Trinity Proof Scriptures

[Dartman]

Only one of your anti-trinitarian buds on this thread even tried refuting the yellow chart about a dozen pages back, the one that shows Christ is Yahweh, and he wrongly focused on only one verse that got him spanked and sent to his room.

Your assessment isn't accurate, it's merely bluster.

You seem pretty bright,

Thank you for the kind words!

you ever going to give it a shot?


View attachment 26703

Perhaps a summary.

The entire graphic is an exercise in distorting Scripture, and claiming it means something it clearly doesn't say.

The "Center" premise "Jesus is Yahweh (Jehovah)" is impossible.

Jehovah declares plainly that HE is the source of Jesus' words (Deut 18:17-19, Acts 3:20-24)
Jesus declares plainly that his Father is the source of Jesus' words .... that Jesus is NOT. (John 12:49,50 John 14:24)

Therefore, the Father is Jehovah/YHVH God .... Jesus cannot be.

 

[john w]

Yes, the son has the nature of the Father.

Are you a son of God?

I John 3:2

I am a son of God.

Not by adoption, but by seed.

I Peter 1:23

Your logic requires that I as a son of God is God?

Is that what you are telling me?

For that matter, you do admit, evidently that Jesus is a son.

And as a son has the nature of the Father

God is his Father. If Jesus is God, then Jesus must be his own son?

Why the confusion?

Why not enjoy the clarity of scripture rightly divided?

=spam, misdirection, changing his argument, create a moving target, side step, doing the hokey pokey, and turn all arond, as the Christ rejector, forgets his own "argument."..


That is slick, Forest....Real slick...

Slower:

There is no mention of God the Father in the OT

So what?

Is that supposed to be an argument that supports some wisdom of yours?

It isn't.

All it proves is that God the Father is not mentioned in the OT.

Peter is not mentioned in the OT either.

Are you going to suggest that Peter is not really a person that Jesus Christ spent time with?

If you have some point to make, you might want to make it, you know, before Jesus Christ returns.

Why don' you read what I wrote instead of staining it with your false doctrines and illogic?

What does omnipotent mean?

What does omniscient mean?

What are your definitions of those terms?

Who knows maybe I could agree with your definition, but until you define them, I see no way to discuss the issue.

So rather than divide, how about you define those terms?

Now, can I be how stupid?

If you have to resort to insults, then I know you have no scriptural reply.

Man up and admit you are wrong about the trinity, that is is a false doctrine that is in now way taught by God in the scriptures.

Man up boy.

Gird up your loins and admit it

You missed it.This is your grade school argument, clown:

There is no "God the Son" mentioned in the scriptures.

You can't be this stupid. I take that back. All Christ rejectors, which, by definition, are those that reject that the Lord Jesus Christ is God, are stupid.

You: Since the bible does not employ, "mention," the terms, "atheism...monotheism...rapture...omnipotent...omniscient.... God the Son... God the Holy Spirit...The Sermon On The Mount.. Holy of Holies... God the Holy Spirit.........." ........................................these concepts, like "Trinity," are false.

You're a moron.Grow a brain, or get saved-or both.

Man up boy.

Real tough guy, are you, punk? Impressive. Lack confidence, do you, punk? Yes... I've fought bigger girls than you, sis, so you don't scare me.

If you have to resort to insults, then I know you have no scriptural reply.

I always insult wolves. Too bad, cry baby, and stuff your "Poor me....wounded soul....accusation of hate technique" made up false "doctrine," as exposing, marking, identifying wolves, like yourself, and calling them names, is biblical, despite your spineless protests to the contrary.


And get this, punk: wolves, and sheep, generally don't get along. But, if that gives you the "warms and fuzzies," knock yourself out, talk show groupie.

Am I clear, wolfie? And kindly show me the scripture, where I must "reply" to anyone, including a wolf, and Christ rejector, such as yourself.

I thought so.

Does God the Father have a wife?

Son, in the book, means one possessing the nature of something, whether literal or figurative("Son of man," which the Saviour used over, and over again, "sons of thunder," "sons of disobedience"...survey Mark 3:7 KJV, Ephesians 2:1 KJV,....) Typically, when "son of" is used in relation to a person (son of man, son of Abraham, son of David,.......) the son possesses the nature of his father.

 

[oatmeal]

=spam, misdirection, changing his argument, create a moving target, side step, doing the hokey pokey, and turn all arond, as the Christ rejector, forgets his own "argument."..


That is slick, Forest....Real slick...

Slower:


You missed it.This is your grade school argument, clown:




You can't be this stupid. I take that back. All Christ rejectors, which, by definition, are those that reject that the Lord Jesus Christ is God, are stupid.

You: Since the bible does not employ, "mention," the terms, "atheism...monotheism...rapture...omnipotent...omniscient.... God the Son... God the Holy Spirit...The Sermon On The Mount.. Holy of Holies... God the Holy Spirit.........." ........................................these concepts, like "Trinity," are false.

You're a moron.Grow a brain, or get saved-or both.


Real tough guy, are you, punk? Impressive. Lack confidence, do you, punk? Yes... I've fought bigger girls than you, sis, so you don't scare me.


I always insult wolves. Too bad, cry baby, and stuff your "Poor me....wounded soul....accusation of hate technique" made up false "doctrine," as exposing, marking, identifying wolves, like yourself, and calling them names, is biblical, despite your spineless protests to the contrary.


And get this, punk: wolves, and sheep, generally don't get along. But, if that gives you the "warms and fuzzies," knock yourself out, talk show groupie.

Am I clear, wolfie? And kindly show me the scripture, where I must "reply" to anyone, including a wolf, and Christ rejector, such as yourself.

I thought so.

Does God the Father have a wife?

Son, in the book, means one possessing the nature of something, whether literal or figurative("Son of man," which the Saviour used over, and over again, "sons of thunder," "sons of disobedience"...survey Mark 3:7 KJV, Ephesians 2:1 KJV,....) Typically, when "son of" is used in relation to a person (son of man, son of Abraham, son of David,.......) the son possesses the nature of his father.

John

Thanks for the spirited argument.

But John, really? You think you are getting the upper hand by insulting me?

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Are you a son of God?

Do you the nature of your Father?

Are you God?

Well I am still awaiting your answer to my question regarding

Matthew 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Are they sons of stone or sons of Abraham?

 

[john w]

John

Thanks for the spirited argument.

But John, really? You think you are getting the upper hand by insulting me?

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Are you a son of God?

Do you the nature of your Father?

Are you God?

Well I am still awaiting your answer to my question regarding

Matthew 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Are they sons of stone or sons of Abraham?

Yes, the son has the nature of the Father.

Are you a son of God?

I John 3:2

I am a son of God.

Not by adoption, but by seed.

I Peter 1:23

Your logic requires that I as a son of God is God?

Is that what you are telling me?

For that matter, you do admit, evidently that Jesus is a son.

And as a son has the nature of the Father

God is his Father. If Jesus is God, then Jesus must be his own son?

Why the confusion?

Why not enjoy the clarity of scripture rightly divided?

=spam, misdirection, changing his argument, create a moving target, side step, doing the hokey pokey, and turn all around, as the Christ rejector, forgets his own "argument."..


That is slick, Forest....Real slick...

Slower:

There is no mention of God the Father in the OT

So what?

Is that supposed to be an argument that supports some wisdom of yours?

It isn't.

All it proves is that God the Father is not mentioned in the OT.

Peter is not mentioned in the OT either.

Are you going to suggest that Peter is not really a person that Jesus Christ spent time with?

If you have some point to make, you might want to make it, you know, before Jesus Christ returns.

Why don' you read what I wrote instead of staining it with your false doctrines and illogic?

What does omnipotent mean?

What does omniscient mean?

What are your definitions of those terms?

Who knows maybe I could agree with your definition, but until you define them, I see no way to discuss the issue.

So rather than divide, how about you define those terms?

Now, can I be how stupid?

If you have to resort to insults, then I know you have no scriptural reply.

Man up and admit you are wrong about the trinity, that is is a false doctrine that is in now way taught by God in the scriptures.

Man up boy.

Gird up your loins and admit it

You missed it.This is your grade school argument, clown:

There is no "God the Son" mentioned in the scriptures.

You can't be this stupid. I take that back. All Christ rejectors, which, by definition, are those that reject that the Lord Jesus Christ is God, are stupid.

You: Since the bible does not employ, "mention," the terms, "atheism...monotheism...rapture...omnipotent...omniscient.... God the Son... God the Holy Spirit...The Sermon On The Mount.. Holy of Holies... God the Holy Spirit.........." ........................................these concepts, like "Trinity," are false.

You're a moron.Grow a brain, or get saved-or both.

Man up boy.

Real tough guy, are you, punk? Impressive. Lack confidence, do you, punk? Yes... I've fought bigger girls than you, sis, so you don't scare me.

If you have to resort to insults, then I know you have no scriptural reply.

I always insult wolves. Too bad, cry baby, and stuff your "Poor me....wounded soul....accusation of hate technique" made up false "doctrine," as exposing, marking, identifying wolves, like yourself, and calling them names, is biblical, despite your spineless protests to the contrary.


And get this, punk: wolves, and sheep, generally don't get along. But, if that gives you the "warms and fuzzies," knock yourself out, talk show groupie.

Am I clear, wolfie? And kindly show me the scripture, where I must "reply" to anyone, including a wolf, and Christ rejector, such as yourself.

I thought so.

Does God the Father have a wife?

Son, in the book, means one possessing the nature of something, whether literal or figurative("Son of man," which the Saviour used over, and over again, "sons of thunder," "sons of disobedience"...survey Mark 3:7 KJV, Ephesians 2:1 KJV,....) Typically, when "son of" is used in relation to a person (son of man, son of Abraham, son of David,.......) the son possesses the nature of his father.


WHY DID YOU LIE, re. "God is spirit," deceiver?


NOT A PEEP.


Con artist.

 

[musterion]

The entire graphic is an exercise in distorting Scripture, and claiming it means something it clearly doesn't say.

That is not a refutation, that is your opinion. Try again.

The "Center" premise "Jesus is Yahweh (Jehovah)" is impossible.

That is not a refutation, it is your unproven assertion. Try again.

Jehovah declares plainly that HE is the source of Jesus' words (Deut 18:17-19, Acts 3:20-24)
Jesus declares plainly that his Father is the source of Jesus' words .... that Jesus is NOT. (John 12:49,50 John 14:24)

Therefore, the Father is Jehovah/YHVH God .... Jesus cannot be.

You know what? Your logic would be watertight and unassailable except for one thing: you (and all anti-trinitarians) ignore the fact of the Incarnation and the unique relationship between the Word made flesh, Christ the Man "according to the flesh" (2 Cor 5:16) and God the Father. That's a lens your side never even tries to use to view Scripture because it instantly blows your position clean out of the water.

Now back to the point...what do you make of the chart's DOZENS of Bible scriptures, taken in context, which indicate Christ = Yahweh? Are you going to ignore them and simply scoff like Oatmeal and G.O. did? I invite you to begin a dedicated thread where you can dissect it and take on each point one by one.

 

[oatmeal]

You can continue to be a snarky juvenile jackwagon, or you can man up and try to refute the chart. Your call.

I have refuted the lousy private interpretations sufficiently and enough times.

Your refusal to acknowledge that is your problem not mine

 

[oatmeal]

=spam, misdirection, changing his argument, create a moving target, side step, doing the hokey pokey, and turn all around, as the Christ rejector, forgets his own "argument."..


That is slick, Forest....Real slick...

Slower:


You missed it.This is your grade school argument, clown:




You can't be this stupid. I take that back. All Christ rejectors, which, by definition, are those that reject that the Lord Jesus Christ is God, are stupid.

You: Since the bible does not employ, "mention," the terms, "atheism...monotheism...rapture...omnipotent...omniscient.... God the Son... God the Holy Spirit...The Sermon On The Mount.. Holy of Holies... God the Holy Spirit.........." ........................................these concepts, like "Trinity," are false.

You're a moron.Grow a brain, or get saved-or both.


Real tough guy, are you, punk? Impressive. Lack confidence, do you, punk? Yes... I've fought bigger girls than you, sis, so you don't scare me.


I always insult wolves. Too bad, cry baby, and stuff your "Poor me....wounded soul....accusation of hate technique" made up false "doctrine," as exposing, marking, identifying wolves, like yourself, and calling them names, is biblical, despite your spineless protests to the contrary.


And get this, punk: wolves, and sheep, generally don't get along. But, if that gives you the "warms and fuzzies," knock yourself out, talk show groupie.

Am I clear, wolfie? And kindly show me the scripture, where I must "reply" to anyone, including a wolf, and Christ rejector, such as yourself.

I thought so.

Does God the Father have a wife?

Son, in the book, means one possessing the nature of something, whether literal or figurative("Son of man," which the Saviour used over, and over again, "sons of thunder," "sons of disobedience"...survey Mark 3:7 KJV, Ephesians 2:1 KJV,....) Typically, when "son of" is used in relation to a person (son of man, son of Abraham, son of David,.......) the son possesses the nature of his father.


WHY DID YOU LIE, re. "God is spirit," deceiver?


NOT A PEEP.


Con artist.

God is spirit

Have you not read John 4:24?

Well, if you wish to remain ignorant that is your problem, not mine

There is not such scripture to support your conclusion "All Christ rejectors, which, by definition, are those that reject that the Lord Jesus Christ is God, are stupid."

It is a shame you have to deceive and make up s*** in order to "substantiate your claims.

Your threeeology is pathetic

 

[Dartman]

...

You know what? Your logic would be watertight and unassailable except for one thing: you (and all anti-trinitarians) ignore the fact of the Incarnation and the unique relationship between the Word made flesh, Christ the Man "according to the flesh" (2 Cor 5:16) and God the Father. That's a lens your side never even tries to use to view Scripture because it instantly blows your position clean out of the water.

That "lens" is inspired by pagan theories, and is contradictory to Scripture, and to God's Creation.
There is NOTHING in Creation to validate the fictitious "incarnation" theory! That's not how it works!!
There is NOTHING in Scripture that explains the "incarnation" theory!!

Instead, we have Paul's dire warning;
2 Cor 11:3-4 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

So, until you provide ANY example of your "incarnate Jesus" being PREACHED TO AN AUDIENCE in the Scriptures ...... you are not going to persuade me.

Now back to the point...what do you make of the chart's DOZENS of Bible scriptures, taken in context, which indicate Christ = Yahweh?

There are none. There ARE verses that discuss Christ as Jehovah/YHVH God's AGENT.... but NONE that overcome the impossiblity Jesus outlined.

Are you going to ignore them and simply scoff like Oatmeal and G.O. did? I invite you to begin a dedicated thread where you can dissect it and take on each point one by one.

I would be happy to do just that. I will title it "Jesus cannot be Jehovah". The OP will be

 

[oatmeal]

The amusing part is that wasn't a Trinitarian chart.

You are right, there is nothing there or in scripture that would support the trinity, nor would support the "Jesus is God" doctrine.

Granted, someone who is trying to support the trinity could try to manipulate those scriptures to try to conform to their threeeology, but twisting scriptures, they might as well be twisting a dagger into their own heart and God's and Jesus Christ's heart as well

 

[keypurr]

You are still a pathetic loser.

They thought Jesus was also.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

You are right, there is nothing there or in scripture that would support the trinity, nor would support the "Jesus is God" doctrine.

Granted, someone who is trying to support the trinity could try to manipulate those scriptures to try to conform to their threeeology, but twisting scriptures, they might as well be twisting a dagger into their own heart and God's and Jesus Christ's heart as well

They could listen to Sid Hatch on Utube and get a clue.

LA

 

[musterion]

I have refuted the lousy private interpretations sufficiently and enough times.

No you haven't.

 

[musterion]

They thought Jesus was also.

They were wrong about Him. But it's true of you.

 

[musterion]

I would be happy to do just that. I will title it "Jesus cannot be Jehovah". The OP will be

Go for it. Be sure to @ JohnW, 7, and myself when it's up.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Go for it. Be sure to @ JohnW, 7, and myself when it's up.

And me too

 

[chair]

The holy spirit is God's spirit .... an attribute OF God, a thing possessed by God, it is God's mind, and the power produced by God's mind.

IT is called "His spirit", or "holy spirit of God", or some other possessive phrase more than 50 times in Scripture.

Jesus said he would "pray the Father, and HE will send you another comforter" (John 14).

Jesus also said ;
Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the holy spirit to them that ask Him?

Luke calls God's spirit "the power of the Highest". (Luke 1:35)

This is similar to the Hebrew concept of "Ruach Hakodesh". One who has this is inspired by God. It is likely that this is what the term originally meant in the early Christian writings.

 

[musterion]

Yes, and JR too!

 

[Idolater]

This is similar to the Hebrew concept of "Ruach Hakodesh". One who has this is inspired by God.

Christ promised Ruach Hakodesh to His Apostles. Their interpretation of your scriptures is Ruach Hakodesh's authoritative interpretation of them. This is authentic Christianity, this is just fyi.

It is likely that this is what the term originally meant in the early Christian writings.

Authentic Christianity is Apostolic. The Apostles are the source of all Christian truth. Again, this is the authentic Christian view, and is fyi.

 

[JudgeRightly]

You clearly do not wish to discuss matters

If I truly did not, then I wouldn't be on this forum engaging with you.

You're the one who it seems doesn't want to discuss, as you keep avoiding addressing my points directly.

and clearly lack the capacity

Ad hominem.

to have a dignified discussion, you call me a liar

Because you are.

I showed how. It's not my fault you ignored it.

and make claim after claim without evidence.

Says the one who rejects every bit of evidence I provide and who is constantly trying to correct what the Bible says plainly.

You made silly remarks that I'm a liar

What do you call someone who lies? a liar.

You lied about what I said multiple times, therefore you're a liar.

and then call me out by saying contradictory remarks

There was nothing contradictory about what I said.

such as "Your argument was not whether the Father was Jehovah, but whether Jehovah was the Father"

My argument was of the same caliber as "All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares."

But I wouldn't expect you to understand that.

(just to make you aware these mean exactly the same thing,

Not all rectangles are squares.

e.g "I'm not saying Jesus wasn't God but God wasn't Jesus", like, what's the difference.

The difference is that some things can be other things without all the other things being the former.

A = B does not always mean that B = A

You're achieving levels of contradiction I've never experienced before.

There is nothing contradictory about what I'm saying. You're just not doing a very good job trying to understand me.

Also, please note that most -if not all- scholars agree

Argumentum ad populum.

I care not what the majority of scholars agree upon, because they, like myself, are merely human, and are fallible, and their opinions subjective.

I'd rather rely on God's word, the objective Source of Truth.

that Roman 9:6,7, and also that of Romans 11 which speaks of the grafting of the wild olive branches(gentiles) on to the olive tree(Israel) along with the other evidence I provided shows that Christians today are spiritual Israel,

Case in point. The olive tree is not symbolic of Israel, but of those who have placed their faith in God in general. That's why only some of the branches were cut off, and not all of them.

If you disagree with this then you disagree with orthodox Christianity.

Once again, argumentum ad populum.

Go away and do some research, study Romans 11,

I've studied Romans as a whole. And because I have the context of chapter 11 down, I know exactly what it says.

In fact, you just have to read it carefully. It's not hard.

learn some manners,

You'd rebuke Jesus if you saw him being rude.

Are you nicer than God? :think:

:mock:

and come back to be me when you're ready to act like a Christian

How long did it take you to Google that response?

and have an

Learn to speak properly.

adult discussion instead of acting like a teenager who hasn't learnt to control their tongue.

:blabla:

I don't have all the time in the world,

:blabla:

I was going to reply, you simply needed a little Christian patience my friend.

I don't have patience with those who constantly try to correct what the Bible says plainly.

One last point that I will leave with unless you return in good spirit, you've already acknowledged the fact that we are "Abraham's seed", Abraham's seed as mentioned in the very verse you quoted was through Isaac, who bore Jacob/Israel.

(Romans 9:7, 8) "..For not all who descend from Israel are really “Israel.” 7 Neither are they all children because they are Abraham’s seed; rather, “What will be called your seed will be through Isaac.” 8 That is, the children in the flesh are not really the children of God, but the children by the promise are counted as the offspring..."

Thus your argument that Abraham seeds relates to his other children crumbles, "Abraham's seed" is through Isaac seed, namely Jacob/Israel as seen above and in Gen 21:12 (And God said to Abraham, in Isaac shall your seed be called" Gen 21:12 AKJV). Furthermore, scripture is clear, God recognised Abraham as having one legitimate son, "[God said to Abraham after stopping him sacrificing Isaac] because you have done this and you have not withheld your son, your only one, I will surely bless you" (Gen 22:16).

:blabla:

None of that changes the fact that Israel was Abraham's grandson, and that Abraham had two wives and a concubine.

The fact that you have to deny that Ishmael was actually Abraham's firstborn is telling, Bible-corrector.

 

[JudgeRightly]

The Apostles are the source of all Christian truth.

Wrong.

GOD is the source of all truth.

The 12 Apostles were simply conduits for God's revelation of truth for Israel, and Paul was simply a conduit for God's revelation of truth for the whole world.

In other words, two "dispensations."