ECT Water baptism commanded for the BoC?

[Gurucam]

x

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Since you quoted the above, are you agreeing that preaching the gospel with wisdom of words will render Jesus death on the cross of 'none' effect?

Paul confirmed that Jesus sent him to preach the gospel but not with wisdom of words for if he preach the gospel with wisdom of words, Jesus crucifixion will be worthless.

What do you perceive to be the message here?

How does one preach the gospel without wisdom of words? Without words must mean not through physically spoken or physically written words. I would say that each one has to get that gospel directly and intuitively from Jesus, through a communion or connection between the Spirit of Jesus, which is the Spirit of Truth and one's own spirit. That is, like Paul did it.

Therefore here Jesus instructed that Paul show and tell them how to get it the intuitive, spirit to Spirit way in which he got it.

This mean that the gospel which Paul was given by Jesus to preach is not the one that was delivered in physically spoken and physically written word, by Moses and Jesus. Paul was given to tell them that the new gospel was the gospel of Truth. And this gospel must and will be delivered to each of them, directly, privately, individually and intuitively by Jesus, through a connection between His Spirit (which is the Spirit of Truth) and each of their individual spirits.

And this gospel was made available because Jesus was crucified. Indeed, Jesus confirm that it was expedient for Him to go away by crucifixion so that the Spirit of Truth will come and bring All Truth?

Isn't this claim the message in

1 Corinthians: 2 KJV N.T.:

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Is it therefore not clear that Jesus had to die on the cross and sink to earth so that His Spirit, the Spirit of Truth can be regenerated and so bring All Truth.

Then Jesus rose to heaven in that Spirit and Paul followed him in His regenerated Spirit and communed with Him, in His Spirit (which is the Spirit of Truth) and got for the first time for those people, the gospel of All Truth which He delivered thereafter as recorded in the KJV N.T. Meaning that before this they did not have the gospel of All Truth which is the only Christian gospel.

Therefore Paul's gospel is the gospel of All Truth and only that is the Christian gospel. And Paul is not to and cannot deliver it in physically spoken or physically written words. Jesus required him to show the path for each individual to get it like he did, i.e. directly from Jesus, through an intuitive connection between each of their spirit and the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth.

So here Jesus instructed Paul to not deliver only the things which he got intuitively from His Spirit which is the Spirit of Truth through his own spirit. (Spiritual things must be discerned spiritually)

come on . . . help me out here.

 

[heir]

To add any form of water ritual back on top of that, for any reason, is to preach a false gospel.

It doesn't take much to pervert the gospel of Christ.

 

[Gurucam]

1 Corinthians: 1 verse: 18 KJV N.T.

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Preaching about Jesus crucifixion is for those who will perish with foolishness.

However we who have been empowered by Jesus death on the cross are saved.

Jesus went away by being crucified so that His Spirit which is the Spirit of Truth will become available to bring All Truth. To be empowered by Jesus death on the cross one must, like Paul, achieve communion with Jesus in His Spirit which is the Spirit of Truth. This is achieved through a connection between one's own spirit and the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth and so they get All Truth.

The following is All Truth: All Truth is a very personalized and individualized thing. This is how it is got and used: one must discern from within one's own heart or Spirit precisely what the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for one to know, pray for, say and do and be led into all one's works by this.

This is how Paul and other wise people are empowered by the crucifixion of Jesus. This is also how Jesus died for the sins of humans. Jesus died on the cross physically to make His Spirit available. Those who commune with and are led by His Spirit are sin-free, saved and delivered.

When one is led by Jesus' Spirit as discerned in the above manner, one is saved from sin. That is one has God given freedom, liberty and justification to transgress all social, moral and religious ideals and laws (like the Ten Commandments etc.) and get no sin. But instead be glorified by God. Also one is saved and delivered into God's kingdom of heaven and becomes a child of God and differs in no way from Jesus. One is also under grace of God. This is the power side of Jesus death on the cross. This is for Paul and Paul's people.

The physical hearing (through preaching) about Jesus death on the cross is quite another thing. This is for other people. This is for them that perish foolishness. They cannot commune with Jesus in the above manner, i.e. from their spirit to Jesus Spirit. They have to receive things physically. However nothing is earned through the physical way.

Of course the (physical) preaching about Jesus' crucifixion and how He died for people's sin etc. and having people parrot those things must and would continue for them that perish foolish. Although they will not get any thing, they will be appeased and managed into peaceful behavior. (I do not wish to offend anyone, but truth be told, this is what was given to happen and happens, in Jesus' other church)

 

[heir]

x

Since you quoted the above, are you agreeing that preaching the gospel with wisdom of words will render Jesus death on the cross of 'none' effect?

Preaching anything today in addition to the cross for salvation is the "wisdom of words"/ the "wisdom of this world". Paul is not saying that about the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom. Paul is saying "not with wisdom of words" of the religious world! Notice:

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

1 Corinthians 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

1 Corinthians 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

1 Corinthians 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

For example, if Paul yet preached circumcision even though it was revealed to him that in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature, he would make the offence of the cross cease.


Galatians 5:11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.

And to those who would constrain others to be circumcised (today it's water baptism):

Galatians 6:12 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.

Galatians 6:13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.

Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

If he preached circumcision, he would have been a man pleaser, but should not have been the servant of Christ.


Those who are water baptized today are man pleasers. They do it to be accepted into their religious, denominational assemblies lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ. The cross is made of none effect because of it, the offence of the cross is ceased because of it.

Galatians 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

 

[heir]

So Paul spake the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory!



1 Corinthians 2:1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
...

1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

1 Corinthians 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.


It is the preaching of the cross



1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.




according to Paul's my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, but now is made manifest,...!




Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Romans 16:27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

 

[Gurucam]

Preaching anything today in addition to the cross for salvation is the "wisdom of words"/ the "wisdom of this world". Paul is not saying that about the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom. Paul is saying "not with wisdom of words" of the religious world!

I do not understand what you are saying here. I cannot follow your logic?

The verse in question was: 1 Corinthians: 1 verse: 18 KJV N.T.- For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

I know that the many people preach the parables which they perceives to be word of God. Parables make up most of Jesus teachings.

However the parables were given by Jesus, only to those who were not given by God to know the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven. (therefore preaching this seems to be preaching to them that perish foolishness)

Jesus confirmed that the Spirit of Truth (which is His Spirit) brings All Truth.

We know that Paul got all his teaching directly from revelation from Jesus.

We know that Paul communed with the Jesus when He was only in His Spirit body. (this seems to be the idea of unto us which are saved it is the power of God.)

Therefore in 1 Corinthians: 1 verse: 18 KJV N.T., it must be that Jesus instructed Paul to not deliver any thing that was preached before by Him or Moses. These were done in physical words. Instead tell those people to discern Me (Jesus) in my Spirit body, as you have done and I will pass all Truth to each of them intuitively (i.e. the spirit to Spirit way which is without physical words).

Jesus did tell those with the first fruit of the Spirit to search their hearts to know what His Spirit has in mind for them to know, pray for, say and do.

It must be that in 1 Corinthians: 1 verse: 18 KJV N.T., Jesus instructed Paul to not preach as He (Jesus) did before, but instead have people (at least some of them) get All Truth by searching their own hearts or spirits to know intuitively, what His Spirit has in mind for them to know, pray for, say and do. Of course those who are led by the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth are saved.

The cross was mentioned because Jesus death on the cross made it possible for His Spirit to be available to bring All Truth in this spirit to Spirit way.

 

[heir]

I do not understand what you are saying here. I cannot follow your logic?

The verse in question was: 1 Corinthians: 1 verse: 18 KJV N.T.- For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Oh goody, another moving target. Actually it was 1 Corinthians 1:17 KJV

I know that the many people preach the parables which they perceives to be word of God. Parables make up most of Jesus teachings.

However the parables were given by Jesus, only to those who were not given by God to know the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven. (therefore preaching this seems to be preaching to them that perish foolishness)

We're not talking parables when we are talking about what Paul preached. Paul was not given the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven. We know this because Paul could not have been forgiven under the kingdom gospel!


He was a blasphemer against the Holy Ghost and could not have even been forgiven under it!

Matthew 12:31 KJV Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Matthew 12:32 KJV And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Now, either Jesus lied or God was going to do something different when he reached down to save Paul (then Saul). I am not prepared to call God a liar (Titus 1:2 KJV). God was indeed going to do something different trhough Paul!

In Paul (then Saul) FIRST, Jesus Christ would shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them that should thereafter believe on Him to everlasting life:

1 Timothy 1:12-16 KJV And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; 13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

The world was ripe for God's judgment and at the stoning of Stephen, rather than judgment coming (the wrath to come), God saved the chief of sinners (Acts 9, 1 Timothy 1:13-16 KJV), His biggest enemy (Galatians 1:11-16 KJV), and through His apostleship/his "office" (Romans 11:13 KJV, 1 Timothy 2:7 KJV, 2 Timothy 1:11 KJV) by the unscheduled appearance(s)/revelations from the risen, glorified Lord Jesus Christ to and through him~God began a mystery body, time, gospel and eternal destination; an inheritance far above all heavens!

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Peter and the other Disciples were sent to preach the "Kingdom message"
to the 'House of Israel!' That message was; that they would be ruled over
by their Messiah (Christ) Who would sit on the throne of David, here on
earth! Which some call the 1000 year reign or the Millennial kingdom!

Whereas, Paul was preaching the "Grace message" to the gentiles. That
message was; God's Grace, forgiveness, mercy, and eternal life through
faith (alone) in Christ as their Lord and Savior. Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by
grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it
is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."

Both the Kingdom believers and the Grace believers (Body of Christ) had
to place their faith in Christ, in order to receive the Kingdom (for the Jews)
and their presence with God in Heaven. (The Grace believers)

That is the doctrine of the JWs.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

What does; "In his own future mean?" Christ was not speaking of "water baptism" to Nicodemus!

If He was not speaking of both water baptism and receiving the Holy Spirit, then He was sending His disciples with a different message, which he did not--

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

LA

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

That is the doctrine of the JWs.

LA

BALONEY!! :cigar:

 

[Lazy afternoon]

BALONEY!! :cigar:

Not balony.

The JWs teach, a people who will go to Heaven and a people who inherit the earth, like you believe.

LA

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

If He was not speaking of both water baptism and receiving the Holy Spirit, then He was sending His disciples with a different message, which he did not--

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

LA

The context of Jesus conversation 'wasn't' water baptism or the
wording would have used "Baptism!" The context was about being
born physically (by water) and being born Spiritually (by the Spirit)

John 3:5 states; "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee,
Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he
cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

Flesh begets flesh and Spirit begets Spirit! Your Mother gives
physical birth and the Holy Spirit gives you; Spiritual
birth!
Thus, you are "born from above!"

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Not balony.

The JWs teach, a people who will go to Heaven and a people who inherit the earth, like you believe.

LA

The Jews will be reigned over by the Lord Jesus, who will be sitting
on the throne of David! That's called the "Millennial Kingdom" or
the 1,000 year reign of Christ! The gentiles 'true believers' will
inherit Heaven (Eternal LIFE) the moment they die physically!

 

[Lazy afternoon]

The context of Jesus conversation 'wasn't' water baptism or the
wording would have used "Baptism!" The context was about being
born physically (by water) and being born Spiritually (by the Spirit)

John 3:5 states; "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee,
Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he
cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

Flesh begets flesh and Spirit begets Spirit! Your Mother gives
physical birth and the Holy Spirit gives you; Spiritual
birth!
Thus, you are "born from above!"

You are wrong..

Nico was born from his mother years before, but Jesus was telling him the same as throughout the book of Acts as the scriptures show.

posted above.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

The Jews will be reigned over by the Lord Jesus, who will be sitting
on the throne of David! That's called the "Millennial Kingdom" or
the 1,000 year reign of Christ! The gentiles 'true believers' will
inherit Heaven (Eternal LIFE) the moment they die physically!

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[heir]

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

That is those to whom Paul was first sent! Acts 26:17 KJV, Acts 13:26 KJV

IOW, that wouldn't even be you if you were saved. Get saved and then get it straight!

 

[Lazy afternoon]

That is those to whom Paul was first sent! Acts 26:17 KJV, Acts 13:26 KJV

IOW, that wouldn't even be you if you were saved. Get saved and then get it straight!

If He was not speaking of both water baptism and receiving the Holy Spirit, then He was sending His disciples with a different message, which he did not--

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

LA

 

[heir]

What does; "In his own future mean?" Christ was not speaking of "water baptism" to Nicodemus!

He totally wasn't. LA the lost has no idea what he(?) is talking about.

Nicodemus should have known what the Lord spoke of as he was a master of Israel and should have understood from that of Ezekiel 37.

And noine of that has anything to do with the one baptism by one Spirit today which is what THIS thread is about!

 

[Lazy afternoon]

He totally wasn't. LA the lost has no idea what he(?) is talking about.

Nicodemus should have known what the Lord spoke of as he was a master of Israel and should have understood from that of Ezekiel 37.

And noine of that has anything to do with the one baptism by one Spirit today which is what THIS thread is about!

If you have not the Spirit first sent by the first Apostles, then you have not the Spirit of the new birth, the new creation.

Jud 1:3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.


LA

 

[heir]

If you have not the Spirit first sent by the first Apostles, then you have not the Spirit of the new birth, the new creation.

Jud 1:3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.


LA

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Romans 16:27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

1 Corinthians 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Things that are different are NOT the same! hahaha! It works in this thread, too!

"Contrasts"~ john w the greatest