What did you believe before Open Theism?

Lon

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"How we got here" is helpful especially for those of us not Open Theists (me and the rest of Christianity). What did you believe before you became an Open Theist? How did you jump the hurdles? How big were they at the time? How resistant or ready were you upon hearing about Open Theism?
 

JudgeRightly

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Growing up my family went to a Christ's Church and another that I don't recall the denomination of, and I attended a Lutheran school.

Then we moved after I finished 4th grade, and we started going to a Baptist church, and attending the school that they hosted. 5th grade to 9th grade.

Then we moved again, and started going to an offshoot of one of Mark Gungor's churches in the town we lived in. 10th grade to graduation.

Then we moved again, and started attending Mark Gungor's church. Got my first job living there in Green Bay.

Then we moved again, to the town I currently live in, and started attending another of that type of praise and worship churches with a full band and singers, dancing, and "speaking in tongues." Started work as a truck driver in 2014.

Started listening to Bob Enyart in 2015, and been listening ever since, and got hooked on what he taught.

Then I moved out into my own place around 2017/2018, and tried attending a Bible church just outside of town, but it just wasn't the same as Denver Bible Church, and I pretty much stopped going. Lovely people, and do want to attend again at some point.

As far as what I personally believed, however, I didn't really hold to any particular belief, other than that God did exist, and, having asked Christ to come into my heart in fifth grade (while attending the school at the Baptist church), I guess you could call me a typical run-of-the-mill Baptist, but I wasn't particularly beholden to any of my beliefs, and until 2015, I definitely wasn't living a Christian life. But Bob's ministry helped me turn my life around, and I've been an open theist/mid-acts dispensationalist ever since I listened to his Plot seminar.
 

Derf

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"How we got here" is helpful especially for those of us not Open Theists (me and the rest of Christianity). What did you believe before you became an Open Theist? How did you jump the hurdles? How big were they at the time? How resistant or ready were you upon hearing about Open Theism?
My dad was a Southern Baptist pastor, before we all went to the mission field for a few years when I was a child. I moved away from the SBC as an adult, trying to figure out homeschooling our kids. We ended up in a Calvinistic Presbyterian church. I can't say I was ever totally on board, but it was an interesting study for several years, talking about things we rarely discussed in the SBC churches. Southern Baptists (and other non-Calvinistic Baptists) are Arminian in terms of the decision source and the scope of the atonement, but they are staunchly against the ability to lose one's salvation.

So, I was pretty firm that God knew all things past and future, without believing that God caused it all. But it didn't make sense to me when I thought through it. I remember counseling a friend about her imminent divorce that she wanted, when she asked if it would cause her to lose her salvation. I told her that God already knew everything she would ever do, and those sins were paid for at the cross already (but that she shouldn't go forward with the divorce).

I stumbled (when looking for refutations of TULIP) on a refutation of the L in TULIP by a guy that claimed that all of the other letters fall if the L falls. I didn't really agree with that, but I was curious about how he described God as not needing to know the future exhaustively to be God, nor to fit the Bible's description of God. It was a turning point in my thinking. Not a hurdle, but a welcome relief, since the Calvinism was clearly wrong (due to what it does to God's nature), and the Arminian position (including the Baptists) wasn't much better. I spent a lot of time researching Open Theism after that, including coming here to TOL and seeing if I could defend it (yes, I know...TOL is friendly to OT, but the other places I went didn't even want to discuss it). It's an easy doctrine to defend, where the others aren't, imo, at least in terms of what God knows or doesn't know and when.

What is funny, though, is that I don't really like Greg Boyd. I ran into his name a few times as referenced by others. The other big names, too, I read sparingly, at most. The view defends itself, once you let go of preconceived notions of God and let the Bible reveal Him. I wasn't too big on picking a label for myself ("Calvinist", "Arminian", "Baptist", etc.), but I jumped on the Open Theism label, even though the label might not be the most accurate--it was the most obvious position.

I've toyed with other traditional doctrines, like the Trinity, and found myself embracing them more fully with the study, but not so with Open Theism. I couldn't go back to the other options these last 10 years. (The one other traditional view I've toyed with and not gone back to is the definition of "death", which I've touched on in a few threads.)
 
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Nick M

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I've toyed with other traditional doctrines, like the Trinity, and found myself embracing them more fully with the study, but not so with Open Theism.
Toyed with? What does the scripture say? I think that is what matters. Can you expound on what you think is in line, and out of step?

I never heard the term before coming here. The advocates ask a question. Can God write a new song? Is he relational? The descriptions given by the advocates line up with what he says about himself in the Bible. As far as I can tell.
 

Derf

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Toyed with? What does the scripture say?
Nobody in Christian doctrinal circles doesn't believe their doctrine comes from scripture. Nobody. That includes trinitarians and non-trinitarians alike.
I think that is what matters. Can you expound on what you think is in line, and out of step?
In line with scripture? And are you talking about my side questions? I'm happy to talk about them, but it's definitely rabbit trail territory for this thread.
I never heard the term before coming here.
The term "Open Theism"? I had a few times. Once or twice (in a negative light) from the pulpit of a Calvinist church I was attending.
The advocates ask a question. Can God write a new song? Is he relational? The descriptions given by the advocates line up with what he says about himself in the Bible. As far as I can tell.
I agree. Disagreers would say we've misunderstood some of those scriptures, but I think it is the most consistent view, while some of those views have to explain away much more by appealing to devices such as anthropomorphic to keep from saying God is the author of evil or a liar.
 
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