Jesus is created.
What is God's first creation?
- Thread starter keypurr
- Start date
Jesus is created.
drbrumley
Well-known member
Jesus was "one of a kind." He was the God-Man....Noone else can make that claim. You on the other hand, demean Him by your pathetic assertion that Jesus was just a body to house the logos.
drbrumley
Well-known member
You will find out...
It is written.
drbrumley
Well-known member
Was Jesus Created by God?
by Tom Rainwater
QUESTION: You claim Jesus is God. Actually, Jesus was created by God, believe it or not (John 1:1; Revelation 3:14).
ANSWER: Hello! Thanks for examining the material on our web site. You are correct in saying that I affirm Jesus is God. I do so because that's exactly what Scripture affirms. (For more material on this subject, see the article "Is Jesus God?" and the radio program "Is Jesus God?".)
However, you are incorrect in your assumption that the Father created Jesus. The verses you cited do not prove what you claim. Let's look at each one.
John 1:1
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made....And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." (John 1:1-3,14, KJV)
There is nothing in the entire context of John 1 that remotely indicates Jesus was created. In describing Jesus as "the Word," the Apostle John plainly says that Jesus was "in the beginning" "with God," and was God's agent of Creation.
Jesus Himself created "all things." "Without Him was not anything made that was made." In other words, everything that was created was made by Jesus. Under those conditions, Jesus could not have "made" Himself. He could not be the "Creator" and the "created" at the same time. Consider Colossians 1:16:
"For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him."
It takes the power of God to create all things in heaven and on earth (Genesis 1:1). Jesus has that power.
It's interesting that you cite John 1:1 to try to disprove Jesus' Divinity when this is one of the most powerful texts in proof of His Divinity. It plainly says "the Word was God." Indeed, Jesus is of the same Divine Nature as the Father. John's affirmation here of the Deity of Christ is so direct that it offends a great many non-believers today. For instance, the group calling themselves the "Jehovah's Witnesses" intentionally and dishonestly mistranslates John 1:1 to read "the Word was a God." Muslims, when examining the Bible, also prefer using the same Jehovah's Witness mistranslation because they cannot bear the fact that Jesus is God.
John 1:1 does not disprove that Jesus is God -- it affirms it clearly and loudly.
Revelation 3:14
"And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God..." (KJV)
In this verse, Jesus describes Himself by three titles including "the beginning of the creation of God." Our Jehovah's Witness friends say this means Christ had a beginning -- that the Father created Jesus first before anything else was created. However, the word "beginning" in this verse is the Greek word arche, which does not indicate order, but cause. Thayer's Greek Lexicon defines arche in Revelation 3:14 as "that by which anything begins to be, the origin, active cause" (p.77). Ardnt and Gingrich say that arche here means "the first cause" (p.112). Correctly understood, the verse is telling us that Jesus is the beginning first Cause of all God's Creation. It originated with Him. (This is exactly what John 1:1 says.)
The Watchtower Society, in its effort to hide the truth about Jesus from its followers, also mistranslates this passage to read: "the beginning of the creation by God." This is not how the Greek reads.
"For 'by God' to be a correct translation, the Greek would have to be hupo theou. But we do not have the 'hupo theou.' We simply have the word for 'creation' in the genitive case. 'Of God' is correct." (Cline 6).
Revelation 3:14 does not disprove that Jesus is God, nor does it devalue His nature. On the contrary, Jesus is teaching us that He deserves glory, honor, and praise as the Creator of all things.
Conclusion
The truth about Jesus Christ as the Divine Son of God is the most important thing you can understand and believe. Friend, don't let the doctrines of men lead you away from salvation in Jesus.
"...for unless you believe that I am {He}, you shall die in your sins." John 8:24 (KJV)
____________
Cited Works:
Thayer's Greek Lexicon.
A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, Arndt and Gingrich.
Ted Cline, Questions for Jehovah's Witnesses.
keypurr
Well-known member
Amen, I have been telling them that since 2004.
drbrumley
Well-known member
And I have been telling that's false since you tried to get my dad on board to your view.
good night, brother.
No.
Scripture gives another reason for jesus being deserved of honor and praise.
Do you not know it?
You don't.
LA
Yes, Jesus was and is a man always.
People who claim Jesus was preexistent to his birth and somehow lessened Himself to become a man, do not know the man, who His Father raised up.
LA
People who claim Jesus was preexistent to his birth and somehow lessened Himself to become a man, do not know the man, who His Father raised up.
LA
People, like yourself, who claim that He didn't call God a liar because you deny scripture.
John 1:1-3, 14
Phillipians 2:5-8
popsthebuilder
New member
John 1: 12. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13. Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 15. John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. 16. And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. 18. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
(the Spirit/ Word of GOD was in Jesus heart, and He was and ever will be closest to GOD.)
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(the Spirit/ Word of GOD was in Jesus heart, and He was and ever will be closest to GOD.)
Sent from my Nokia 6.1 using Tapatalk
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Where? Produce the verse. You can't.
keypurr
Well-known member
keypurr
Well-known member
So only you know God's way?
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Right Divider
Body part
No, there are many. You're just not one of them.
So.... When were Satan and the rest of the angels created?
drbrumley
Well-known member
Good question that deserves an answer....
By my reading, they were created before Genesis 1:1
But that really is up to interpretation. I'm not sold as of yet as to what I just said to you. But it seems more plausible