

It does.

The love of God is its own draw and it takes a special kind of someone to despise His love

Absolutely.

Whether or not His blood is shed specifically for you or me

If not then this, for me, contradicts the love of God you posit.

 

[Sonnet]

Of course the OFFER of salvation is for everyone, but I will not tell unbelievers their sins have been forgiven unless and until they actually believe. Now we've come full circle.

So, sticking with this example. You harped on me for how I preached the Gospel. That I wouldn't include unbelievers in the "OUR SINS". That I would tell them they had to believe in order to have their sins forgiven.

Would you have me tell the children of Israel that Moses lifted up a bronze serpent, and now the poison was taken care of? Just by the lifting up of the serpent on a pole? No, I'd tell them they had to look at the serpent, and then they would live.

It seems the only clash is with you equating Jesus dying for someone exactly with their sins being forgiven.

And me not agreeing.

 

[glorydaz]

It seems the only clash is with you equating Jesus dying for someone exactly with their sins being forgiven.

And me not agreeing.

I thought we already agreed His dying was an offer...a provision.

 

[Lon]

If not then this, for me, contradicts the love of God you posit.

Not really. Just realize, for the Calvinist, His blood is part and parcel of Salvation thus if applied: saves. It may not add up for anybody but a Calvinist and likely doesn't, but to me, God's love is the bigger connection and meaning anyway, if you follow. In Him -Lon