True science and true religion agree together.

[iouae]

On the contrary. I've loved science my entire life. I majored in physics for a while (don't have a degree) and have recently spent well over $1000 on a telescope that I use on a regular basis.

Clete

When one looks at the night sky, every star one sees is closer than 6000 light years.
I have never seen with my own eyes, light older than 6000 years since I don't have a telescope.
But I have seen the photos Hubble took. And Hubble just kept looking further and further back in time at more and more distant galaxies. It was capturing photons which had been released billions of years ago.

Explain to me how you can look at distant star clusters and explain away the distance and hence time it took for light to get here. You claim to know science. There is no glass ceiling or barrier which exists at exactly 6000 light years from here. The universe is seamless and seemingly uniform. You know the speed of light is a constant. So how did light from so far get here so soon?

 

[iouae]

... there is no good reason, scientific or biblical, to accept the notion of "geological ages" ...
Clete

Clete, you know that the strata are laid down so that groups of organisms such as dinosaurs and their friends are together. Its like each stratum has its own clique of organisms. The dinosaurs and the seas during the dinosaurs were filled with reptiles. The Mesozoic clique of dinosaurs, for instance, never hangs out with the Palaeozoic clique of Trilobites. Likewise Manny the wooly mammoth and Diego the sabre toothed tiger never mix with T. rex or Triceratops.

This cannot be explained away, except to say they were fossilised at different times.

The fact that Palaeontologists choose to label these cliques of animals as geological ages, is just a shorthand way of discussing the earth's past.

If a whole collection of these strange, ancient animals are found buried together, all around the globe, science wants an explanation. How do you account for this lack of mixing of fossils in strata?

 

[iouae]

No more so than what you do accept. It still boils down to you having accepted THEIR premise. The Earth very simply is NOT millions or billions of years old and there is plenty of scientific evidence that proves it. The only reason to accept an ancient earth/cosmos is to make time for evolutionary and uniformitarian cosmologies. You cannot accept one without rejecting the other. It isn't the details that are the problem, it's the premises.

I accept that you believe this but I'm telling you that biblical cosmology is not rationally compatible with the idea that the universe is billions of years old. There is no way to get there without making the bible say something it doesn't say, or more correctly, making it not say something that it clearly does.

Clete

It seems the only science which has you worried is the science which dates the universe.
It is only in connection with this that you issue so many warnings about paradigm blindness.

So let's face your fear straight on.

You are going to explain old light.
Then you are going to explain how fossils sorted into strata.
Then, hopefully, you will accept that it was logical and spatially impossible for all the billions of organisms to have occupied the same niche (earth) at the same time.
Then you are going to do the scientific thing of accepting as a working hypothesis that Gen 1:2 just might be translated "And the earth BECAME without form and void".
Then you will reexamine fossil record and see that many times in the past, earth "became without form and void, and darkness covered the deep" such as the time of the mass extinction when a comet ploughed into earth wiping out the dinosaurs.
Then you will be pronounced cured of earth-might-be-old-phobia.

 

[iouae]

HOW GENESIS 1 DESCRIBES A RECREATION AFTER A MASS EXTINCTION
I AM TYPING IN CAPS TO DIFFERENTIATE WHAT I AM WRITING FROM SCRIPTURE

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

WHENEVER THAT WAS

Gen 1:2
And the earth was (BECAME) without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

DUE TO A MASS EXTINCTION.

And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

NOTICE, THE PERSPECTIVE IS THE SURFACE OF THE WATERS OR SURFACE OF THE EARTH.

Gen 1:3
¶
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

GOD HAS CLEARED THE ATMOSPHERE AS SEEN FROM EARTH'S SURFACE SO THAT LIGHT FROM THE SUN BEGINS TO PENETRATE THE NUCLEAR-WINTER LIKE ATMOSPHERE OF EARTH.

Gen 1:4
And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Gen 1:5
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night.

NOW, ONE CAN NOTICE WHEN ITS DAY, AND NIGHT AS SEEN FROM THE SURFACE OF EARTH WHERE GOD'S SPIRIT IS MOVING. And the evening and the morning were the first day. NOW ONE CAN TELL ITS THE FIRST DAY AND NIGHT.

Gen 1:6
¶
And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

GOD CAUSES THE WATER TO DIVIDE INTO WATER VAPOUR (CLOUDS ABOVE) FROM THE LIQUID WATER IN THE SEAS BELOW. THIS LEAVES AN AREA OF CLEAR SKY SEPARATING THE THICK CLOUDS ABOVE FROM THE OCEANS BELOW.

Gen 1:7
And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
Gen 1:8
And God called the firmament Heaven. THE CLEAR SKY COMPRISES THE HEAVEN And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Gen 1:9
¶
And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear:

GOD NOW CAUSES THE OCEAN TO SUBSIDE, OR THE LAND TO RISE, SUCH THAT THE LAND PUSHES OUT OF THE OCEAN. and it was so.

Gen 1:10
And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:11
¶
And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

NOTICE THE REFERENCE TO FRUIT TREES OR ANGIOSPERMS, WHICH SHOW THIS IS THE LATEST OF THE GEOLOGICAL ERAS. FRUIT TREES ARE RECENT, AND SUITED TO MODERN HUMANS AND ANIMALS, AND POLLINATING INSECTS.

Gen 1:12
And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

GRASSES TOO ARE RECENT IN GEOLOGICAL TIME. THEY WERE NOT AROUND IN THE AGE OF THE DINOSAURS (I WILL CHECK THIS, BUT DINO'S ATE GYMNOSPERMS).

Gen 1:13
And the evening and the morning were the third day.
Gen 1:14
¶
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15
And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16
And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

THE ATMOSPHERE HAS CLEARED ENOUGH TO SEE THE MOON AND STARS SHINE THROUGH, AND GOD SETS THEM TO BE SEASONAL MARKERS FOR MAN WHOM HE PLANS TO CREATE SOON. THIS IS NOT REFERRING TO GOD CREATING SUN, MOON AND STARS AT THIS TIME. FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE SPIRIT HOVERING OVER THE WATERS, STARS CAN NOW BE SEEN AND ARE SET FOR SIGNS AND SEASONS, IN THE SAME WAY AS AFTER THE FLOOD THE RAINBOW (WHICH EXISTED PRE-FLOOD) NOW HAS SIGNIFICANCE AS A WITNESS TO GOD'S PROMISE. LIKEWISE THE MOON HAD LONG EXISTED, BUT NOW BECOMES A SIGN.

Gen 1:17
And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Gen 1:18
And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:19
And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Gen 1:20
¶
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

GOD CREATES MODERN FISH AND BIRDS.

Gen 1:21
And God created great whales,

WHALES ARE MODERN ANIMALS, PART OF THE MAMMAL GROUP WHICH DOMINATES THE OCEANS. IN DINO TIMES THERE WERE EQUIVALENT REPTILES THE SIZE OF WHALES, BUT NO WHALE SWAM WITH THESE.

...and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:22
And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
Gen 1:23
And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
Gen 1:24
¶
And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

GOD CREATES MODERN LAND ANIMALS LIKE CATTLE COMPATIBLE WITH MAN. THESE ARE DOMESTIC ANIMALS WHICH DID NOT EXIST TILL RECENTLY. GOD MADE ANIMALS WHICH MAN COULD EAT, AND WHICH WOULD NOT EAT HIM LIKE PAST ANIMALS.

Gen 1:25
And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:26
¶
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

HOMINIDS ARE ONLY FOUND VERY RECENTLY IN THE NEWEST STRATA. THIS TELLS US THAT THIS IS THE NEWEST RECREATION, OR EXPLOSION, AFTER THE LATEST MASS EXTINCTION.

Gen 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen 1:29
¶
And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Gen 1:30
And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
Gen 1:31
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Watchman, lets discuss the issue of whether time exists in the spirit realm, as it does in our realm.

I take it you won't just accept that a thousand years is like a day to God - meaning its still time.

I define time to be testable if effect follows cause. For instance if God created Lucifer before the physical universe, meaning in the spirit realm, then the effect is Lucifer which follows the process of creation.

Let's see if we agree that at first there was just the Godhead.
Then God created angels.
Then God created the universe, with the "sons of God" singing for joy.
Then Lucifer had a bad thought and turned to Satan.
Then God threw Satan down to the already created world.

Surely if God created the angels, it shows a cause and effect in the spirit realm.
Before - no angels.
After - angels.
If there is a before and after, time existed before the universe.

The meaning of a thousand years being like a day and visa versa is to do with prophesy. God's plan is that there shall be 6000 years of man's struggle and 1000 years of Sabbath rest with the Lord of the Sabbath, during Jesus' Millennial reign. This reflects the creation week and every week of our lives we are reminded of this plan (or at least those to whom it has been revealed).

Lucifer and all the angels were created on day 1 when God created the Heavens (which included the Spiritual Heaven) and they shouted for joy when God then created the Earth.

On day 6 Lucifer saw Adam and soon after God had finish on day 7 Lucifer began to realise what God had in mind and pride entered Lucifer. I actually believe this all happened very quickly. The creation week began the first year, in the month of Tishri and the fall of man happened on day 10, The Day of Atonement. God then declared there would be 6000 years of curse and His Son would return at the last trump which is on the Day of Atonement in the 120th Jubilee:

Lev 25
8“ ‘Count off seven Sabbath years—seven times seven years—so that the seven Sabbath years amount to a period of forty-nine years. 9 Then have the trumpet sounded everywhere on the tenth day of the seventh month; on the Day of Atonement sound the trumpet throughout your land. 10 Consecrate the fiftieth year and proclaim liberty throughout the land to all its inhabitants. It shall be a jubilee for you; each of you is to return to your family property and to your own clan.

Genesis 6:3
Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years."

In fact I believe it is the year 5988AM and the tribulation will begin in 2022AD. Not long to go:
https://guidetothebible.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/guidechronologylatest1.pdf

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

That's why I don't accept the day-age theory, because it IS rubbish.

You continue to ignore the theological hopscotch required to support your view that I have pointed out time and again. Read me more carefully.

AMR

 

[iouae]

The meaning of a thousand years being like a day and visa versa is to do with prophesy. God's plan is that there shall be 6000 years of man's struggle and 1000 years of Sabbath rest with the Lord of the Sabbath, during Jesus' Millennial reign. This reflects the creation week and every week of our lives we are reminded of this plan (or at least those to whom it has been revealed).

What you say may be true, but you do realise that what you have just said is not Gospel, but something you suppose. Putting 2Peter 3:8 and 10 together you could equally have said that the "day of the LORD" will last 1000 years.

Lucifer and all the angels were created on day 1 when God created the Heavens (which included the Spiritual Heaven) and they shouted for joy when God then created the Earth.

I thought God created light on the first day. I do not see where you get what you said above from.

On day 6 Lucifer saw Adam and soon after God had finish on day 7 Lucifer began to realise what God had in mind and pride entered Lucifer. I actually believe this all happened very quickly.

Lucifer was thrown out of heaven to land up on earth. Your scenario seems to have him there on earth from the start. I believe it took billions of years for Lucifer to fall. Lucifer was created before the heavens, and the heavens were created over 13.75 billion years ago.

The creation week began the first year, in the month of Tishri and the fall of man happened on day 10, The Day of Atonement. God then declared there would be 6000 years of curse and His Son would return at the last trump which is on the Day of Atonement in the 120th Jubilee:

Lev 25
8“ ‘Count off seven Sabbath years—seven times seven years—so that the seven Sabbath years amount to a period of forty-nine years. 9 Then have the trumpet sounded everywhere on the tenth day of the seventh month; on the Day of Atonement sound the trumpet throughout your land. 10 Consecrate the fiftieth year and proclaim liberty throughout the land to all its inhabitants. It shall be a jubilee for you; each of you is to return to your family property and to your own clan.

Genesis 6:3
Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years."

In fact I believe it is the year 5988AM and the tribulation will begin in 2022AD. Not long to go:
https://guidetothebible.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/guidechronologylatest1.pdf

Well don't neglect your teeth or stop planting trees because you are not the first to set a date and be wrong. Remember the great disappointment back in the 1840's.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

That experiment does not prove what you suggest. Motion effects clocks, not time. If you don't believe that there is a difference then you simply don't know what you are talking about.

There is no better refutation of your position than this...

Summit Clock Experiment 2.0: Time is Absolute

No, what I mean is that gravitational fields (or speed) affect the age of the matter. Not only are clock speeds affected but, for example, we would age faster, or slower, depending on the gravitational field strength (or speed we are travelling).

Time is intrinsically linked to space and matter. It is not just an abstract concept but part of God's creation. That is why He is out side of time.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

What you say may be true, but you do realise that what you have just said is not Gospel, but something you suppose. Putting 2Peter 3:8 and 10 together you could equally have said that the "day of the LORD" will last 1000 years.

I thought God created light on the first day. I do not see where you get what you said above from.

Lucifer was thrown out of heaven to land up on earth. Your scenario seems to have him there on earth from the start. I believe it took billions of years for Lucifer to fall. Lucifer was created before the heavens, and the heavens were created over 13.75 billion years ago.

Well don't neglect your teeth or stop planting trees because you are not the first to set a date and be wrong. Remember the great disappointment back in the 1840's.

Yes light was created right after the Earth. Lucifer was not on the Earth on day one, he only saw it being made from Heaven.

As said God reveals this sort of thing to us which is different from reading it off the computer screen.

We are theologically divergent in these areas of course and I wish you and your teeth well too but I am not old enough to remember the 1840's.

 

[iouae]

Time is intrinsically linked to space and matter. It is not just an abstract concept but part of God's creation. That is why He is out side of time.

Just as there is length, breadth, height and time, on earth, likewise it is in heaven. See Revelation and Ezek Ch 1-2.
Why do we have hands, because God has hands.
We look human, because God looks human.
Time on earth is like time in heaven.
Like on earth, so in heaven where things occur serially, meaning we are shown heaven to have everything occur serially, effect following cause.

What's heaven like? Like earth.
What is spirit like? Like earth.
God does not fall through his throne, because heaven is solid for spirit being made of spirit.
Its all so easy to understand.
When God made the material universe, he fashioned it after the spiritual universe, which too has time.

 

[iouae]

Yes light was created right after the Earth. Lucifer was not on the Earth on day one, he only saw it being made from Heaven.

As said God reveals this sort of thing to us which is different from reading it off the computer screen.

We are theologically divergent in these areas of course and I wish you and your teeth well too but I am not old enough to remember the 1840's.

Every one of many attempts to predict the end has fallen flat to date. 100% failure rate.

God said the day and hour, no man knows.
But Sir Isaac Newton worked it out to be 2065. And I would not bet on him either.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Just as there is length, breadth, height and time, on earth, likewise it is in heaven. See Revelation and Ezek Ch 1-2.
Why do we have hands, because God has hands.
We look human, because God looks human.
Time on earth is like time in heaven.
Like on earth, so in heaven where things occur serially, meaning we are shown heaven to have everything occur serially, effect following cause.

What's heaven like? Like earth.
What is spirit like? Like earth.
God does not fall through his throne, because heaven is solid for spirit being made of spirit.
Its all so easy to understand.
When God made the material universe, he fashioned it after the spiritual universe, which too has time.

Yes I agree that there is time in Heaven but God (The Trinity) is outside of time.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Every one of many attempts to predict the end has fallen flat to date. 100% failure rate.

God said the day and hour, no man knows.
But Sir Isaac Newton worked it out to be 2065. And I would not bet on him either.

Betting is not very Christian so I wouldn't do that anyway but we will know who the true 'date setting' prophets are because they will say the tribulation will begin in 2022. Then when the tribulation does actually begin in that year the rest of the body of Christ should know for sure that Jesus will return in 2029.

 

[Clete]

When one looks at the night sky, every star one sees is closer than 6000 light years.
I have never seen with my own eyes, light older than 6000 years since I don't have a telescope.
But I have seen the photos Hubble took. And Hubble just kept looking further and further back in time at more and more distant galaxies. It was capturing photons which had been released billions of years ago.

Explain to me how you can look at distant star clusters and explain away the distance and hence time it took for light to get here. You claim to know science. There is no glass ceiling or barrier which exists at exactly 6000 light years from here. The universe is seamless and seemingly uniform. You know the speed of light is a constant. So how did light from so far get here so soon?

I do not know that the speed of light is constant.

Even if it is, there is nothing that prevents space itself from expanding at a much greater speed than light. The question is who or what did or is doing the stretching and when was it stretched.

Further, the distances to other galaxies are based on assumptions that may or may not be correct. Most all the distances "calculated" for far distant galaxies is based entirely on red-shift theory, which there is serious problems with.

There are other things that could be said on this topic that would, I think, be better suited to another thread. I'm not really interested in debating cosmology per se, at least not on this thread. I'm more interested in discussing the compatibility of theistic and naturalistic cosmologies - or the lack thereof. I think that the answers I've given adequately communicate the gist of how my theistic worldview deals with issues such as astronomical distances.

Clete

 

[Clete]

Clete, you know that the strata are laid down so that groups of organisms such as dinosaurs and their friends are together. Its like each stratum has its own clique of organisms. The dinosaurs and the seas during the dinosaurs were filled with reptiles. The Mesozoic clique of dinosaurs, for instance, never hangs out with the Palaeozoic clique of Trilobites. Likewise Manny the wooly mammoth and Diego the sabre toothed tiger never mix with T. rex or Triceratops.

Fossils are organized, roughly speaking, by size, not age.

This cannot be explained away, except to say they were fossilised at different times.

Only if you buy into THEIR premises - which is precisely my point. You clearly trust naturalistic science theory over the plain reading of scripture.

The fact that Palaeontologists choose to label these cliques of animals as geological ages, is just a shorthand way of discussing the earth's past.

It's quite a lot more than that. It isn't merely refering to a layer of dirt in the ground. It references and derives it's meaning from a geologic theory that presupposes that only natural processes had anything to do with Earth's past. You cannot accepts their conclusions without tacitly accepting their atheistic premises.

If a whole collection of these strange, ancient animals are found buried together, all around the globe, science wants an explanation. How do you account for this lack of mixing of fossils in strata?

Fossil stratification as well as a great many other geological things are explained quite well in...
The Hydroplate Theory


Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Clete]

It seems the only science which has you worried is the science which dates the universe.

This was, frankly, a stupid thing to say.

I am not worried about anything. In fact, it isn't me fishing for an age of the universe, its the evolutionists (not just biological evolutionists). They are the one's who need an really old universe. I've got mounds of evidence that directly supports and even confirms my worldview. Just about every geocronometer you can come up with leaves the evolutionists scrambling to find 90+% of the age of the Earth, never mind the universe.

It is only in connection with this that you issue so many warnings about paradigm blindness.

I would agree that it is a central issue but it is not the only issue. No form of evolution, no matter how long it took can be made to correspond to the record in Genesis. It isn't just the period of time it took, its the order in which things occurred. If evolution is true, the bible isn't and vise versa.

So let's face your fear straight on.

You are going to explain old light.
Then you are going to explain how fossils sorted into strata.
Then, hopefully, you will accept that it was logical and spatially impossible for all the billions of organisms to have occupied the same niche (earth) at the same time.
Then you are going to do the scientific thing of accepting as a working hypothesis that Gen 1:2 just might be translated "And the earth BECAME without form and void".
Then you will reexamine fossil record and see that many times in the past, earth "became without form and void, and darkness covered the deep" such as the time of the mass extinction when a comet ploughed into earth wiping out the dinosaurs.
Then you will be pronounced cured of earth-might-be-old-phobia.

This is the sort of stupidity that I am actively avoiding by stating at the outset that I will not debate evolution with you. My entire point is that you are accepting the premise of atheism. I certainly will not be induced into accepting the false premises that you have clearly swallowed hook line and sinker. Every syllable to type along this line of thought is proof that what I've said is true and that you trust naturalistic (i.e. atheistic) science more than you trust God's word. It is not my burden to explain away the atheist worldview. If anything it would your burden to prove that such an atheistic worldview is compatible with what the bible teaches, which you cannot do without making the bible state things that it doesn't say and/or rending meaningless the claims that it clearly does make.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Clete]

No, what I mean is that gravitational fields (or speed) affect the age of the matter. Not only are clock speeds affected but, for example, we would age faster, or slower, depending on the gravitational field strength (or speed we are travelling).

It's clocks all the way down, watchman.

The aging process, is just another form of clock.

Time is intrinsically linked to space and matter. It is not just an abstract concept but part of God's creation. That is why He is out side of time.

No, clocks are intrinsically linked to space and matter - whatever that means.

Time is an idea - not a thing. Time is a convention of language that is used to communicate information about the duration and sequence of events. It doesn't not exist ontologically. Ideas are not effected by gravity fields.

This specific debate can be found and continued here.

You should, at the very least, read the opening post of that thread before going any further down this road. If you want to understand what a biblical worldview looks like in relation to the nature of time, that post is it.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Why do we have hands, because God has hands.

Yikes!

I have been wasting my time trying to take you seriously.

AMR

 

[Ktoyou]

This was, frankly, a stupid thing to say.

I am not worried about anything. In fact, it isn't me fishing for an age of the universe, its the evolutionists (not just biological evolutionists). They are the one's who need an really old universe. I've got mounds of evidence that directly supports and even confirms my worldview. Just about every geocronometer you can come up with leaves the evolutionists scrambling to find 90+% of the age of the Earth, never mind the universe.


I would agree that it is a central issue but it is not the only issue. No form of evolution, no matter how long it took can be made to correspond to the record in Genesis. It isn't just the period of time it took, its the order in which things occurred. If evolution is true, the bible isn't and vise versa.


This is the sort of stupidity that I am actively avoiding by stating at the outset that I will not debate evolution with you. My entire point is that you are accepting the premise of atheism. I certainly will not be induced into accepting the false premises that you have clearly swallowed hook line and sinker. Every syllable to type along this line of thought is proof that what I've said is true and that you trust naturalistic (i.e. atheistic) science more than you trust God's word. It is not my burden to explain away the atheist worldview. If anything it would your burden to prove that such an atheistic worldview is compatible with what the bible teaches, which you cannot do without making the bible state things that it doesn't say and/or rending meaningless the claims that it clearly does make.

Resting in Him,
Clete

I do not think he has enough understanding to be an atheist; he is either a :dunce: or a :troll:

 

[Ktoyou]

Yikes!

I have been wasting my time trying to take you seriously.

AMR

This would suggest he is more a :dunce: than a :troll: Yep!