Trump sends Cruise Missles Into Syria

jeffblue101

New member
The Trump people, after Stephen Bannon was removed from the National Security Council, moved too quickly to strike Syria, seemingly refusing to consider that the chemical attack in 2017, like the one in 2013, was a false flag event.

according to the Syrian counter argument a false flag operation is effectively ruled out.
But the denial, as well as a Russian assertion that a bomb hit a chemical weapons depot controlled by the rebels, seemed perfunctory, almost without regard to the facts, which Western governments said pointed to a Syrian government hand.

Either this was likely a chemical attack with Sarin gas by the Syrians or an air raid bombing hit a secret Sarin depot controlled by rebels, but a false flag operation it can't be given the arguments given by both sides.
 

jeffblue101

New member
more info on why it can't be an air raid bomb hitting a Sarin debot controlled by rebels.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...cal-weapons-attack-what-we-know-khan-sheikhun
Russia has denied that Syria launched a chemical weapons attack. Does their argument have any credibility?
Syria’s military has “categorically denied” responsibility for the attack. Russia, which is heavily backing the Assad government, said a Syrian government airstrike had hit a “terrorist warehouse” holding “toxic substances”.

That claim does not fit with facts on the ground, for several reasons. An airstrike on a weapons depot with high explosives would have destroyed much of the sarin immediately, and distributed any that survived over a much smaller area.

“The pattern of casualties isn’t right for the distribution of materials that you would get if you had a location with toxic materials breached by an airstrike. It’s more consistent with canisters that have distributed [chemical weapons] over a wider population,” Guthrie said.

While it is impossible to assess the exact amount of chemical agent used immediately, the extent and distribution of the casualties are consistent with the use of hundreds of kilos.

Sarin is too complicated and expensive for rebels to have manufactured themselves, and while they might potentially have obtained some supplies of stolen nerve agents or other gas, it is very unlikely to be more than a few kilos.

“If they have [sarin], it would be in minute quantities, maybe a kilo or so,” said De Bretton Gordon. The high numbers of woman and children among the casualties was not consistent with a military depot, he added.

Finally, the Syrian manufacturing process for sarin involves creating and storing two key components, both far more stable than the nerve agent itself. They are mixed to create sarin hours – or at most days – before it is used, said Dan Kaszeta, a chemical weapons expert and former officer in the US Army’s chemical corps.

So an airstrike on a storage facility would be unlikely to release sarin itself. And because one of the two components is highly flammable isopropyl alcohol, or rubbing alcohol, you would expect a fireball, which has not been observed.
 

jeffblue101

New member
found a much more detailed rebuttal to the Syrian and Russian counter argument.
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/men...n-sheikhoun-chemical-warehouse-attack-claims/
From a technical chemical weapons perspective, it seems unlikely that the Russian “warehouse/depot” narrative is plausible as the source of the chemical exposure seen on April 4th. To date, all of the nerve agents used in the Syrian conflict have been binary chemical warfare agents, so-named because they are mixed from several different components within a few days of use. For example, binary Sarin is made by combining isopropyl alcohol with methylphosphonyl difluoride, usually with some kind of additive to deal with the residual acid produced. The nerve agent Soman can also be produced through a binary process. The nerve agent VX has a similar binary process, although it proved to be a more complicated process than merely mixing the materials.

There are several reasons why the Assad regime would use binary nerve agents. Binary nerve agents were developed by the US military in order to improve safety of storage and handling, so that the logistical chain would not have to actually handle nerve agents. The US had developed some weapon systems that mixed the materials in flight after firing. These particular weapon systems were the M687 155mm binary Sarin artillery shell, the XM736 8 inch binary VX artillery shell, and the Bigeye binary VX air-dropped bomb. All were the product of lengthy research and development efforts, and none of them worked terribly well in practice, particulary the VX weapons. There is no evidence that the Assad regime has ever made or fielded “mix-in-flight” binary weapons. OPCW inspections after Syria’s accession to the CWC in 2013 revealed a variety of fixed and mobile mixing apparatus for making binary nerve agents.

The other key reason for binary Sarin is that only a few countries really ever cracked the technology for making “unitary” Sarin that had any kind of useful shelf-life. The main chemical reaction that produces Sarin creates 1 molecule of hydrogen fluoride (HF), a potent and dangerous acid, for every molecule of Sarin. This residual HF destroys nearly anything the Sarin is stored in, and quickly degrades the Sarin. The US and USSR had devoted a huge effort to finding a way out of this problem. They found different ways to refine the HF out of the Sarin using very expensive heavy chemical engineering techniques which, for obvious reasons, are best not described here. Syria either did not develop such techniques or decided it was far cheaper, safer, and easier to stockpile binary components for a “mix it as you need it” process. Hence the “mobile mixing equipment” found by the OPCW. Nor did Saddam Hussein’s Iraq, which had huge problems with the short shelf life of its Sarin.

Even assuming that large quantities of both Sarin precursors were located in the same part of the same warehouse (a practice that seems odd), an air-strike is not going to cause the production of large quantities of Sarin. Dropping a bomb on the binary components does not actually provide the correct mechanism for making the nerve agent. It is an infantile argument. One of the precursors is isopropyl alcohol. It would go up in a ball of flame. A very large one. Which has not been in evidence.

Another issue is that, if the Syrian regime actually did believe that the warehouse stored chemical warfare agents, then striking it deliberately was an act of chemical warfare by proxy.

Finally, we are back to the issue of industrial capacity. It takes about 9 kg of difficult to obtain precursor materials to generate the necessary steps to produce Sarin. The ratio is similar with other nerve agents. Having a quantity of any of the nerve agents relies on a sophisticated supply chain of exotic precursors and an industrial base. Are we to seriously believe that one of the rebel factions has expended the vast sums of money and developed this industrial base, somehow not noticed to date and not molested by attack? It seems an unlikely chain of events.
 

drbrumley

Well-known member
Dogmas of our day:
-The Russians hacked the election
-Assad dropped poison gas on children
-Bombing brings peace
-Evidence shmevidence!
 

drbrumley

Well-known member
Syrian head-choppers applaud Trump attack on Syria, along with the US commentariat, Hillary Clinton, and John McCain.
 

drbrumley

Well-known member

The airfield that was bombed is said to be the site of Assad’s store of sarin gas. Yet you’ll remember that Syria was supposed to have surrendered the entirety of its chemical weapons, and this was certified by the United Nations, the Russians, and the Obama administration. So what chemical weapons are we talking about? Stay tuned for the next act in this drama, as demands for the inspection of this site are raised. What happens if – or when – the inspectors are let in and there’s nothing to be found?



:think:
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
:mock: people that think Hillary supported the action.
 

drbrumley

Well-known member
Remember the phony story about Saddam Hussein killing incubator babies? The Syrian rebels tried that one, too
 

kmoney

New member
Hall of Fame
Have a nice war!!!
Jack Perry


Here we go again…and again…and again… Excuse me, but are people “more” dead if they’re killed by chemical weapons, as opposed to incinerated by napalm or disemboweled by shrapnel? It’s almost like as long as*a government kills people with the proper weapons, it’s all good. But use the wrong one, and here comes the world saying how unfair it is. Again, excuse me, but has anyone happened across the common denominator in the use of military weapons, be they conventional or NBC? That would be: Government. See, only a government or someone aspiring to be one has those kinds of weapons.
The average civilian hasn’t got these weapons on the scale a government has them and uses them. Therefore, it would appear to me that if Government A*says they’re going to stop Government B from using certain weapons, it means Government A will use its own weapons to do so. Resulting in Civilians C, D, and E dying on an unprecedented scale. But dying properly from proper weapons, for which those civilians should be grateful. The United States, for example, can claim it now has the pretext to use its nuclear weapons because it says*Assad used a chemical weapon. That’s how the protocol goes for U.S. nuclear policy. That if another nation uses an NBC weapon, the U.S. can retaliate in kind since the other nation crossed the Rubicon of “first use”. Even though using a nuclear weapon to retaliate for a gas attack is like using a 10 pound sledgehammer to pound in a small brad tack. But everyone will be incinerated legally, and not illegally gassed.
Whatever. The fact remains that we were lied into the Gulf War in 1990 by lurid stories about Iraqi atrocities cooked up by U.S. advertising agencies hired by the Pentagon. And we were lied into Gulf War Part Two: The Iraq-ining of Democracy because we were told the McHitler Of The Month, Saddam Hussein, had NBC weapons and was building more. And Americans fall for this every time. My gosh, they might as well say that Nazis time-travelled from World War Two and caused this attack. Americans would believe that, too. “We must put a stop to Time Machines of Mass Destruction!”
The United States keeps making the same blunder, over and over again. So, what do I think? I think people really are this stupid. The U.S. government has cried wolf about NBC weapons too many times for this one to be believed. But people believe it anyway! Fascinating! People really are this gullible! But a trip to any supermarket proves that, when you see the crap people will put into their bodies. And if they’ll put that junk into their bodies, they’ll put the equivalent of it into their minds from the government. Have a nice war!



Wow dude, tell em how you really feel...

It is an interesting dynamic. One that I heard from someone else today, I forget who. The type of weapon used is what determines a red line. Why is the red line not killing civilians with any weapon? :idunno:

Assuming Assad really was behind this, part of me wonders if it was a test to see how the new Trump administration would react. Testing the waters.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
It is an interesting dynamic. One that I heard from someone else today, I forget who. The type of weapon used is what determines a red line. Why is the red line not killing civilians with any weapon? :idunno:

Assuming Assad really was behind this, part of me wonders if it was a test to see how the new Trump administration would react. Testing the waters.

who was trump meeting with yesterday and today?
 
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