What Does it Mean to be Born Again?

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Apparently, you care not to discuss the scriptures in my post to Pate.

Not surprised, though.

Who wants to discuss cherry picked verses that are on their own and at best, incomplete. Of course you will never admit that which makes discussions with you virtually impossible. That is why I asked for your "opinion" re the "passover". I thought that would be something you couldn't screw up. My bad.
 

God's Truth

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At one time I was just like you. I thought that it was all about me. This is what is taught in the organized church. They want to keep you under the law and blinded to the Gospel so that you will continue to give them your money.

If it is not about us individually, then tell me who is going to go to the lake of fire for you, if that is where you end up?
 

God's Truth

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Yet that's exactly what you do, preaching a false gospel of works,

It is never ever wrong to obey God; in fact, if you don't obey Him you won't get saved.

something a person is required to do or perform in order to get himself saved... such as believing, receiving, calling upon the name of the Lord, etc.

Jesus saves us all on his own, and he tells us he saves those who believe and obey him.

Calvinists don't know why God saves those He saves.

Faith only doctrine is also false, it fails to admit that believing is obeying Jesus. The faith only crowd says that doing anything else Jesus says will make you condemned for a works salvation.

Both Calvinists and faith only teachers misunderstand the scriptures and they distort the truth.

Is it reasonable to teach we cannot believe and obey? No, it is not.

Paul was speaking about the works of the law no longer saving.

That means it no longer saves to clean oneself by doing the ceremonial works, for FAITH alone cleans us. That does NOT mean we do not have to do anything else that Jesus says to do, it merely means you do not have to do all the purification/ceremonial works.

However, the Apostle Paul preached that Salvation is according to the Power of God:


2 Tim. 1:8-9

8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began


So being Saved has nothing to do with our works, but it was God who Legally Saved His Elect from the penalty and condemnation of sin and its consequences Rom. 4:8.

Again, Paul is speaking about the ceremonial works of the law.

The Jews were called God's people because they did the ceremonial works, they cleaned themselves just to be able to go to the tent and later the temple, just to worship God, just to be where His Spirit was.

But since Jesus' shed blood on the cross, faith in his blood cleans us and circumcision no longer does; and, we become the temple.

But the natural man, such as yourself can't receive the True Gospel of God's Grace even though the scriptures consistently bear its Testimony, simply because you are unable to grasp that those Christ Saved were reconciled to God while being His enenies!

The scripture about a natural man can't receive the truth is because a natural man means a man who ONLY wants to please his flesh.
Someone who only wants to please their flesh does not want to hear about repenting of sins and giving up those pleasing things for God.

So you see, being Saved wasn't by anything they did or didn't do, but because they were already Saved while they were being God's enemies Rom. 5:10.

Then why not everyone saved?

You don't understand the scriptures about being saved while enemies. Paul is explaining to the Gentiles that God did not make them get circumcised first before He would save them. The Gentiles were enemies to God because they would not do the ceremonial work of circumcision.

Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,

That's the Gospel of the Power of God!


1 Cor. 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


The prerequisite to Believing the Truth of God's Word is to be Chosen 2 Thes. 2:13 and in time being Born of the Spirit!
God does NOT save unbelievers and those who hate Him. We are not saved before we are saved.

Rom. 8:8-9

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.

Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Those of the flesh is about those who only want to please their flesh. Not everyone only wants to please their flesh.
 

Cross Reference

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Quote Originally Posted by Nanja
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So you see, being Saved wasn't by anything they did or didn't do, but because they were already Saved while they were being God's enemies Rom. 5:10.

By that you are saying the Israelites didn't have to "do" God's instructions which was to mark their door lintels with blood. Interesting.
 

Robert Pate

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Banned
If it is not about us individually, then tell me who is going to go to the lake of fire for you, if that is where you end up?

Before the foundation of the world God knew that you would need a savior. This is why he that knew no sin, agreed to come to this dark planet and become sin for you, so that you could become the righteousness of God in him, 2 Corinthians 5:21. In Jesus Christ you have been sanctified, justified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30 and now stand before God as perfect and complete in him, Colossians 2:10. This is God's great FREE GIFT of salvation that is available to all that do nothing more than call upon his name, Colossians 2:10.
 

Nanja

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By that you are saying the Israelites didn't have to "do" God's instructions which was to mark their door lintels with blood. Interesting.


A person's own act of obedience to God is not what Saves him.

But the Many Christ died for John 17:2 / Shed His Blood for Rom. 5:9 are made Righteous by His Perfect Obedience on their behalf.

Rom. 5:19b
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.


Rom. 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
 

Robert Pate

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Banned
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A person's own act of obedience to God is not what Saves him.

But the Many Christ died for John 17:2 / Shed His Blood for Rom. 5:9 are made Righteous by His Perfect Obedience on their behalf.

Rom. 5:19b
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.


Rom. 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

The Bible repeatedly presents salvation as a FREE GIFT for God. This means that salvation cannot be earned, deserved or imposed. A gift can only be received or rejected. Nanja cannot accept this biblical truth. She wants to believe that God imposes salvation and that he only imposes it on some, which would make God unjust. Calvinism is self defeating. It is NOT possible to believe that God is unjust and be saved. By her own words she is condemned.
 

Nanja

Well-known member
The Bible repeatedly presents salvation as a FREE GIFT for God.


Salvation is not a free gift for God; but a free from God to all His Elect!

And Salvation cannot be received by any person's own works of the flesh he does with his imaginary freewill.

That's strictly unbiblical Gal. 2:16; Rom. 8:8!


But Salvation is Given to all God's Elect because they are the only portion of humanity He has Chosen In Union with Christ to have remission / forgiveness of sins according to the riches of His Grace Eph. 1:4-7!


Rom 4:6-8

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.


Now I know you are unable to comprehend these Truths John 8:47!

1 Cor 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Salvation is not a free gift for God; but a free from God to all His Elect!

And Salvation cannot be received by any person's own works of the flesh he does with his imaginary freewill.

That's strictly unbiblical Gal. 2:16; Rom. 8:8!


But Salvation is Given to all God's Elect because they are the only portion of humanity He has Chosen In Union with Christ to have remission / forgiveness of sins according to the riches of His Grace Eph. 1:4-7!


Rom 4:6-8

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.


Now I know you are unable to comprehend these Truths John 8:47!

1 Cor 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


There are serious consequences to believing that God is unjust. The doctrine of predestination is a declaration that God is unjust. You cannot believe that God predestinates souls that have not even been born to hell and not believe that God is unjust.

All through the Old Testament and into the New Testament we are taught that salvation is by grace through faith. This means that we believe that God is righteous and that we can trust in him believe in him. It is not humanly possible to love and trust in the God of Calvinism. The God of Calvinism is an unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous tyrant that delight in sending people to hell. You have already condemned yourself to hell because of what you believe in him.
 

Truster

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There are serious consequences to believing that God is unjust. The doctrine of predestination is a declaration that God is unjust. You cannot believe that God predestinates souls that have not even been born to hell and not believe that God is unjust.

All through the Old Testament and into the New Testament we are taught that salvation is by grace through faith. This means that we believe that God is righteous and that we can trust in him believe in him. It is not humanly possible to love and trust in the God of Calvinism. The God of Calvinism is an unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous tyrant that delight in sending people to hell. You have already condemned yourself to hell because of what you believe in him.

How can He be unjust when He is Good? That means He is intrinsically good, not because of what He does, but because He is GOOD. The fact He laid and lays waste His enemies is GOOD because He has performed it. Amen.
 

Nanja

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There are serious consequences to believing that God is unjust. The doctrine of predestination is a declaration that God is unjust. You cannot believe that God predestinates souls that have not even been born to hell and not believe that God is unjust.


Rom. 9:20-21

Ps. 145:17
 

Samie

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Jesus said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God" John 3:3.

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit" John 3:6.


Peter wrote, "Being born again, not of corruptible seed (Adam) but of incorruptible, BY THE WORD OF GOD, which lives and abides forever" 1 Peter 1:23

Being born again is about receiving the Holy Spirit.
To be born again is to be made alive TOGETHER WITH Christ when He rose from the dead. 1 Pet 1:3.

We are all born into the world as lost sinners
That's against Christ's doctrine as He Himself emphasized in the parables of the lost sheep, lost coin and lost son.

Before the sheep got lost, it was in the sheep fold cared for by its shepherd.
Before the coin was lost, it was with its owner.
Before the son went lost, he was at home with his father.

So with us all. We start life NOT lost. And to be NOT lost is to be in Christ. But we all sinned and like sheep went astray (Isa 53:6). This is why we all are enjoined to repent or perish (Luke 13:3,5).

The word of God is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Those that have been born again are those that have heard the Gospel and believe it.
Really? How can you do the acts of hearing and believing IF you are born in sin and therefore born NOT in Christ Who said you can do NOTHING when NOT in Him?

There is no other way to be born again.
It's God Who caused us to be born again through the resurrection of Christ! 1 Pet 1:3

Catholics believe that they are born again by the works of the law. Do good works, obey the Catholic church and you will be born again. Calvinist believe that some how, at some time, God's zapps them with the Holy Spirit and they are born again. Both of these doctrines are false.
Sorry, but your doctrine is also false.

Christ said man can do NOTHING when NOT in Him, but you oppose Him by teaching that while NOT in Him, man can do SOMETHING - hear and believe.

Christ emphasized in the parables of the lost that people start life NOT lost, and to be NOT lost is to be in Christ. But you teach against what He taught by teaching that people are born in sin, hence born NOT in Christ. Your doctrine is laced with an impurity - the doctrine that people are born in sin, hence born lost.

Are you willing to remove that impurity from the gospel that you preach?
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
To be born again is to be made alive TOGETHER WITH Christ when He rose from the dead. 1 Pet 1:3.

That's against Christ's doctrine as He Himself emphasized in the parables of the lost sheep, lost coin and lost son.

Before the sheep got lost, it was in the sheep fold cared for by its shepherd.
Before the coin was lost, it was with its owner.
Before the son went lost, he was at home with his father.

So with us all. We start life NOT lost. And to be NOT lost is to be in Christ. But we all sinned and like sheep went astray (Isa 53:6). This is why we all are enjoined to repent or perish (Luke 13:3,5).

Really? How can you do the acts of hearing and believing IF you are born in sin and therefore born NOT in Christ Who said you can do NOTHING when NOT in Him?

It's God Who caused us to be born again through the resurrection of Christ! 1 Pet 1:3

Sorry, but your doctrine is also false.

Christ said man can do NOTHING when NOT in Him, but you oppose Him by teaching that while NOT in Him, man can do SOMETHING - hear and believe.

Christ emphasized in the parables of the lost that people start life NOT lost, and to be NOT lost is to be in Christ. But you teach against what He taught by teaching that people are born in sin, hence born NOT in Christ. Your doctrine is laced with an impurity - the doctrine that people are born in sin, hence born lost.

Are you willing to remove that impurity from the gospel that you preach?


The word of God refutes you.

"So then faith comes by hearing and hear by the word of God" Which is the Gospel, Romans 10:17.

"This only would I learn of you. Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (because you did something) or by the hearing of faith? (hearing and believing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2,


On the day of Pentecost over 8,000 Jews heard and believed Peter's Gospel and were saved, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4.

The Gospel and the Holy Spirit is what brings lost sinners to Christ. But if you harden your heart you will not hear, nor will you believe, Hebrews 3:15.
 

Samie

New member
The word of God refutes you.
It's your doctrine it showed false.

"So then faith comes by hearing and hear by the word of God" Which is the Gospel, Romans 10:17.

"This only would I learn of you. Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (because you did something) or by the hearing of faith? (hearing and believing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2,


On the day of Pentecost over 8,000 Jews heard and believed Peter's Gospel and were saved, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4.

The Gospel and the Holy Spirit is what brings lost sinners to Christ. But if you harden your heart you will not hear, nor will you believe, Hebrews 3:15.
You misunderstand Scriptures. The verses you paraded do not back up your doctrine; they instead refute it. Believing can only be done when one is ALREADY in Christ because one can only have faith IF and only IF he already is in Christ.

1. If, as you falsely teach, one is born lost, then he is born NOT in Christ because Christ is the way. John 14:6
2. If he is NOT in Christ, then he cannot bear fruit because only those in Christ can bear fruit. John 15:4, 5
3. If he cannot bear fruit, then he cannot have faith because faith is fruit of the Spirit. Gal 5:22
4. If he cannot have faith, then he cannot believe because faith is needed to believe. Heb 11:6

The impurity in the gospel that you preach makes your gospel false. Remove the impurity - the doctrine that people are born lost - from the gospel that you preach, or be cursed. see Gal 1:6-9.
 
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