ECT water baptism

[SimpleMan77]

Paul did NOT "promote" water baptism. He learned as God revealed it to him that he (Paul) was NOT sent to baptize BUT to preach the gospel.

Paul was in absolute control of what went on in his ministry, and over and over you see people under his ministry getting baptized. Paul said that he mostly didn't do it personally, but the Bible tells of baptisms the happening. If Paul wasn't promoting it, it wouldn't have happened - there's absolutely no way he was allowing someone else to set the agenda and baptize people. Paul would be a rather weak minister if that was the case (which we all know he wasn't).

When I say "over and over you see people under his ministry getting baptized" ,I mean baptizing Gentiles in the middle of the night, baptizing a large number of Corinthians, re-baptizing those who had been baptized a different way than "in Jesus' name".

Are you a Trinitarian? If so, you can take hundreds of scriptures in the OT saying there is only "one God", but say there are 3 persons making up that one God, one of whom was visible in the flesh.

You refuse to take the one verse that says there is one baptism, and refuse to accept that it ALWAYS had 2 parts experientially. It was always water baptism and spirit baptism, inextricably connected in one baptism.


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[Right Divider]

Moses brought the law but GRACE and truth cam by Jesus Christ.

How many more scriptures do you IGNORE to stay in the deception of MAD ?

You get so worked up and frantic that you can't even type it right.

Do you ever wonder?

• Why Paul is the only one that mentions the gospel of the grace of God?
• Why "grace" only appears in Luke (one verse) and John (3 verses) and is MISSING from Matthew and Mark?
• Why "grace" appears in SIXTY SEVEN verses in Paul's epistles?

No, I'm sure that these have escaped your zealous religious mind.

You should take your own advice ALL scripture points to in types and the reality of Jesus.

Yes, all of the prophecies for Israel include those things.

The REVELATION given to Paul had other things that YOU try to MASH into the previous prophecies for Israel and make a mess of the whole thing.

Which has NOTHING to do with Jesus saying teach and baptize the nations.

I was responding to SM77's MENTION of JOHN's water baptism. Why did JOHN baptize with water?

You never even READ what people WRITE. Your ZEALOT mind is so FIXATED on yourself.

 

[jamie]

Are you talking about the time when you went over on dry land? Yes, that was a wonderful dry baptism. Why were the baptized UNTO Moses?

Moses shepherded the first body of Christ and Christ had them pass through the water for their baptism. The Gulf of Aqaba was too deep for them to cross any other way and the Egyptians were not far behind.

We pass through the water also, just not a sea.

 

[jamie]

Do you ever wonder?

• Why Paul is the only one that mentions the gospel of the grace of God?
• Why "grace" only appears in Luke (one verse) and John (3 verses) and is MISSING from Matthew and Mark?
• Why "grace" appears in SIXTY SEVEN verses in Paul's epistles?

No, I'm sure that these have escaped your zealous religious mind.

The answer is simple, Jews were well aware of God's grace, they celebrated it every year. Gentiles, not so much.

 

[dodge]

Right Divider;4852729]You get so worked up and frantic that you can't even type it right

.

Wrong ! Folks that follow themselves cannot "work me up " nor can they get me "frantic".

Do you ever wonder?

• 
  

  [*]Why Paul is the only one that mentions the gospel of the grace of God?

  
  Ever wonder why it is also called the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
  
  Gospel of God.
  
  Everlasting Gospel.
  
  Gospel of Jesus.
  
  ETC. ?
  

  [*]Why "grace" only appears in Luke (one verse) and John (3 verses) and is MISSING from Matthew and Mark?

  
  Nope, Who am I to question why or why not the Holy Spirit put one thing in one book and not in another. My first guess would be that the 4 Gospels are written to different audiences to show different aspects of Jesus.
  
  

  [*]Why "grace" appears in SIXTY SEVEN verses in Paul's epistles?

GRACE is spoken of and displayed by God in the OT , and all the Apostles taught GRACE.
No, I'm sure that these have escaped your zealous religious mind.

The REVELATION given to Paul had other things that YOU try to MASH into the previous prophecies for Israel and make a mess of the whole thing.

I don't mash anything I just don't ignore the rest of scripture and make it fit into a false belief system called MAD.

I was responding to SM77's MENTION of JOHN's water baptism. Why did JOHN baptize with water?

AS our example. Asked and answered in another post.

You never even READ what people WRITE. Your ZEALOT mind is so FIXATED on yourself.

I do read many MAD posts they just don't get past the test compared to what scripture teaches.

 

[jamie]

The first 4 books of the so-called "new testament" are OLD testament. But you know that...

But in either testament it's the same God and God is not wishy-washy.

Why change horses mid stream?

We can lead a horse to water but if we could just get him to roll and bark we would really have something.

 

[Right Divider]

Moses shepherded the first body of Christ and Christ had them pass through the water for their baptism. The Gulf of Aqaba was too deep for them to cross any other way and the Egyptians were not far behind.

We pass through the water also, just not a sea.

That's cute.... almost Biblical.

What does "baptized UNTO Moses" mean?

Why do you always neglect the CLOUD?

​

1Cor 10:1-4 (AKJV/PCE)​

(10:1) Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; (10:2) And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; (10:3) And did all eat the same spiritual meat; (10:4) And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. ​

Do you really think that this passage is a great support for your water ceremony?

 

[Right Divider]

The answer is simple, Jews were well aware of God's grace, they celebrated it every year. Gentiles, not so much.

Then why do many of you (like dodge) quote this as proof that grace had just arrived recently?

John 1:17 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:17) For the law was given by Moses, [but] grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
​

I think that your argument here is extremely weak. Please feel free to support it with scripture.

Why is there not a single quote in the Bible of Jesus using the word grace during His earthly ministry to the circumcision?

He did say "law" many times.

 

[Right Divider]

But in either testament it's the same God and God is not wishy-washy.

Why change horses mid stream?

We can lead a horse to water but if we could just get him to roll and bark we would really have something.

God cannot do what He wants?

You've locked Him in?

BOTH testaments are between God and Israel. And that's not your mythological "Israel".

 

[Ktoyou]

It may be fun to be baptized in the river on a warm Sunday afternoon; however, it does not do much else. Baby baptism, or christening, is neither fun, or providing salvation.

 

[DAN P]

Moses shepherded the first body of Christ and Christ had them pass through the water for their baptism. The Gulf of Aqaba was too deep for them to cross any other way and the Egyptians were not far behind.

We pass through the water also, just not a sea.

Hi jamie , and who where IMMERSED , the Jews who passed through the Red Sea , on DRY land OR the Egyptians who were IMMERSED and DROWNED ??

It seems that the Egyptians all died , it seems to me and it shows that there is not a Greek word for IMMERSTION , is there !!

dan p

 

[Tambora]

Ya might wanna order Trudeau's Mega-Memory - both parts :chuckle:

Numbers 19:18 And a clean person shall take hyssop, and dip it in the water,

Hebrews 9:19 KJV(19) For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,

 

[Crucible]

BOTH testaments are between God and Israel. And that's not your mythological "Israel".

Christianity is Spiritual Israel, it is a fundamental dogma which all belief therein sits upon. If you don't agree with that, there's always Islam :idunno:

 

[Right Divider]

Christianity is Spiritual Israel, it is a fundamental dogma which all belief therein sits upon. If you don't agree with that, there's always Islam :idunno:

Nope... that's churchianity.

Nope, I'll stick with faith in Christ.

 

[Crucible]

Nope... that's churchianity.

Nope, I'll stick with faith in Christ.

^
That's what happens when you disregard half the Bible
Never mind what Peter and Matthew had to say, and would say about those who continuously spout 'churchianity' to justify their arbitrary beliefs.

The remedy for MADism is a history lesson.

 

[Right Divider]

^
That's what happens when you disregard half the Bible

I regard 100% of the Bible 100% of the time.

Never mind what Peter and Matthew had to say, and would say about those who continuously spout 'churchianity' to justify their arbitrary beliefs.

The remedy for MADism is a history lesson.

Yes, I understand that you like your version of history very much.

 

[SimpleMan77]

water baptism

Those who say baptism isn't important cannot explain why Paul would have baptized the Gentile Jailer. They can't explain why he required disciples of John the Baptist to be rebaptized in Jesus name. They can't explain why Paul would have had his assistants baptize converts if he was anti-works like they interpret his doctrine. It absolutely doesn't make sense from their perspective.


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[jamie]

What does "baptized UNTO Moses" mean?

It means the time had not yet been fulfilled for Christ to present the kingdom of God.

In Mark 1:15 Jesus said, "The time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel."

As you know Christ's death and resurrection was planned from the beginning.

 

[jamie]

Why do you always neglect the CLOUD?

The Cloud was Christ, a cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night.

It was he who baptized Israel in the sea.

 

[jamie]

Then why do many of you (like dodge) quote this as proof that grace had just arrived recently?

I have never claimed that. On the contrary, I have claimed Abel was saved by grace.