Day 4 is most likely when the angels were created.
Consider that throughout scripture angels and stars are interchangeable when being described.
What is God's first creation?
- Thread starter keypurr
- Start date
Consider that throughout scripture angels and stars are interchangeable when being described.
It is not clear in the bible but Jesus was created first.
Not what the Bible says.
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. - Genesis 1:1 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis1:1&version=NKJV
I'll take God's word over yours any day.
keypurr
Well-known member
keypurr
Well-known member
Sister it is very clear that the express image was firstborn of all creation. And IT is not Jesus.
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He was not called Jesus but it is the same One.
I know you don't agree with me. we just have to agree to disagree.
It is getting old.
Can a created being be God?
I am not trinity believer and Jesus is not God. God is His Father.
take it or leave it.
I wont debate.
keypurr
Well-known member
Yes, if It/he was given the fullness of the Father.
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keypurr
Well-known member
Consider: The scriptures were written for human on Earth. The Heavenly host was most likely created before through Universe. I see no origin for the spirits in heaven in the Bible.
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No.
Consider that scripture says no.
“You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me.I, even I, am the Lord, And besides Me there is no savior.I have declared and saved, I have proclaimed, And there was no foreign god among you; Therefore you are My witnesses,” Says the Lord, “that I am God.Indeed before the day was, I am He; And there is no one who can deliver out of My hand; I work, and who will reverse it?” - Isaiah 43:10-13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah43:10-13&version=NKJV
I am the Lord, and there is no other; There is no God besides Me. I will gird you, though you have not known Me,That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting That there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other;I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things. ’ - Isaiah 45:5-7 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah45:5-7&version=NKJV
I am the Lord, and there is no other; There is no God besides Me. I will gird you, though you have not known Me,That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting That there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other;I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things. ’ - Isaiah 45:5-7 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah45:5-7&version=NKJV
Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first commandment.And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”So the scribe said to Him, “Well said, Teacher. You have spoken the truth, for there is one God, and there is no other but He. - Mark 12:29-32 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark12:29-32&version=NKJV
How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? - John 5:44 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John5:44&version=NKJV
Therefore concerning the eating of things offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one.For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords),yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live. - 1 Corinthians 8:4-6 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians8:4-6&version=NKJV
This means that only God the Father is without beginning and without end. God the Son has a defined beginning that the Father gave Him. Are they, therefore, fully equivikant?
keypurr
Well-known member
I considered your verses and they only prove my point.
There is only one true God.
God created all through his logos, spirit son who is a creation.
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keypurr
Well-known member
True the Father is the only one with no beginning or end.
But there is no God the Son for the Son is a creation/creature. The Father is greater than all.
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drbrumley
Well-known member
Proverbs 8 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Excellence of Wisdom
8
Does not wisdom cry out,
And understanding lift up her voice?
2
She takes her stand on the top of the [a]high hill,
Beside the way, where the paths meet.
3
She cries out by the gates, at the entry of the city,
At the entrance of the doors:
4
“To you, O men, I call,
And my voice is to the sons of men.
5
O you simple ones, understand prudence,
And you fools, be of an understanding heart.
6
Listen, for I will speak of excellent things,
And from the opening of my lips will come right things;
7
For my mouth will speak truth;
Wickedness is an abomination to my lips.
8
All the words of my mouth are with righteousness;
Nothing crooked or perverse is in them.
9
They are all plain to him who understands,
And right to those who find knowledge.
10
Receive my instruction, and not silver,
And knowledge rather than choice gold;
11
For wisdom is better than rubies,
And all the things one may desire cannot be compared with her.
12
“I, wisdom, dwell with prudence,
And find out knowledge and discretion.
13
The fear of the Lord is to hate evil;
Pride and arrogance and the evil way
And the perverse mouth I hate.
14
Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom;
I am understanding, I have strength.
15
By me kings reign,
And rulers decree justice.
16
By me princes rule, and nobles,
All the judges of [c]the earth.
17
I love those who love me,
And those who seek me diligently will find me.
18
Riches and honor are with me,
Enduring riches and righteousness.
19
My fruit is better than gold, yes, than fine gold,
And my revenue than choice silver.
20
I [d]traverse the way of righteousness,
In the midst of the paths of justice,
21
That I may cause those who love me to inherit wealth,
That I may fill their treasuries.
22
“The Lord possessed me at the beginning of His way,
Before His works of old.
23
I have been established from everlasting,
From the beginning, before there was ever an earth.
24
When there were no depths I was brought forth,
When there were no fountains abounding with water.
25
Before the mountains were settled,
Before the hills, I was brought forth;
26
While as yet He had not made the earth or the [e]fields,
Or the [f]primal dust of the world.
27
When He prepared the heavens, I was there,
When He drew a circle on the face of the deep,
28
When He established the clouds above,
When He strengthened the fountains of the deep,
29
When He assigned to the sea its limit,
So that the waters would not transgress His command,
When He marked out the foundations of the earth,
30
Then I was beside Him as [g]a master craftsman;
And I was daily His delight,
Rejoicing always before Him,
31
Rejoicing in His inhabited world,
And my delight was with the sons of men.
32
“Now therefore, listen to me, my children,
For blessed are those who keep my ways.
33
Hear instruction and be wise,
And do not disdain it.
34
Blessed is the man who listens to me,
Watching daily at my gates,
Waiting at the posts of my doors.
35
For whoever finds me finds life,
And obtains favor from the Lord;
36
But he who sins against me wrongs his own soul;
All those who hate me love death.”
The Excellence of Wisdom
8
Does not wisdom cry out,
And understanding lift up her voice?
2
She takes her stand on the top of the [a]high hill,
Beside the way, where the paths meet.
3
She cries out by the gates, at the entry of the city,
At the entrance of the doors:
4
“To you, O men, I call,
And my voice is to the sons of men.
5
O you simple ones, understand prudence,
And you fools, be of an understanding heart.
6
Listen, for I will speak of excellent things,
And from the opening of my lips will come right things;
7
For my mouth will speak truth;
Wickedness is an abomination to my lips.
8
All the words of my mouth are with righteousness;
Nothing crooked or perverse is in them.
9
They are all plain to him who understands,
And right to those who find knowledge.
10
Receive my instruction, and not silver,
And knowledge rather than choice gold;
11
For wisdom is better than rubies,
And all the things one may desire cannot be compared with her.
12
“I, wisdom, dwell with prudence,
And find out knowledge and discretion.
13
The fear of the Lord is to hate evil;
Pride and arrogance and the evil way
And the perverse mouth I hate.
14
Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom;
I am understanding, I have strength.
15
By me kings reign,
And rulers decree justice.
16
By me princes rule, and nobles,
All the judges of [c]the earth.
17
I love those who love me,
And those who seek me diligently will find me.
18
Riches and honor are with me,
Enduring riches and righteousness.
19
My fruit is better than gold, yes, than fine gold,
And my revenue than choice silver.
20
I [d]traverse the way of righteousness,
In the midst of the paths of justice,
21
That I may cause those who love me to inherit wealth,
That I may fill their treasuries.
22
“The Lord possessed me at the beginning of His way,
Before His works of old.
23
I have been established from everlasting,
From the beginning, before there was ever an earth.
24
When there were no depths I was brought forth,
When there were no fountains abounding with water.
25
Before the mountains were settled,
Before the hills, I was brought forth;
26
While as yet He had not made the earth or the [e]fields,
Or the [f]primal dust of the world.
27
When He prepared the heavens, I was there,
When He drew a circle on the face of the deep,
28
When He established the clouds above,
When He strengthened the fountains of the deep,
29
When He assigned to the sea its limit,
So that the waters would not transgress His command,
When He marked out the foundations of the earth,
30
Then I was beside Him as [g]a master craftsman;
And I was daily His delight,
Rejoicing always before Him,
31
Rejoicing in His inhabited world,
And my delight was with the sons of men.
32
“Now therefore, listen to me, my children,
For blessed are those who keep my ways.
33
Hear instruction and be wise,
And do not disdain it.
34
Blessed is the man who listens to me,
Watching daily at my gates,
Waiting at the posts of my doors.
35
For whoever finds me finds life,
And obtains favor from the Lord;
36
But he who sins against me wrongs his own soul;
All those who hate me love death.”
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
The Word was with God in the beginning, and is God.
Not if the Son is the Word.
The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and from the Son. The Father generates the Son.
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
In fact, not only is there no scripture saying 'Jesus is created,' but you'll have an easier time finding verses indicating that He IS the Creator. How's that Meshak? Is that OK? I know you're banned, but you'll be back.
We can read what is written. For now, that's the best introduction.
Probably angels.
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keypurr
Well-known member
If Jesus was BORN he is a creation/creature. its that simple. Jesus is not the creator. YHWH created all through his logos, not Jesus.
keypurr
Well-known member
YHWH created all through his first creation, his spirit Son. Heb 1, Col 1.
Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
The Preeminence of Christ
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.