What happened at Pentecost?

[JudgeRightly]

You can call her whatever you want, but it's undisputed

If it were "undisputed," we wouldn't be having this conversation.

among PhD historians

Appeals to authority don't make your position correct, only supported by fallacies.

that the Catholic Church is the movement /organization /etc. that began in Judea in AD 33.

Except that it isn't.

Sorry, but apart from your dates being off by about 3 years, the "church" you're referring to that you claim was the catholic church was in fact the church of believing Israel, which was ALL JEWS.

Christianity, on the other hand, is neither Jew nor Gentile, and cannot be the same church because of that simple fact.

Everything else, including your own preferred spin /tradition,

We don't make an appeal to tradition like you do (which is another logical fallacy on your part).

We simply look at what the Bible says.

is a splinter group, and derivative /denominational of the original.

False and an appeal to tradition.

The "original" church was Israel. The Body of Christ was introduced with Paul, who taught a different gospel than the Twelve. The Catholic church has twisted those two churches together and claimed they are one church. But that's not what the Bible teaches, and you'd know that if you were paying attention when reading it.

 

[clefty]

You can call her whatever you want, but it's undisputed among PhD historians that the Catholic Church is the movement /organization /etc. that began in Judea in AD 33. Everything else, including your own preferred spin /tradition, is a splinter group, and derivative /denominational of the original.

You are correct in that for centuries the church is spiritual Israel grafted in to replace unbelieving jews who were cut off... but almost immediately yours anti semitism? divorced itself of all things Moses delivered to us...

and to “correct” the hate yours further insults with V2 allowing Jews their own way...

But Yahushua was clear the Sabbath was made for man...not just jews...some now as yours did for centuries get so MAD at that they like yours claim it is NOT FOR THEM...as well as so much more...for them it’s just grace or something...

so thanks a lot....they merely take what yours did for centuries and come to a new conclusion YOURS LED WITH SCOFIELD and then with V2 -that jews have their own way “YAY ZIONISM” and now Israel has its own “YAY 3rd Temple”

and the body of Christ has yet another way...a 3rd “hear but don’t need to do” way...but yes “YAY ZIONISM and it’s 3rd Temple”

what a diabolical mess...to keep His deceived

all this to reject a gift for all man...a day off

 

[Right Divider]

You can call her whatever you want, but it's undisputed among PhD historians that the Catholic Church is the movement /organization /etc. that began in Judea in AD 33. Everything else, including your own preferred spin /tradition, is a splinter group, and derivative /denominational of the original.

You can keep up with the hyperbole all that you want. Nothing of the sort is "undisputed among PhD historians".

Your appeals to authority, etc. are cute and fallacious.

P.S. Pentecost was NOT the start of "something new" but was a continuation all that God was doing to and through Israel.

 

[Theo102]

Pentecost was NOT the start of "something new" but was a continuation all that God was doing to and through Israel.

That continuation involved the fulfilment of prophecy.

Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

Zechariah 13:7 KJV

 

[Right Divider]

That continuation involved the fulfilment of prophecy.

Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

Zechariah 13:7 KJV

Indeed, a continuation of God's dealing with Israel.

No "new" church on that day.

 

[oatmeal]

:juggle:

No, Peter was not "making a metaphor", nor was it a "literal equivalent".

Peter was declaring that prophecy was being fulfilled, literally.

Then maybe you should compare the actual events on the day of Pentecost and compare them to the events in Joel's prophecy

That would be very, very, very educational for you

 

[Right Divider]

Then maybe you should compare the actual events on the day of Pentecost and compare them to the events in Joel's prophecy

That would be very, very, very educational for you

Coming from you all that I can say is :rotfl:

P.S. I did not say that ALL of those things were fulfilled.

 

[oatmeal]

Coming from you all that I can say is :rotfl:

P.S. I did not say that ALL of those things were fulfilled.

Neither did Peter nor Joel nor scripture, thus it is a comparison, not a literal fulfillment

 

[Right Divider]

Neither did Peter nor Joel nor scripture, thus it is a comparison, not a literal fulfillment

:juggle:

Act 2:15-16 KJV For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. (16) But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

It's not hard to understand. By you always like to take it in some other way than intended, just like to do with much of scripture.

 

[Theo102]

It's not hard to understand. By you always like to take it in some other way than intended, just like to do with much of scripture.

No, scripture isn't another name for your interpretation of text that you like.

 

[Right Divider]

No, scripture isn't another name for your interpretation of text that you like.

We don't need any more comedians that aren't funny here.

 

[Theo102]

We don't need any more comedians that aren't funny here.

I didn't post it for your amusement.

 

[oatmeal]

:juggle:


It's not hard to understand. By you always like to take it in some other way than intended, just like to do with much of scripture.

Evidently you are not familiar with the concept of God knowing what He is talking about
nor are you familiar with the accuracy of God's word

Nor of God's hear of figures of speech when scripture is not literal

When scripture is quoted within scripture it is not always used literalliterally or without being modified to fit a particular situation

I would give a prominent example of this

 

[Right Divider]

Evidently you are not familiar with the concept of God knowing what He is talking about
nor are you familiar with the accuracy of God's word

Lying about me will not help your case.

Nor of God's hear of figures of speech when scripture is not literal

:dizzy:

When scripture is quoted within scripture it is not always used literalliterally or without being modified to fit a particular situation

Peter said "this is THAT"... that's easy to understand for anyone not trying to twist it.

I would give a prominent example of this

:luigi:

 

[oatmeal]

Lying about me will not help your case.


:dizzy:


Peter said "this is THAT"... that's easy to understand for anyone not trying to twist it.


:luigi:

You should learn what a metaphor is

 

[Right Divider]

You should learn what a metaphor is

I know what a metaphor is.

 

[oatmeal]

I know what a metaphor is.

So who was in error

God? Who gave Joel the words of the prophecy

Or Peter? Who did not see that Joel's prophecy was not applicable accurately as a literal fulfillment?

Or was it the people present and the celestial bodies failed to fulfill the prophecy accurately?

 

[Right Divider]

So who was in error

God? Who gave Joel the words of the prophecy

Or Peter? Who did not see that Joel's prophecy was not applicable accurately as a literal fulfillment?

Or was it the people present and the celestial bodies failed to fulfill the prophecy accurately?

Act 2:16 KJV But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

Anyone can understand that... except perhaps you.

 

[Theo102]

So who was in error

God? Who gave Joel the words of the prophecy

Or Peter? Who did not see that Joel's prophecy was not applicable accurately as a literal fulfillment?

Or was it the people present and the celestial bodies failed to fulfill the prophecy accurately?

Peter, his error was related to his error of Matthew 26:33.

And ye shall know that I [am] in the midst of Israel, and [that] I [am] YHWH אלהיכם, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed[יבשו].
And it shall come to pass afterward, [that] I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Joel 2:27-28

Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.
But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee.
Peter answered and said unto him, Though all men shall be offended because of thee, yet will I never be offended.
Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
Matthew 26:31-34

And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the prophets shall be ashamed[יבשו] every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:
Zechariah 13:4

Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man [that is] my fellow, saith YHWH צבאות: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
Zechariah 13:7

 

[clefty]

You can call her whatever you want, but it's undisputed among PhD historians that the Catholic Church is the movement /organization /etc. that began in Judea in AD 33. Everything else, including your own preferred spin /tradition, is a splinter group, and derivative /denominational of the original.

Hey you see this?

Experts are saying the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) has been sending $2 billion annually to the Holy See since 2013, the year Pope Francis took office. The lucre is part of a CCP strategy for world domination to bribe, compromise and control Italy through the Vatican and the European Union through Italy. The deal between China and the Vatican seems traceable to the disgraced Theodore McCarrick​

https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/vatican-china-sellout

He your bishop?

That's 14 billion to advance Marxism in America...wow...nice...thanks guys...way to RIP WASP America...after they hosted you this long...oh well Rev 13...