ECT Water baptism commanded for the BoC?

[PhilipJames]

Hello hier,

Hope you don't mind, I'm gonna do a little copy/paste and try to answer your last few posts in one...

born of water=birth
born of the Spirit=resurrection

hmm.... think I already addressed this but let's try again:

John 3:3-6

Jesus answered and said to him, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born 3 from above."

Nicodemus said to him, "How can a person once grown old be born again? Surely he cannot reenter his mother's womb and be born again, can he?"

Jesus answered, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.

What is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of spirit is spirit.

Note Jesus is equating 'born from above' with 'being born of water and the Spirit'

Nicodemus' question showed the carnal mind and is what Jesus is dismissing when HE says 'born of flesh is flesh'

Further, why should Nicodemus have understood this? Because the Jews were already familiar with baptism as a means to cleanse not just the body but the soul....

Neither have anything to do with the Body of Christ and everything to do with Israel (Nicodemus was a master of Israel and should have known, as in Ezekiel 37).

The kingdom of God has nothing to do with the Body of Christ??? Perhaps you better reread your NT.. the kingdom of GOD has EVERYTHING to do with the Body of Christ!

moving on:

Members of the Body of Christ are not "born again", but a new creature in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17 KJV).

Romans 6:3-4

Or are you unaware that we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

We were indeed buried with him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might live in newness of life.

Is this not being born again? In fact , if you have become a 'new creature' how can you NOT say you were 'born again' . The creature that you were, has died and the new life has BEGUN!

moving on:

Are you saved, Philip?

I have been saved by the Grace of God, I am being saved by the Grace of God, and I hope to be saved by the Grace of God, running the race to its completion. (if you wish me to expand on this I gladly will)

If you are, the moment you believed the gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV

I have believed in and walked with Christ (not always faithfully) my entire life that I can remember..

you were baptized BY ONE SPIRIT into one Body (1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV). The Spirit is the baptizer, not man by water.

The 'baptizer' is indeed God: The Father, Son and Holy Spirit. And the ordinary way to receive this baptism (by water and Spirit) is to have it administered by a member of the Church.

Is it that the ordinary means through which HE does this, is through a man, the issue here for you?

Peace!
PJ

 

[heir]

Is it that the ordinary means through which HE does this, is through a man, the issue here for you?

No, the issue is that our apostle Paul tells us there is but one baptism today, tells us what it is in Romans trhough Philemon and tells us Who it is "by" and it's "by one Spirit". It's identification by the Spirit into Christ's death (Romans 6:3 KJV, Galatians 3:27 KJV)/into the Body of Christ

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

But religion won't keep it (Ephesians 4:1-6 KJV). To try and attach what was to Israel to the Body of Christ is a failure or by some, a flat out refusal to rightly divide the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15 KJV).

 

[PhilipJames]

Hello heir,

No,

Ok great!

the issue is that our apostle Paul tells us there is but one baptism today, tells us what it is in Romans trhough Philemon and tells us Who it is "by" and it's "by one Spirit". It's identification by the Spirit into Christ's death (Romans 6:3 KJV, Galatians 3:27 KJV)/into the Body of Christ

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

I agree! That IS what Paul tells us. Look carefully at what you just wrote....whether we be Jews or gentiles.... there is no longer any distinction between us, there is but ONE baptism (Christian baptism).
And why is that? Because God came and wed HIS people (those that accepted HIM) as HE promised to do. And the gentiles have been 'grafted in' to that relationship! What a blessing for us!!

And Paul who was a Pharisee and scholar was trained and perhaps understood these things more than the simple fishermen like Peter? But it is the same Gospel nonetheless as Paul makes clear by saying ' ONE faith, One baptism, ONE LORD...
and yet he (Saul) was blind to the Truth until when?... when did the scales fall from his eyes?...

But religion won't keep it (Ephesians 4:1-6 KJV). To try and attach what was to Israel to the Body of Christ is a failure or by some, a flat out refusal to rightly divide the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15 KJV).

heir, I love your fervor.. but I don't understand how you can read Eph 4:1-6 and see the Jews and gentiles as separate and following 2 different gospels... 2 different Faiths...

Consider Romans 11:13-29... Is it we who are 'trying to attach Israel' or is it GOD who has attached us to Israel!

Peace!
PJ

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

bwahahaha! We all know why you won't address the request in the OP...you can't!

And FYI, I've already been translated into the kingdom of God's dear Son

AMEN!!!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

John 3:5 Jesus states; "Jesus answered, Verily, verily,
I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of
the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

When a baby is born into the world, the Mothers "water"
breaks and the baby is subsequently born thereafter!

Jesus was saying that, a man/woman must first be born
by water, in other words be, "physically born!" Followed
by, "born again Spiritually" in order to enter the Kingdom
of God!

 

[Lazy afternoon]

John 3:5 Jesus states; "Jesus answered, Verily, verily,
I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of
the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

When a baby is born into the world, the Mothers "water"
breaks and the baby is subsequently born thereafter!

Jesus was saying that, a man/woman must first be born
by water, in other words be, "physically born!" Followed
by, "born again Spiritually" in order to enter the Kingdom
of God!

Jesus was explaining the truth to Nicodemus who was already born from his mothers womb.

Jesus was telling him he had to be born of water and of the Holy Spirit in his own future.

LA

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Peter and the other Disciples were sent to preach the "Kingdom message"
to the 'House of Israel!' That message was; that they would be ruled over
by their Messiah (Christ) Who would sit on the throne of David, here on
earth! Which some call the 1000 year reign or the Millennial kingdom!

Whereas, Paul was preaching the "Grace message" to the gentiles. That
message was; God's Grace, forgiveness, mercy, and eternal life through
faith (alone) in Christ as their Lord and Savior. Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by
grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it
is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."

Both the Kingdom believers and the Grace believers (Body of Christ) had
to place their faith in Christ, in order to receive the Kingdom (for the Jews)
and their presence with God in Heaven. (The Grace believers)

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Jesus was explaining the truth to Nicodemus who was already born from his mothers womb.

Jesus was telling him he had to be born of water and of the Holy Spirit in his own future.

LA

What does; "In his own future mean?" Christ was not speaking of "water baptism" to Nicodemus!

 

[Gurucam]

Jesus left two instructions which correspond to two different baptisms (and actually two different commissions/churches).

The two instructions are:

1.) let the dead bury their dead (Peter's commission/church).

2.) follow me in my regenerated Spirit (Paul's commission/church).

These relate to two baptisms, as follows:

Baptism # 1 - water baptism relates to those who are buried in the earth, with their dead physical bodies when they die on earth, in the hope that Jesus will raise them out of the earth, in the day of the lord Jesus. (after 2000 years, this day is still to come) Only 'the dead', i.e. the spiritually dead, are buried with their dead physical bodies for any reason.

Such people are baptized with water because they are 'the dead' (i.e. dead to their spirit bodies). Water represent our physical body (it's mostly water). Receipt of water baptism is an acknowledgement that one is not aware of one's own spirit (or inward man). It is an acknowledgment that one is aware of only one's physical body (or natural man).

Such a one must be under the law for his righteousness. Receiving water baptism is accepting the law and being subjected to the law. And under which there is no forgiveness of sin when one transgress the law. This is the gospel of circumcision. This relates to Jesus' first church which was committed onto Peter which is anchored in the dead burying their dead (in the hope that Jesus will return in physical to help them out of the earth)

This is Jesus' Satanic commission/church. No doubt you will know that Peter's commission and ideas are not only in Catholic churches. These have infiltrated, over taken and corrupted what was supposed to be the Christian (spirit and Spirit based) commission. As it stand now what is widely held to be Christianity is not Christianity at all. And indeed many (at least one billion strong) are called there but only a few chosen.

People in this commission could not and did not follow Jesus in His regenerated Spirit as Paul did. They were duped into following Peter's commission. Therefore they could not and did not commune with the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth. And they could not be and were not led by the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth, as Paul. They cannot be and are not Christians, simply because they are the dead who, when they die on earth, are being buried by their dead counterparts.

Baptism # 2 - Spirit baptism relates to those who followed Jesus in His regenerated Spirit.

Following Jesus in His regenerated Spirit is the act of discerning and communing with Jesus in His Spirit, which is the Spirit of Truth.

Spirit baptism is the practice of being led into all of one's works by precisely what this Spirit has in mind for one to know, pray for say and do, as Paul did.

This commission is under the gospel of un-circumcision. This is righteousness of God that is without any social, moral and religious ideas and laws (like the Ten Commandments and canons etc.)

This church (which is Jesus Christian spirit/Spirit based church) is founded on the New order as follows:

a.) the liberty to do all manner of sin and blasphemy, except blasphemy of the Holy Ghost and be forgiven.

b.) this liberty is automatic. However it is available only where the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth is present.

The Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth is eternally present in the spirit realm.

However the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth is present on earth only among humans who are led into all of their works by precisely what this Spirit has in mind for each one of them to know, pray for say and do, as discerned within each of their respective hearts or spirits. As Paul.

Therefore this liberty is enshrined only in Jesus' second option, i.e. following Jesus in His regenerated Spirit.

This liberty (to do all manner of sin and blasphemy, except blasphemy of the Holy Ghost and be forgiven) is earned individually and automatically only through direct person communion with Jesus in His Spirit, by those who are led by this Spirit in the above manner. It cannot be had through confession of sin to a pope or priest etc.

People in this church differs in no way form Jesus (except that Jesus is the head of the body of Christ). When they die on earth, they immediately rise out of their physical bodies. Then Jesus in His Spirit is present and meets them. Then they rise in a few day (like Jesus) to be like angels in heaven. They are never buried with their dead physical bodies.

This and only this is Spirit baptism. This defines Jesus' Christian commission/church which was committed onto to only Paul.

Both baptisms are relevant on earth today. The former (water baptism) must be used by only Peter's people. The latter (Spirit baptism) is the automatic fabric of only Paul's commission and Paul's people

 

[Gurucam]

.

Baptism 1. - People who are baptized with water are in Jesus' Satanic commission/church, under Peter. No doubt you will know that Peter's commission and ideas are not only in Catholic churches. These have infiltrated, over taken and corrupted what was supposed to be the Christian (spirit and Spirit based) commission as committed onto Paul. As it stand now what is widely held to be Christianity is not Christianity at all. And indeed many (at least one billion strong) are called there but only a few chosen.

People in this make believed Christian commission (called traditional Christianity) could not and did not follow Jesus in His regenerated Spirit as Paul did. They were duped into following Peter's commission under the name Christianity. These churches are actually, glorified Catholic churches which are slight modifications of the Old Mosaic church.

Therefore they are not under the Christian (spirit to Spirit) commission and church as committed onto Paul. That is, they did not follow Jesus in His regenerated Spirit. Therefore they could not and did not commune with the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth. And they could not be and were not led by the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth, as Paul. They cannot be and are not Christians, simply because they are the dead who, when they die on earth, were and are, buried with their dead physical bodies by their dead counterparts. (i.e. they did not leave their dead physical bodies when that body died on earth. They stayed with it and was buried with it, in the hope that Jesus will come some day to lift them out of the earth). They are still in the earth.

Baptism 2. - People who are baptized with the Spirit are fabric of Jesus spirit and Spirit based Christian commission/church. They are Christians (the real authentic ones). Therefore they differ in no way from Jesus (except that Jesus is the head of the body of Christ). When they die on earth, they immediately rise out of their physical bodies. Then, Jesus in His Spirit, is present and meets them. Then they rise in a few day (like Jesus) to be like angels in heaven. They are never buried with their dead physical bodies.

Today there seems to be validation by people (from their own death or near death experiences) of rising immediately out of their dead physical bodies in their spirit bodies and meeting Jesus in His Spirit and then very soon after rising in white light to heaven. This is very much in line with following Jesus in His regenerated Spirit. However it not at all consistent with what is taught in Catholicism and traditional Christianity where, when one dies on earth, one is buried with one's dead physical body to wait (infinitely) on the day of the lord Jesus who had not come even after 2000 odd years.

Seems that both options are valid. The question is which one have you adopted?

Also there is a long tradition of Peter's people denying, persecuting, blaspheming and relegating Paul's people.

The other question is where do you stand in all of this.

It is time to wake up and smell the aroma of truth and Truth.

 

[rainee]

You're 100% correct! Even John the Baptist foretold this; "I indeed
have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy
Ghost." (Mark 1:8)

That is so good, Gros! Very True! Acts 1:5

So explain please with Scriptures WHY they continued baptizing with water after Pentecost in light of this?
Why?
(I can't hear you, please speak up) WHY?



Or explain please WHY did they continue baptizing with water after Paul had gone to the Gentiles? Acts 16:14,15

What?
Why?

And please what does this mean:
1 Corinthians 1:15

Does this mean Paul was against water baptism, perchance? Or was it that he didn't like their human nature running amok?

Or maybe this means he was against water baptism:

1 Corinthians 15:29

Why are those Gentiles still being baptized, Gros??

 

[Randy2]

All Corinthians were Water Baptized in JESUS name.
1 Corinthians 1:2 and 1 Corinthians 1:13

There is One body of Christ. Ephesians 2:14-15 John 10:16

 

[heir]

I agree! That IS what Paul tells us. Look carefully at what you just wrote....whether we be Jews or gentiles.... there is no longer any distinction between us, there is but ONE baptism (Christian baptism).

You seem to be confused as to who was/is baptized into one Body. No one before Paul is in the one Body. Paul was the first (1 Timothy 1:16 KJV). And only those to whom Paul was sent are in the Body and Paul was first sent to the Jew first and also to the Greek (Acts 26:17 KJV, Romans 1:16 KJV, 1 Corinthians 1:24 KJV).

And why is that? Because God came and wed HIS people (those that accepted HIM) as HE promised to do. And the gentiles have been 'grafted in' to that relationship! What a blessing for us!!

You seem to be confused. We are not a holy nation, a royal priesthood nor "the Bride". The Body is masculine, "His body"! And we are not grafted in to anything!

And Paul who was a Pharisee and scholar was trained and perhaps understood these things more than the simple fishermen like Peter? But it is the same Gospel nonetheless as Paul makes clear by saying ' ONE faith, One baptism, ONE LORD...

Paul didn't write one gospel, now did he, because there is no such thing as "one gospel" in the Bible! there's a lot of different good new in the Bible, but it's not all the good news of our salvation!

and yet he (Saul) was blind to the Truth until when?... when did the scales fall from his eyes?...

When Ananias laid his hands on him.

Acts 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

Acts 9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

heir, I love your fervor.. but I don't understand how you can read Eph 4:1-6 and see the Jews and gentiles as separate and following 2 different gospels... 2 different Faiths...

Ephesians 4 is the unity of the Spirit, but it's not Israel to which it speaks although those to whom Paul first gathered into the Body (Romans 11:1-5 KJV) during the time of promise in the book of Acts were in the commonwealth (Acts 13:26 KJV, Galatians 3:29 KJV).

Consider Romans 11:13-29... Is it we who are 'trying to attach Israel' or is it GOD who has attached us to Israel!

So, it's good news to you that you can be cut off? That's not true of anyone who is saved in the Body of Christ. We cannot be cut off as we aren't grafted in, but baptized (identified) by one Spirit into one Body (1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV) and sealed unto the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 4:30 KJV)!

 

[musterion]

All Corinthians were Water Baptized in JESUS name.
1 Corinthians 1:2 and 1 Corinthians 1:13

There is One body of Christ. Ephesians 2:14-15 John 10:16

Yet Paul told the Ephesians there was now "one baptism" (Eph 4:5) for all: being identified with Christ by the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 12:13).

Baptism with water + baptism by the Holy Spirit into Christ's body without water = 2 different baptisms.

Can 2 = 1?

 

[Catholic Crusader]

I keep seeing people claim that water baptism is commanded for members of the Body of Christ............

That's right. People like you keep screwing up scriptures, and overlook the fundamental FACT that Jesus, in his Great Commission, commanded the apostles to teach and baptize:

Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. And when they saw him they worshiped him; but some doubted. And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.” (Matthew 28:16-20)

And by the way, for you scriptural screwups who keep saying only some books are for Christians and not all apostles are for gentiles, take note of Christ's command: He tells ALL ELEVEN to go forth and BAPTIZE and make disciples of ALL NATIONS. They are all for all, none of these fake divisions you people have created. And that was before Paul was even called!!! He tells all the apostles to make disciples of ALL nations.

Now, quit screwing up the Bible.

 

[heir]

Yet Paul told the Ephesians there was now "one baptism" (Eph 4:5) for all: being identified with Christ by the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 12:13).

Baptism with/in water + baptism by the Holy Spirit into Christ's body without water = 2 different baptisms.

Can 2 = 1?

The new core curriculum of churchianity teaches them, "it's all good and all the same", "no need to count" just close the Book and "be counted"/spoiled with this worthless modern day tradition of men as they constrain them to be water baptize or babble like idiots to make a fair shew in the flesh that they might glory in their flesh (puffed up like chickens).

Galatians 6:13 KJV

 

[heir]

That's right. People like you keep screwing up scriptures, and overlook the fundamental FACT that Jesus, in his Great Commission, commanded the apostles to teach and baptize:

That's not us and not our commission.

 

[heir]

People like you keep screwing up scriptures, and overlook the fundamental FACT that Jesus, in his Great Commission, commanded the apostles to teach and baptize:

And by the way, for you scriptural screwups...

Now, quit screwing up the Bible.

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

...

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

 

[musterion]

Water baptisms were tied to God's purposes for Israel; they were established for Israel. Every water baptism seen in the book of Acts was done while Paul was still trying to provoke Jews to jealously. All of them are seen prior to the final dusting off seen in Acts 28. AFTER THAT POINT, in his letters, we find no command, no description, no instruction for water baptism (we don't even see such in his earlier letters, either). Just like the miraculous sign gifts for the conviction of unbelieving Israel (1 Cor 1:22; 1 Cor 14:22) faded and stopped (2 Tim 4:20), so too Israelite water rituals became meaningless as all were counted in unbelief and national distinctions became meaningless. Identification with Christ by grace though faith without works was, and is now, everything. To add any form of water ritual back on top of that, for any reason, is to preach a false gospel.

 

[rainee]

Peter and the other Disciples were sent to preach the "Kingdom message"
to the 'House of Israel!' That message was; that they would be ruled over
by their Messiah (Christ) Who would sit on the throne of David, here on
earth! Which some call the 1000 year reign or the Millennial kingdom!

Whereas, Paul was preaching the "Grace message" to the gentiles. That
message was; God's Grace, forgiveness, mercy, and eternal life through
faith (alone) in Christ as their Lord and Savior. Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by
grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it
is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."

Both the Kingdom believers and the Grace believers (Body of Christ) had
to place their faith in Christ, in order to receive the Kingdom (for the Jews)
and their presence with God in Heaven. (The Grace believers)

Wow, I just saw this. And yes - my apologies. Well said and much better than I thought it would be.
But still:
Ecclesiastes 8:7