ECT Water baptism commanded for the BoC?

[heir]

To this day I make Jews jealous. Don't you?
I can even make Messianics a type of jealous.

But I fear you cannot.

LOL There are no Jews to provoke. The remnant was gathered by the close of the Acts provoking ministry.

You make me laugh!

 

[Gurucam]

You ignore what is there.
1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

The quote says: 'life everlasting'.

'Life everlasting' pertains to only the Spirit of Jesus, one's own spirit and the Holy Ghost. 'Life everlasting' also pertains to things that are delivered only from a personal and individualized spirit (of a person) to Spirit (Spirit of Jesus) communion, like only Paul had. ('not seen' Spirit of Jesus and spirit things are discerned only through one's own spirit)

Jesus instructed; 'look not to things that are 'seen' (i.e. detected through our five physical senses). For those things are temporal. Instead look to things that 'not seen' (things that are not physical but spirit and spiritual). For those things are eternal.

. . . therefore one must follow only Paul and be like Paul. That is one must look through one's own spirit, Jesus' Spirit and also to direct intuitive spirit revelation from the Spirit of Jesus, for life everlasting

Humans from their own spirits, must go through the Spirit of Jesus to achieve connectivity with the Holy Ghost. This and only this is the fabric of life eternal. 'The letter' which is all the written scriptures, are 'seen' and therefore temporal and therefore not at all eternal. The letter killteh, only the Spirit giveth life.

Things that are seen include Moses and Jesus when they were in physical bodies on earth. Things that are seen also include all the things which were delivered by Moses and Jesus when they were in human physical bodies on earth. These are all 'seen' things. Jesus instructed that we not look to these seen things. We are to look to revelations which come to us from the Spirit of Jesus through our own individual spirit. This is the Truth. Only the Spirit of Truth (Jesus in only His Spirit body) brings All Truth. through a spirit to Spirit connection. All Truth is the basis of life eternal. This how Paul and only Paul got it.

Now every one must achieve intuitive (not seen) communion with Jesus Spirit which is the Spirit of Truth . . . like Paul. Then each one will get All Truth through this connection between one's own spirit and the Spirit of Jesus. This is how one looks to things that are not 'seen' and therefore relate to life eternal.

This is the only path to life eternal.

Only our Spirit and the Spirit of Jesus and the Holy Spirit and other things spiritual are eternal. We have to achieve awareness of these things into order to have the essential platform for life eternal. One cannot be the dead and have life eternal. One must be spiritually aware to have life eternal.

 

[Gurucam]

And I need to apologize for not bringing this up again:
1 Corinthians 15:29

1 Corinthians 15:29 KJV N.T. - Otherwise, what will they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? Why then are they baptized for the dead?

Jesus gave two approaches:
1.) let the dead bury their dead and

2.) follow me in my regenerated Spirit.

Indeed water baptism is for the dead who are buried with their dead physical bodies in the hope that Jesus will rises them out of the earth in the day of the lord Jesus.

Spirit baptism is for those who followed Jesus in His regenerated Spirit. They become Christians and differ in no way from Jesus. When they die they are not buried with their dead physical bodies. Their dead physical bodies are buried without them.

When they die on earth, they rise immediately out of their dead physical bodies, in their spirit bodies. Jesus clad in only His Spirit body meets them. Then, like Jesus they rise, only in their own spirit bodies, in no more than a few days, to be like angels in heaven.

These people (who are baptized with the Spirit of Jesus), are not in the earth with their dead physical bodies waiting on Jesus to come in a physical body to shout out to them so that they might raise out of the earth. Instead they join Jesus i(who is in His Spirit body only) in heaven in their spirit body immediately after their physical death. (later on, they return to earth as born from heaven, children of God, as first born, among many brethren.

 

[Nick M]

hello hier,


rather it says that Paul is the greatest of sinners. It does NOT say he is the first to be redeemed.

No it doesn't. What is a "prototype"? What is a "pattern". You don't want to be on the record as perverting the gospel. So be honest with your answer.

1 Timothy 1

16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.

Hello heir,


You are reading something into this passage that just isn't there.

1 Timothy 1

16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.

 

[Gurucam]

hello hier,

rather it says that Paul is the greatest (or first if you insist) of sinners. It does NOT say he is the first to be forgiven and redeemed

Of course it says that Paul was the first to be redeemed. He was the first to commune with the Spirit of Jesus and to be led by this Spirit. This made him first to be forgiven and redeemed from all manner of sin and blasphemy except blasphemy of the Holy Ghost which he never did.

Matthew 12:31 KJV - Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy (including denial and blasphemy of the law and canons and Peter and Peter's church and the things which Jesus the man delivered and Jesus in his physical body (not Jesus in His Spirit body)) shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. Matthew 12:32 KJV And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Paul did all manner of sin and blasphemy, including denial and blasphemy of the law and canons and Peter' church. He also denied and blaspheme the son of man, i.e. the physical Jesus and the teaching which Jesus deliver as a man on earth. However Paul did not deny and blaspheme the Holy Ghost.

Paul got forgiveness or redemption for those things only because after Jesus was crucified, Paul communed with Jesus in His Spirit and was led into all his works by precisely what this Spirit had in mind for him to know, pray for, say and do as discerned directly and intuitively from this Spirit.

Paul confirmed that now (as from then 2000 years ago) the lords is that Spirit and where that Spirit is there is liberty.

Therefore Paul's liberty to do all those manner of sin and blasphemy and be forgiven and/or redeemed was earned only because the Spirit of Jesus was present with him.

Paul brought the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth to his (Paul's) life on earth by first communing with Jesus in His Spirit and then by being led into all his (Paul's) works by precisely what this Spirit had in mind for him to know, pray for, say and do as discerned directly and intuitively from this Spirit.

In this manner the Spirit of Jesus was present and Paul had liberty to do and redemption from doing all manner of sin and blasphemy, including denial and blasphemy of the law and canons and Peter' church. Including denial and blasphemy of the son of man, i.e. the physical Jesus and the teaching which Jesus deliver as a man on earth. Paul was forgiven for all these things because the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth was present in his life and therefore with him.

Paul never denied or deny and/or blaspheme or blasphemed the Holy Ghost.

This is the only way that other humans can have forgiveness and/or redemption for any sin.

It is confirmed that Jesus died on the cross for 'our' sin. The following is how it works, forgiveness of sin works no other way.

Jesus died on the cross so that His Spirit (the Spirit of Truth) can be available to bring All Truth. It is the presence of this Spirit which give liberty (past, present and future) for one to do all manner of sin and blasphemy, except blasphemy of the Holy Ghost and be forgiven and or redeemed.

Each person must commune with Jesus in His Spirit through one's own spirit and then be led (24-7) into all of one's works by precisely what this Spirit had in mind for one to know, pray for, say and do as discerned directly and intuitively from this Spirit, through one's own heart or spirit.

This is the only path to forgiveness of sin.

Of course no one will ever be forgiven for denying and blaspheming the Holy Ghost.

It is because the above is not known and adapted in traditional Christianity that daily and yearly and for millennium, many are called (to Christianity) and the very great majority (all but a few) are gravely misled and they err and are not chosen.

You are privy to it in these last days, now in the fullness of time.

Romans: 4 verse: 25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

 

[rainee]

...

Hi Gurucam!
hadn't seen you in a while.
I'm mainstream so cannot really apply what you offer, sorry.

If you ever want to come in from the fringe please post it here on TOL.
People probably would find your testimony fascinating, I think I would!
Take care,
r

ps The Lord prolly never had a regenerated Spirit.

 

[rainee]

LOL There are no Jews to provoke. The remnant was gathered by the close of the Acts provoking ministry.

You make me laugh!

Dear Heir,

I understand you have been conversing with Gurucam so maybe you are laughing at strange things, but I assure you I am not that funny.


If you are a Gentile then how can you be so sure God didn't keep around Jews?

 

[Gurucam]

\

Hi Gurucam!
hadn't seen you in a while.
I'm mainstream so cannot really apply what you offer, sorry.

Do you mean through your 'eyes to see'.

Hi yourself. Good to hear from you.

So you are among those billion or so people who cannot be the chosen few? You are among the many (at least a billion strong) who are called to Christianity.

Do you accept or deny Jesus' prophesy that the very great majority (all but a few) of you guys (who are called to Christianity) will err because you are misled (by false prophets who came in Jesus name) and you all will not be chosen, i.e. you all will not make it.

Are you really contented to be among those billion or so people? Some call them traditional Christians, other call them main stream Christians. Fact is, according to the lord Jesus, you guys are way way to many to be the chosen few.

The Lord prolly never had a regenerated Spirit.

Never did, until he was crucified and sank into the earth. He got one after He was crucified and sank to the earth. His Spirit was regenerate in the earth and He rose out of the earth in that regenerated Spirit body. Then He rose to heaven, in that regenerated Spirit body, to sit on the right or spirit side of God. (you do know that the right side is the spirit/intuitive side) Then Paul communed with Him and all He had on was that regenerated Spirit Body. Then Paul told us that now Jesus is Lord in His regenerated Spirit.

Kind of weird story and a hard act to follow, for you guys in main stream Christianity? You guys like the letter which killeth and the law which is a curse. You guys do not like the Spirit which giveth life. You guys deny, blaspheme and relegate the Spirit, don't you?

Paul confirmed that now (as from then 2000 years ago) the lords is that Spirit and where that Spirit is there is liberty.

We know from long ago that Jesus is Lord. Then immediately after Jesus went to heaven and Paul communed with Him in His Spirit, Paul confirmed to all, that now, the lord is that Spirit.

Who then, is your lord if it is not Jesus in His Spirit body.

Romans: 4 verse: 25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification 1 Corinthians: 15 verse: 44 - Here Paul confirmed that Jesus' body was sown a natural body and raised a spiritual body. .

Jesus is lord in His Spirit and He was raised in His Spirit body, to heaven for our justification. And where this Spirit is present (whether in spirit heaven or heaven on earth), there is both liberty and justification. To do what?

What do you perceive to be the liberty and justification which the presence of Jesus in His Spirits affords?

Do you think it has any thing to do with The Acts: 13 verses: 39 KJV N.T. - And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Look that word, 'justify' coming up again.

2 Corinthians: 3 verse: 17 KJV N.T. - Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Look that word, 'liberty' coming up also.. This time with the Spirit which you say people in main stream Christianity do not recognize.

We know that Jesus is Lord. How can Paul say that now the lord is that Spirit? Indeed Paul should know better, for he has just communed with Jesus in His Spirit.

Seems that Paul just want to oppose you guy in main stream Christianity who, as you say, hold the view that: 'the Lord prolly never had a regenerated Spirit'.

And to say that where that Spirit is there is liberty? Paul is certainly defying you guys in main stream Christianity. You guy hold the view that no one has liberty to transgress the law, don't you?

How strange?

Does your gospel include the KJV N.T.?

 

[Lazy afternoon]

1 Timothy 1

16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.

This is child stuff.

What is it saying?


Why add to what it says?


LA

 

[heir]

If you are a Gentile then how can you be so sure God didn't keep around Jews?

Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

 

[heir]

Dear Heir,

I understand you have been conversing with Gurucam so maybe you are laughing at strange things, but I assure you I am not that funny.


If you are a Gentile then how can you be so sure God didn't keep around Jews?

Acts 28:27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Acts 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

 

[Gurucam]

Dear Heir,

I understand you have been conversing with Gurucam so maybe you are laughing at strange things, but I assure you I am not that funny.

Why do you perceive that your not being funny is an assurance?

Seems like a tragedy to not present yourself as funny. . You certainly can not be taken as serious or better.

. . . just kidding eh!

 

[Gurucam]

Acts 28:27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Acts 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

Bless your heart, if you are speaking about Rainee.

He does not believe that Jesus Spirit was regenerated. Therefore he will not believe that Jesus rose to heaven (to sit on the right side of God) in that regenerated Spirit, although Paul communed with Jesus and all Jesus had on was a Spirit body.

Rainee would not know that to be 'on the right side of God is to be present with God, only in one's spirit/intuitive body (like sheep). To be on the left side is to be in one's physical logical and intellectual body (like goats).

Indeed when the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed, every spiritual things pass clean over them, totally unnoticed. All they get are the dead and carnal things.

Would you believe that Rainee does not believe Paul in 1 Corinthians: 15 verse: 44 when he confirmed that Jesus' body was sown a natural body and raised a spiritual body.

Talking about a waxed gross heart!

Did some self reflection?

:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: to you for that appropriate verse.​

 

[rainee]

Hi Gurucam, I'm sorry I wasn't clear I had very little time earlier.

I said The Lord was not regenerated in His Spirit because His Spirit was probably never anything but Generating. See what I mean? To be resurrected from a physical death is different (to me.)

Don't be upset and sorry I told Heir what I did. At the time I thought I had to remember she had been doing a lot of writing and reading especially with you so it seemed reasonable she might have been brain tired.

I can only talk about this spiritual stuff myself for a sort time or I get a headache.

 

[heir]

If you are not unbelieving now how do you understand that statement anyway?

Israel fell and through their fall salvation came unto the Gentiles to provoke them to jealousy (Romans 11:11 KJV)/to emulation them which were Paul's flesh (out of apostate Israel), and might save some of them (Romans 11:14 KJV the "some of them" being the remnant according to the election of grace which God foreknew Romans 11:1-5 KJV). The Gentiles to whom salvation came at that time were in the commonwealth of Israel (blessers as per Genesis 12:3 KJV, check it Acts 13:26 KJV). This is why we see Paul going to the Jew first and also to the Greek throughout Paul's Acts ministry. People like you and me were not in the picture until Paul let the cat out of the bag that he would be sent far hence unto the Gentiles; that's the "you Gentiles" like that of the Ephesians who in time past (including up to the time of Acts 19 were Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV worshipping the goddess Diana.

 

[PhilipJames]

Hello heir,

First, I would like to apologize for the tone of my last post, being rushed for time is no excuse. Please forgive me.

You ignore what is there.
1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Context context context..

1 Tim 15-16

This saying is trustworthy and deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. Of these I am the foremost.

But for that reason I was mercifully treated, so that in me, as the foremost, Christ Jesus might display all his patience as an example for those who would come to believe in him for everlasting life.


The word translated 'foremost' here and as 'chief' and 'first' in the KJV is the same word. It is referring to the same thing... That Paul was the 'chief' or 'foremost' sinner... that is no one, could possibly be a worse sinner than he was!

Thus vs 16 is stating that no matter how bad, no matter how 'evil' one has been , if God can show mercy to Paul, they can ALSO receive mercy...

The Body is one, but there is more than one church in the Bible (FYI-there are three).

actually there are many 'local' churches but there is only one Church, the Body of Christ, the Kingdom of God, to which all the local churches belong.

1Col1 13-18 : (emphasis by me)

He delivered us from the power of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,

in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

For in him were created all things in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things were created through him and for him.

He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

He is the head of the body, the church. 9 He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things he himself might be preeminent.

Paul persecuted the church of God and wasted it (Galatians 1:13 KJV).

And then He joined it: Acts 9:17-18

All scripture is inspired by God (2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJV. I believe the pure and preserved words of the Lord is the KJB, yes (Psalms 12:6-7 KJV).

All scripture is indeed inspired by God, but the KJV is not a great translation, not least because its language in now antiquated and grows more so as English continues to morph the meanings of its words. You may want to reconsider it as your 'standard'.

Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

The only way for the Romans to continue in God's goodness would be for them to be stablished into the Body of Christ according to:

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Romans 16:27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

That is why Paul longed to see them:

Romans 1:11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;

Romans 1:12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.
...

I see, so you are hinging your whole fallacy that the Church that Christ built on Peter and the apostles (including Paul!) was to be 'cut down' and replaced on the word 'established' here in the KJV?

Again, context, context, context.
It is clear from the preceding verses that the Church in Rome was ALREADY established in Faith, in fact a faith that was 'heralded throughout the world.' Thus the translation that reads 'strengthened' here is a more appropriate rendering of the greek text.

There is no tree today, but a new creature (2 Corinthians 5:17 KJV), the church (with Christ the Head), which is His Body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all (Ephesians 1:22-23 KJV)

I'm sorry, I do not see how you can speak about the Body of Christ and somehow reject the fact that God saved HIS people (the remnant of Israel that believed) and grafted into THEM the gentiles who believed. That is clearly Paul's message about the cultivated and wild olive trees.

Believe what?

That Jesus Christ is the Messiah of Israel, The Son of God who suffered and died for us, and for our salvation, and rose again to new life. In HIM we have the hope of eternal life!

Here is how John puts it:

John 3:16 'For God so loved the world that he gave 7 his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life.'

Peace!
PJ

 

[PhilipJames]

Hello Nick,

No it doesn't. What is a "prototype"? What is a "pattern". You don't want to be on the record as perverting the gospel. So be honest with your answer.

Perverted? I think not. as I said to heir.. CONTEXT, CONTEXT CONTEXT ... the word translated 'first' in the KJV vs 16 is the same word translated as 'chief' in vs 15 and refers to the same thing!

Paul is saying that he was the chief (or worst) of sinners and that God showing mercy to him is an example for everyone. Thus no matter who you are , and how bad you have been, you too can receive mercy.

And as the Gospel says that salvation is now for ALL men, gentile or Jew, slave or free, rich or poor.... how exactly do you think that this perverts the Gospel?

The Angels proclaimed it at the birth of our Saviour: Peace on Earth, Goodwill to (all) men!



Peace!
PJ

 

[Lighthouse]

You quoted
1 Timothy 1:16 King James Version (KJV) - Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

However you do not have a clue as to the message in that revelation.

No doubt you will go forth and give your version. However rest assured that you will inevitably corrupt it as you have done with the privileged that is only for the Holy Ghost. (Remember you equate blasphemy of (flesh and blood) humans to blasphemy of the Holy Ghost a thing of Spirit). That was a very very serious mistake.

Again you are oblivious to your very erroneous practice.

It is not given for just any one to teach seekers of truth and Truth.

This is the message in that revelation (1 Timothy 1:16 King James Version):

That revelations is indeed linked to another one which you are quoting, frequently on this thread: Matthew 12:31 KJV - Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Paul was a man 'after the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth'. He was no longer a man after any thing physical. This means that Paul was no longer a man after Moses. Also he was not a man after Jesus in a physical body.

Paul was given by God to blaspheme any thing (except the Holy Ghost), including Moses, Moses' church and things delivered by Moses and he will not get sin. Peter was also given by God to blaspheme Jesus in His physical body (then he was the son of man), and he will not get sin. Paul was also given to blaspheme all the teachings and words which Jesus delivered when he was a man on earth, and he will not get sin. Paul was also given by God to blaspheme the church (i.e. Peter's church) which was anchored on the physically delivered teaching and words which Jesus delivered when He was in a physical body, and he will get no sin.

Paul was not given by God to deny and blaspheme the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth which is a Spirit and which he (and only he) discerned only spiritually. Also Paul was not given to deny and blaspheme the Holy Ghost which is also a Spirit and which he reached only through the Spirit of Jesus. Blasphemy of the Spirit of Jesus and blasphemy of the Holy Ghost are absolutely unforgivable sins for everyone.

In order to be saved and delivered you must know the above truth as a living thing and adapt it as your absolute Truth.

However in order for you or any other human to earn that privileged you must know the following and also make the passage which Paul made:

Paul said, 'I obtained mercy, that in me first . . . .'. The question that you should ask is: What did Paul get, in him first, that none of the others had got, up to that time.?

The answer is simple. Paul got the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth within him first. Paul was the first to commune with Jesus in His Spirit which is the Spirit of Truth. This was possible only after Jesus rose to heaven, in His Spirit body. Such communion is achieved only through a spirit to Spirit connection. (Spiritually things are discern only spiritually.) At that time, Paul was the first and only one to reach, be aware of and led by, that Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth which was within his own heart or spirit.

In fact, although the disciples got the first fruits of the Holy Spirit, there is no evidence that any of them or any of the others, got the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth, at all. And it is this Spirit (i.e. the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth) which granted Paul, mercy. Fact is, because Paul was led into all his works, by this Spirit (the Spirit of Jesus), he had God given freedom, liberty and justification to do any thing except blaspheme the Spirit of Jesus and the Holy Ghost, and he will get no sin, but instead be glorified by God.

Why do you oppose this effort to move traditional Christianity out of its absolutely corrupt moorings? Are you not tired of many being called to Christianity (in traditional Christianity) and the great majority (i.e. all but a few) erring because they are misled and not chosen? Don't you want this to stop?

Don't you want to have traditional Christianity purified in these last days so that those who come to it in these last days will get truth and Truth and not err and be chosen first? This is how the last will be first and the first last. You can be among the last who will be chosen first, if you empower and embrace the purification of traditional Christianity (by me, under Grace of God) in these last days.

:kook:

Hello Nick,

Perverted? I think not. as I said to heir.. CONTEXT, CONTEXT CONTEXT ... the word translated 'first' in the KJV vs 16 is the same word translated as 'chief' in vs 15 and refers to the same thing!

Paul is saying that he was the chief (or worst) of sinners and that God showing mercy to him is an example for everyone. Thus no matter who you are , and how bad you have been, you too can receive mercy.

And as the Gospel says that salvation is now for ALL men, gentile or Jew, slave or free, rich or poor.... how exactly do you think that this perverts the Gospel?

The Angels proclaimed it at the birth of our Saviour: Peace on Earth, Goodwill to (all) men!

Peace!
PJ

How do you not see that you just proved yourself wrong?

If it is the same word in the same context then it means the same thing, both times. And it clearly does not mean 'chief' in the second instance; it must mean 'first' in that instance. And as the second instance relates to the first instance then it must, logically, also then mean 'first' in the first instance as well.

 

[PhilipJames]

Hello lighthouse,

:kook:


How do you not see that you just proved yourself wrong?

If it is the same word in the same context then it means the same thing, both times. And it clearly does not mean 'chief' in the second instance; it must mean 'first' in that instance. And as the second instance relates to the first instance then it must, logically, also then mean 'first' in the first instance as well.

You've got the backwards, if it means chief (of the sinners) in vs 15 it also means chief (of the sinners) in vs 16

(Ugh this is why I dislike the KJV, the translation and wording is terrible)

Peace!
PJ

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Hi GM, and yet neither of those are the one baptism by one Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV). Those who wish to put water baptism on us as for today would like us to unify with them in their religious tradition according to their SoF, and endevour to not keep that which Paul besseches us to: the unity of the Spirit (Ephesians 4:1-6 KJV). We cannot walk worthy of the vocation wherewith we are called if we're getting wet and telling others to.

Amen!