True science and true religion agree together.

[iouae]

I had written "Why do we have hands, because God has hands." to which you responded...

Yikes!

I have been wasting my time trying to take you seriously.

AMR

I suppose that Christ sitting at the right hand of the Father is too simple for you to understand.

 

[iouae]

Fossils are organized, roughly speaking, by size, not age.


Clete

Not at all. So hydrological sorting cannot explain fossils in layers.

Fossils are arranged ecosystem by ecosystem, with big AND small fossils together from THAT geological age/ecosystem.

The older light is, the more red-shifted it is because as the universe expands over time, so light is stretched slightly into the red wavelength or longer wavelength.
But thinking that the slight red shift of the universe affects the fact that light is very old, is actually to ignore FURTHER PROOF that light IS very old.

If you are not prepared to face the fossils, or the age of light, then (you will have to excuse me being blunt) you are willingly ignorant, since all you have to do is read a modern textbook.

Philosophy is all nice and fluffy, but facts keep us grounded.

 

[iouae]

This would suggest he is more a :dunce: than a :troll: Yep!

Are you AMR's pilot fish?

 

[Ktoyou]

Are you AMR's pilot fish?

Good guess

 

[iouae]

Good guess

Well Pilot Fish, do you have any original thoughts of your own on this topic?

 

[Ktoyou]

Well Pilot Fish, do you have any original thoughts of your own on this topic?

Yes, I do. I believe you are a moron.

 

[iouae]

Yes, I do. I believe you are a moron.

You have already called me a dunce, so the above is not an original thought.

So, nothing??

 

[Ktoyou]

You have already called me a dunce, so the above is not an original thought.

So, nothing??

:wazzup:
Anyone who is so dumb to think of God in anthropomorphic terms is jut too much of a :dunce: to take seriously. Seems AMR figured that out and went 'yikes' and I bet he is gone now. With Clete you do not understand what he is talking about and do not care to know want he is talking about.

:listen:I seen you coming, believe me, or ask other members. I seem to know after a few posts who is a real cuckoo bird.

 

[iouae]

:wazzup:
Anyone who is so dumb to think of God in anthropomorphic terms is jut too much of a :dunce: to take seriously.

So Pilot Fish, when God tells us to call Him "Father" which is an anthropomorphic term,you would be calling Him a dunce too?

 

[iouae]

God created us "in his image, after His likeness".
So God is like us.
The Son is the image of the Father, and the Son came to earth to reveal the Father. Looking at the Son, we know that the Father is like us too.
Then, in the transfiguration, Christ looks like us, but glowing.
In Ezek chapters 1-2, 10 and Rev, when we are taken to heaven, we see the Father sitting on a throne, surrounded by light. But still He is like us, sitting like us, with a right hand, like us, and Christ sitting to His right, looking like us.

So God is not hard to understand, unless one goes to seminaries and theological colleges where they make everything simple, complicated.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

So God is not hard to understand, unless one goes to seminaries and theological colleges where they make everything simple, complicated.

For the benefit of those actually open to correction I will answer this while relying upon you as my foil...

I see. Seminaries bad. Sitting alone, "Just Me and My Bible" good. One wonders why you hold the Holy Spirit's illumination in you so much higher than the same Holy Spirit that dwells within others, especially those that have come before us. Rather, it is the last clause of a man's creed that belies its true spirit. He speaks authoritatively that no man should allow other men to speak authoritatively about Scripture. Sigh.

Instead if you held the opinions of others equally indwelled by the Holy Spirit you would understand the Scripture-based denunciations of Chalcedon on the matter of just exactly Who Jesus Christ is. He is the God-man, a Person possessing fully divine, fully human natures. That human nature of His possesses a glorified human body now, just as all believers will possess when we come into our glory at the eschaton. Does that make us God? No. The divinity of Our Lord has not changed because of the Incarnation. God still is omnipresent, just as God the Son was when walking about Israel, His divinity not confined to geography, and most certainly not present everywhere with hands and feet as He upheld the universe.

One need not be a seminarian to understand these things, but do not begrudge a man who happens to be seminary trained, nor our God Who gifts all according to their own capacities to instruct you that Jesus is glorified now, body and soul (1 Timothy 3:16). Jesus in His divine nature is omnipresent. Jesus in His human nature is in one place at one time. So Our Lord can say that He is with us to the end of the world, Matthew 28:18-20; and yet the heaven must receive Him until the times of restitution of all things, Acts 3:21.

Scripture teaches us that Christ continues forever to be united with our human nature. As a Man, He is still just like you or me, praise the Lord. He is still and forever theanthropos, the God-Man. Acts 3:21 teaches us that Christ is physically separated from us (as His bodily Ascension proved, and the angels' words afterward, Act.1:11) for "the heaven must receive [him] until the times of restoration of all things." As Hebrews explains so fully, He is the Mediator in the heavenly Temple, bearing our nature and His blood of it, before his Father. He is seated at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. He had the same body when He rose again that He had when He was laid in the tomb (albeit more glorified afterward). And we are promised to be "like him" in his resurrection. Unless your unsupported allegation is that we too will be unbounded by time or space in our resurrection bodies, then despite new abilities suitable to glorified bodies, physical locality is unavoidable. Locality certainly seems in Scripture to have been (and continue to be) the case with Jesus' resurrection life.

The Second Person of the Trinity still and forever does for us all that we need Him for, according to the properties of each of His indefectible and immutable natures. Christ's divinity—omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent—assures us that He will never be unable perfectly to assist us, and better than we can ask. Christ's humanity does not limit Him as a Person, but suits Him in heaven to remain for us a merciful and faithful high priest, until He brings us together forever to the glory of the Father. Meanwhile, Christ is not at all separate from us, but stays with us through the ministry of Holy Spirit, indeed closer than He was when He walked side by side with His disciples through this world.

One more time, summarizing, just to make sure you understand these things. Jesus Christ's body, since it is a human body, must have a particular location (human bodies always do) and for that reason cannot be ubiquitous. Which is to say that body was not everywhere; nor could it be so, yet remain human and localized, an essential quality of the human nature. The instrument of the Word's flesh was for the working of our redemption, while it did not confine God the Son according to His divine nature. He moved His body, while He also directed the movement of the whole universe. God the Son was present in his body, but also omnipresent.

Thus endeth the lesson. Amen.

AMR

 

[Ktoyou]

So Pilot Fish, when God tells us to call Him "Father" which is an anthropomorphic term,you would be calling Him a dunce too?

Your theme song?

 

[iouae]

God still is omnipresent, just as God the Son was when walking about Israel,..

Thus endeth the lesson. Amen.

AMR

Gen 18:20-21
And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
21
I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

If God were omnipresent, He would not have to go down to Sodom and check it out. He would already be everywhere, including being in Sodom.
If God were omniscient, He would ALREADY know, not say "I WILL know".
And if God does not already know, then there is no predestination.

Three sacred cows slaughtered by two verses.

 

[iouae]

Your theme song?

I can see that speaking to you is like speaking to a pilot fish.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

It's clocks all the way down, watchman.

The aging process, is just another form of clock.


No, clocks are intrinsically linked to space and matter - whatever that means.

Time is an idea - not a thing. Time is a convention of language that is used to communicate information about the duration and sequence of events. It doesn't not exist ontologically. Ideas are not effected by gravity fields.

This specific debate can be found and continued here.

You should, at the very least, read the opening post of that thread before going any further down this road. If you want to understand what a biblical worldview looks like in relation to the nature of time, that post is it.

Resting in Him,
Clete

I did read it, I'm not like most here who do not look at links, and I answered it too.

Time is an essential or natural part of the fabric of space. That why clocks run differently in that experiment and why we age at different rates too. If time was just an idea this wouldn't happen and it wouldn't be possible for God to exist outside of time.

 

[chair]

You think Jesus was mistaken - that says it all.

Now I understand all your insulting comments on that calendar thread. Read the following carefully:
I am not Christian. I am an obeservant Jew.

So:
1. I don't have any problem in saying that Jesus was mistaken - or to be more precise, what is reported that Jesus said is mistaken.
2. This is why I have known the details of the Hebrew calendar since I was a child. Since you didn't know I was Jewish, I will gladly accept you apology on that one.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Gen 18:20-21
And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
21
I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

If God were omnipresent, He would not have to go down to Sodom and check it out. He would already be everywhere, including being in Sodom.
If God were omniscient, He would ALREADY know, not say "I WILL know".
And if God does not already know, then there is no predestination.

Three sacred cows slaughtered by two verses.

As long as you are wandering about thinking God has hands and feet it is no wonder you adopt Marcion's incompetent God of the Old Testament who, in Gen 3:9, really did not know where Adam was; who, in Gen 18:21, really had to “go down” to Sodom to find out for Himself what went on there. Apparently God is not even omnipresent in your odd views for He is some sort of Mormon humanoid being. For that matter, even the casual open theist will admit God knows what is going on at present, so apparently you go further to declare God ignorant of what is happening at the moment, instead basing what He knows on some reports, and has to go investigate for Himself.

When such passages of Scripture seem to attribute ignorance to God, these refer, not to God’s actual knowledge, but to His use of that knowledge and the relation of that knowledge to His will and justice. God thus expresses himself,
1) in order to display His justice that He might not appear hurried on to vengeance by a blind fury;
2) to set forth His longsuffering, whereby God is not in haste to punish, though provoked by the obstinate wickedness of man; and
3) to set an example to magistrates in the administration of justice

That is my last lesson to you. You avoided dealing with the substance of my previous corrections. I can understand why that is. As I have demonstrated, you have very little understanding of these weighty matters, especially Hebraisms within Scripture, hence you are given over to all manner of heresy. Write less, study more. You are embarrassing yourself mightily.

AMR

 

[iouae]

As long as you are wandering about thinking God has hands and feet it is no wonder you adopt Marcion's incompetent God of the Old Testament who, in Gen 3:9, really did not know where Adam was; who, in Gen 18:21, really had to “go down” to Sodom to find out for Himself what went on there. Apparently God is not even omnipresent in your odd views for He is some sort of Mormon humanoid being. For that matter, even the casual open theist will admit God knows what is going on at present, so apparently you go further to declare God ignorant of what is happening at the moment, instead basing what He knows on some reports, and has to go investigate for Himself.

When such passages of Scripture seem to attribute ignorance to God, these refer, not to God’s actual knowledge, but to His use of that knowledge and the relation of that knowledge to His will and justice. God thus expresses himself,
1) in order to display His justice that He might not appear hurried on to vengeance by a blind fury;
2) to set forth His longsuffering, whereby God is not in haste to punish, though provoked by the obstinate wickedness of man; and
3) to set an example to magistrates in the administration of justice

That is my last lesson to you. You avoided dealing with the substance of my previous corrections. I can understand why that is. As I have demonstrated, you have very little understanding of these weighty matters, especially Hebraisms within Scripture, hence you are given over to all manner of heresy. Write less, study more. You are embarrassing yourself mightily.

AMR

Well thanks for the robust discussion anyhow AMR.

I feel that all you are doing is trying to explain away plain scriptures.
God says this but you say He really means that. Or God says this but you say it was idiom for the exact opposite.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Now I understand all your insulting comments on that calendar thread. Read the following carefully:
I am not Christian. I am an obeservant Jew.

So:
1. I don't have any problem in saying that Jesus was mistaken - or to be more precise, what is reported that Jesus said is mistaken.
2. This is why I have known the details of the Hebrew calendar since I was a child. Since you didn't know I was Jewish, I will gladly accept you apology on that one.

Well that makes more sense but the insults are to do with you insecurities, if you had Jesus in your life you would be more secure. I hope you will be thanking me shortly for helping to save your soul from Hell. So let's deal with your real and only issue, what do you make of Isaiah 53:

Isaiah 53
1 Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? 2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. 3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem. 4 Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed. 6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. 8 By oppression and judgement he was taken away. Yet who of his generation protested? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was punished.b 9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand. 11 After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied ; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,g and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

 

[chair]

Well that makes more sense but the insults are to do with you insecurities, if you had Jesus in your life you would be more secure. I hope you will be thanking me shortly for helping to save your soul from Hell. So let's deal with your real and only issue, what do you make of Isaiah 53:

Isaiah 53
...

Sorry, I've done this many times before. With people who know how to have a discussion without constantly implying that the other guy is not so smart, or has insecurities, or whatever. Not to mention that this is way off topic.

If you want to convince me that I should become a Christian- start another thread. But you better have some better arguments than what I've seen so far.