unfinished business

jamie

jamie

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heir said:
1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

1 Corinthians 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Anyone, anywhere can be saved by what Paul declared above. Get saved by trusting the Lord believing IT!

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
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You can speak all the words you want, make all the demands and pleas you care to, do works until you faint, and when it's all said and done salvation is by grace through faith. Paul's words were instructive but Paul never saved a soul. There's only one name given and it's not Paul.
 
Nihilo

Nihilo

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john w said:
That says NADA re. the dbr.
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I know. That was before.
john w said:
Peter, twice, attempted to prevent the Master's death, the very death that would reconcile Him, and a "pre-req" to justification.
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I know. The Lord began to teach them 1st Corinthians 15:3-4 (KJV), just as soon as Peter confessed Him as the Christ (Matthew 16:21 KJV, Matthew 17:22-23 KJV, Matthew 20:18-19 KJV).
 
john w

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Nihilo said:
I know. That was before.
I know. The Lord began to teach them 1st Corinthians 15:3-4 (KJV), just as soon as Peter confessed Him as the Christ (Matthew 16:21 KJV, Matthew 17:22-23 KJV, Matthew 20:18-19 KJV).
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You missed it. Pay attention, to the set forth "argument,"of fraud Epoisses:


"Why is it that no one can explain how people are saved under the 'kingdom gospel'?'-satan follower Epoisses's "argument"


And I did, and have, for years, on TOL, showing that the content of faith, in Mt.-John, at least prior to the dbr, had no reference to the dbr, the foundation of the good news we are to preach today-1 the good news/gospel of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV.

Vs.:

You:"Seems like Peter was
Matthew 16:15 (KJV)
Matthew 16:16 (KJV)
Matthew 16:17 (KJV) "


satans' follower Epoisses asserts "one piece of good news." Peter attempted to prevent the Lord's death, the basis of Peter's reconciliation, part of the foundation of the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV....

Death
Burial
Resurrection


And yet, Peter, and the gang of 11, including Judas, preached the gospel/good news of the kingdom, for nearly 3 years. The conclusion, if you are sane?:

The gospel/good news of the kingdom, is not equivalent, to the gospel/good news of 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, and thus, this "one gospel/one piece of good news" "arguments," of satan's follower/yours, is made up.

A 6 year old can see this...Most alleged members of the boc cannot, as they do not study/survey the details of the book, but instead memorize/study what their "the" "church" SOF says.
 
Nihilo

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john w said:
You missed it. Pay attention, to the set forth "argument,:"


"Why is it that no one can explain how people are saved under the 'kingdom gospel'?'-satan follower's "argument"

You:"Seems like Peter was
Matthew 16:15 (KJV)
Matthew 16:16 (KJV)
Matthew 16:17 (KJV) "


satans' follower asserts "one piece of good news." Peter attempted to prevent the Lord's death, the basis of his reconciliation, part of the foundation of the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV....

Death
Burial
Resurrection


And yet, Peter, and the gang of 11, including Judas, preached the gospel/good news of the kingdom, for nearly 3 years. The conclusion, if you are sane?:
The gospel/good news of the kingdom, is not equivalent, to the gospel/good news of 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, and thus, this "one gospel/one piece of good news" "arguments," of satan's follower/yours, is made up.

A 6 year old can see this...Most alleged members of the boc cannot, as they do not study/survey the details of the book, but instead memorize/study what their "the" "church" SOF says.
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It's very interesting to me that it wasn't until Peter confessed the Lord as the Christ, that He began to teach His disciples about 1st Corinthians 15:3-4 (KJV) (Matthew 16:21 KJV, Matthew 17:22-23 KJV, Matthew 20:18-19 KJV). Why did He wait for Peter to say Matthew 16:16 (KJV), before revealing 1st Corinthians 15:3-4 (KJV)?

Something changed at Matthew 16:16 (KJV).
 
john w

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Nihilo said:
It's very interesting to me that it wasn't until Peter confessed the Lord as the Christ, that He began to teach His disciples about 1st Corinthians 15:3-4 (KJV) (Matthew 16:21 KJV, Matthew 17:22-23 KJV, Matthew 20:18-19 KJV). Why did He wait for Peter to say Matthew 16:16 (KJV), before revealing 1st Corinthians 15:3-4 (KJV)?

Something changed at Matthew 16:16 (KJV).
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Filler...misdirection..... Quite off the argument.

Sit.
 
Nihilo

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musterion said:
None of that was given or taken as good news.
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Well that's interesting also. Was that the change, from the Eleven to Paul? That this was "bad news" (cf. Mt17:22-23KJV), until Paul revealed that it was actually "good news?" :think:
 
musterion

musterion

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Nihilo said:
Well that's interesting also.
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Not just interesting -- truth.

Paul said the DBR of Christ is the best news possible for all mankind.

You (and most of TOL) say the 12 believed and preached the EXACT SAME GOOD NEWS that Paul did...that there is only "one Good News" or "only one Gospel."

Yet they were "exceeding sorry" when they heard Christ was going to die.

They simply did not know what was later revealed to Paul. They DID come to know of it from him, but at that time they knew nothing of it.

So...they did not know nor preach Paul's gospel. They had an earlier one with a different purpose and audience.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Nihilo said:
It's very interesting to me that it wasn't until Peter confessed the Lord as the Christ, that He began to teach His disciples about 1st Corinthians 15:3-4 (KJV) (Matthew 16:21 KJV, Matthew 17:22-23 KJV, Matthew 20:18-19 KJV). Why did He wait for Peter to say Matthew 16:16 (KJV), before revealing 1st Corinthians 15:3-4 (KJV)?

Something changed at Matthew 16:16 (KJV).
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I would like to build on Nihilo's point by adding: Christ must have been teaching (off-stage) that he was the Christ and would sacrifice in order for Peter to say this. He had already been declared to be the Lamb of God that takes away sins, and several other similar things, so what Christ was doing was nipping the tendency of the masses to think that THAT message was not actually the case. He had to start with his disciples. It is one thing to hear it and another to realize that it is going to be culturally subversive to believe it.

If Nihilo thought everything up to this point was another kind of Gospel, I think he should look at it again. Look at the first emphatic cross-proven miracle of Mk 2:1-5. The tangible miracle was done so that...the authority to forgive sins would be realized. Now, really, why would he save the first miracle of that kind for that kind of demonstration?
 
musterion

musterion

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Matthew 16:21-22 alone proves the good news preached by the 12 was not the good news of the DBR preached by Paul. Not only were they "exceedingly sad" to hear of it, Peter intended to put a stop to it.

Odd reaction, that, if Peter really did preach the good news Paul preached before Paul did.
 
Nihilo

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I subscribe to that there's "head" knowledge, and "heart" knowledge. Head knowledge is what we read from books, or the words someone speaks, but not all they pour into those words. The Lord taught His dbr, and so He preached Paul's gospel. Almost literally not another soul understood Him, and none of His Apostles-elect were any exception, and the Gospels don't hide this. They didn't receive the news as good news, but as horrible news. They tried to rescue the Lord from this purpose; understandably, I think we can all agree. As is said, they did not know what Paul knew, later on. But it's also true to say that they did not know what they themselves would know later on either (excepting Judas). And after the Church council in Acts 15, any dispute between the Apostles vanished, so while there were still those of the circumcision around causing trouble, there's no faithful way to think that the Eleven didn't all agree upon and understand and preach Paul's gospel, to whichever audience they went, after Acts 15.
 
musterion

musterion

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Nihilo said:
The Lord taught His dbr, and so He preached Paul's gospel.
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No.

He never once said that He'd be taking the sins of all upon Himself, as good news by which to forgive and justify Jew and Gentile alike and without distinction. You are back-reading that into the Gospel from what Paul later received from Him. It violates context and does violence to Scripture.
 
Nihilo

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musterion said:
No.

He never once said that He'd be taking the sins of all upon Himself, as good news by which to forgive and justify Jew and Gentile alike and without distinction. You are back-reading that into the Gospel from what Paul later received from Him. It violates context and does violence to Scripture.
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But what you're doing is like the pope asking, "What hat?" I understand what you mean, it's just that we all know how it wound up, and that was with Paul's gospel, so of course, that's what the Lord was preaching from the start. That's just faith, and not even a mustard seed's worth. You're introducing drama where there is none.
 
musterion

musterion

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Nihilo said:
But what you're doing is like the pope asking, "What hat?" I understand what you mean, it's just that we all know how it wound up, and that was with Paul's gospel, so of course, that's what the Lord was preaching from the start. That's just faith, and not even a mustard seed's worth. You're introducing drama where there is none.
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So let's get this straight.

The Twelve, with the power of the Holy Spirit upon them even unto knowing the very hearts of others and seeing them struck dead for lies, were still SO DENSE that they did not realize that Christ had come for the sins and justification of the whole world, Jew and Gentile without distinction (since they never preached ANY of that)...to the point where Peter really did not want to go see a Gentile even after God told him to go, and once he arrived wasn't sure why he'd been sent...

...and yet Paul's gospel is the Good News that the 12 preached?

Is that what you believe?
 
Nihilo

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musterion said:
So let's get this straight.

The Twelve, with the power of the Holy Spirit upon them even unto knowing the very hearts of others and seeing them struck dead for lies, were still SO DENSE that they did not realize that Christ had come for the sins and justification of the whole world, Jew and Gentile without distinction (since they never preached ANY of that)...to the point where Peter really did not want to go see a Gentile even after God told him to go, and once he arrived wasn't sure why he'd been sent...

...and yet Paul's gospel is the Good News that the 12 preached?

Is that what you believe?
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No. I'm talking about what the Lord Himself preached. His dbr. But only after Peter confessed Him as the Christ, and then commanded that none of them utter a word of it to anybody, only then did He preach His dbr. We already know Matthew 1:21 (KJV), it's just a question as to how, and the Lord waits until after Matthew 16:16 (KJV) to fill in that blank. Why? That's very interesting to me.
 
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