Trinity Proof Scriptures

[Idolater]

There is no direct line of succession from the Apostles of Christ to the self-appointed bishops of the Catholic Church.

Yes there is, a physical one; the imposition of hands, as mentioned in the Scripture, and as practiced today, and as practiced without interruption since its inception. It's called Holy Orders, one of the Church's seven sacraments. Every valid bishop today traces their lineage back to one of the Apostles, who began the practice of appointing bishops /overseers /elders, during their lifetimes on the earth.

And if you can't accept Catholicism, then also note that all valid Orthodox bishops are of the same lineage, though of course the Orthodox bishops and the Western (now Catholic) bishops schismed in AD 1054, though some have returned to full communion; they are known as the Eastern Catholic churches.

 

[NWL]

1. Jesus was not the first to be raised from the dead, and he is not the last to be raised from the dead. Jesus raised people himself, and there will be a resurrection of the dead, both the just and the unjust.

2. Jesus was not the first to be raised by God without a human prophet, even if you rationalize that Jesus (and not God) raises the dead in the resurrection. The dead came out of their tombs when he was crucified.

3. Jesus may have been the first to have been raised to eternal life, but he is not the last to be raised to eternal life. There is a resurrection unto eternal life.

Your meaning was invented and even then it falls apart under any scrutiny.

On the other hand, "the first and the last" in Isaiah identifies he who created the worlds, and amazingly enough, John and Paul also identify he who created the worlds as Jesus. And the Old Testament also tells us (Genesis, Isaiah, etc) that the Creator who created the world alone is whom we call God.

Imagine that.

You've been arguing the invented and implausible against that which is actually explicitly stated, of which the meaning is confirmed through other avenues and sources.

And if your theory is to be believed, "I am the first and the last" is totally unnecessary in those passages (besides being rather difficult for you to explain) and "Alpha and Omega" gets the same title in the context of Revelation as well. Now you'd have to reason that the same unique title means different things in the same book.

Somewhere in here maybe there's a point where you'd be willing to consider that maybe Jesus and his apostles actually meant what they said... the way it sounds.

This post seems to be more of a statement than reasoning. Because of this I will ask the questions that were vital to my argument that you failed to address in my last post.

1. Could Adam rightly called "the first and the last" in the sense of being the first and last human that was made by God from dust?

2. Whose message was preached on earth according to the NT, Jesus or the Fathers message?

3. Who is ultimate judge according to Acts 17:31, the Father or Jesus?(see also John 5:22)

4. If the F&L is in relation to Jesus being Almighty God as in Rev 1:8 then how is it possible the "first and the last became dead" according to both Rev 1:18 and Rev 2:8 since God cannot die. Please do not say its speaking about his humanity as Jesus is clearly speaking in regards to his divine nature (according to your reasoning of F&L being the same as Rev 1:8 A&O the almighty).

5. Show us were "Jesus was not the first to be raised by God without a human prophet"?

3. Jesus may have been the first to have been raised to eternal life, but he is not the last to be raised to eternal life. There is a resurrection unto eternal life.

You are correct, he isn't the last to be raised to eternal life, but the Father is not the one who will be rasining all others after Jesus to eternal life, Jesus is. So still, Jesus is the ONLY person who was raised by the Father himself, and also the last one to be raised by the Father.

(John 6:57) "..Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will live because of me..

 

[NWL]

I agree with my prior answer, but it wasn't my answer at fault, but rather your question which failed to address both possibilities:

"Greetings from Andrew, and from the folk at Theology Online, and from Rosenritter, whom you know through discussion..."

I could easily speak like that above, which also meshes perfectly well with statements to follow confirming that Rosenritter, is indeed and in fact Andrew, whom you have never seen, and of whom you can never see (no Skype in this analogy.)

And just to make this a little clearer, the words that Rosenritter speaks are not his own, and Rosenritter does nothing of his own, every word is typed by Andrew and nothing is done without the power of Andrew. So... how many people are Andrew and Rosenritter? One? or Two?

Rosenritter is Andrew made text. And depending on the setting it still makes sense to refer to Rosenritter in some roles and context and Andrew in other roles and context. Sometimes it will seem to blend, sometimes it will sound separate. When in doubt, listen to the specific clarification that is given, such as "I am ... (insert unique name and/or title)"

Rev 1:1 tells us, "A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him", "God" and "Jesus" are separate according to the context of the opening verse, the reason I bring this up is because in v8 "God" is mentioned again and is the "one who is, was and is coming", contextually the one mentioned in Rev 1:8 is not Jesus since Jesus was the who was given the revelation by God, thus your example does not fit into the context of the chapters context and is a loaded question. If then, we were to add into your example the context "A revelation by Rosenritter, which Andrew gave him" and then you gave your example of "Hello from Andrew, and the staff at TOL, and Rosenritter" then Rosenritter would not be Andrew, would you not agree?

John...May you have undeserved kindness and peace from “the One who is and who was and who is coming,” and from the seven spirits that are before his throne, and from Jesus Christ “the Faithful Witness,” “the firstborn from the dead,” and “the Ruler of the kings of the earth.” To him who loves us and who set us free from our sins by means of his own blood—

Rosenritter may you have blessings from Paul and from the people who live in his house and from James the worlds strongest man, the Olympic athelite, the winner of the gold, he James made us enter into the trials for the worlds strongest man so that we could be henchmen to his Father and hero"

If you agree that "James" is not "Rosenritter" (in the above), then based on comparsion with Rev 1:4,5 (not forgetting that God in Rev 1:8 is contextually the God in Rev 1:1) then on what merit does your claim Jesus is somehow "the one who is, was and is to come" stand?

 

[NWL]

I had written to you:



Did you respond to this by saying either "Yes, I agree," or "No, I disagree"? No, you did not. Why not? Here is how you reacted to it:



Why couldn't you just come out and say, "The Holy Spirit is God", if you think He is, or, "The Holy Spirit is not God", if you think He isn't? Why did you choose to avoid doing so?

Next, you wrote:



So, you were willing to say that "God is spirit", but you weren't willing to come out and say, "The Holy Spirit is God". Why is that? Do you think that the spirit that you say God is is not holy?

Elsewhere, though, you wrote:



You stated, there, that the Holy Spirit OBVIOUSLY IS GOD. Now, one of your fellow Christ-hating heretics has written:



Notice that, whereas you have stated that the Holy Spirit OBVIOUSLY IS GOD, your fellow Christ-hating heretic has excluded the Holy Spirit from being the most high God. Interesting.

Notice, above, that you claim that the Holy Spirit is "part of God". What part of God would you say the Holy Spirit is, and how many other parts would you say God has? What other parts would you say God has, besides the part which you say the Holy Spirit is? List them.

I agree with Dartman here I believe. I have not been following your discussion with him, but from what I can make out I too would say the HS is an attribute of God(Gods active force) and is thus part of God. I would not say or call the HS "God" since I not see it as a separate person from God anymore than I would say "love" is God when scripture states "God is love". Love is an attribute of God, the same way I would say the HS is an attribute of God, the only difference being Gods HS can do whatever God wills it.

 

[NWL]

I nearly got to reading the end of your post before deciding to stop as all you were really doing is ignoring the scriptures and reasoning I was presenting with the repeated claim I was proof texting or taking things out of context without any real evidence that I was doing so.

FYI, not all claims need deep and long exegesis replies. You you claimed that Jesus was God who became flesh and showed me John 1:1 and John 1:14 as evidence of this you wouldn't be wrong in doing so to support such a claim, why, because the verse seems to support the claim and thus no further context is needed at the initial claim and supporting evidence.

Likewise if I make a claim or implication[ that Jesus is created and we are to worship the Father through him and provide scriptures that seem to place Jesus as part of creation and scriptures where it is commanded to worship through him then this is hardly bad practice deserving no response to other than "You're proof texting". To me, and I'm sure others, it simply seems like an attempt to ignore reasoning as you're incapable of providing a decent rebuttal.

Again, prooftexting. Ignoring the context of the passage in question, including the context of all the other verses in the Bible, will never lead you to a proper understanding of scripture.

My claim was that we are to worship the Father through Jesus, I used Phil 2:8-11 to support this. How does this verse not show all people bending the knee to Jesus but to the glory of God the Father. How exactly am I taking Phil 2:8-11 out of context as you claim?

Answer me, who does the glory ultimately go to according to Phil 2, Jesus or the Father?

(Philippians 2:9-11) "..God exalted him [Jesus] to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground— 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.."

(John 14:6) "..Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.."

Excellent verses that do, in fact, support the trinity, when looked at in context of the entirety of scripture, and cannot be used as a rebuttal to the trinity, as they are used as support for it.

In other words, I accept that those verses mean EXACTLY what they say.

And this is the issue, you're claiming the verses support the trinity and therefore cannot support my claim, the only thing is you never addressed or showed how I was wrong in my claim, so what you're in effect saying is "NWL is wrong because I say he's wrong and I'm right because I say I'm right", this is hardly a worthwhile discussion so far or a convincing argument from you end.

So then why is Jesus the exception? If he's just another priest, even another high priest, what makes Him, being another man, worthy of being worshiped?

Only God is worthy. If Jesus is not God, He is not worthy of receiving worship.

I already address and showed proof for this point but you ignored it. Jesus is the exception because God said he was the exception according to verses such as Phil 2:8-11 that show everyone bending the knee to Jesus as he has been exalted. Yes only God is worthy, hence why despite every knee bending to Jesus openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord its not to his glory but to the glory of God the Father as Phil 2:8-11 clearly shows.

Please provide scriptural support for the idea that the people gave worship to the high priest, who then took it to God, because I'm don't recall anywhere where God said for the people to give their worship to the high priest who would then give it to God.

I don't have the time to teach you the basics of scripture in detail,

(Hebrews 5:1) "..For every high priest taken from among men is appointed in their behalf over the things relating to God, so that he may offer gifts and sacrifices for sins.."

As you can see from the above, the High priest of Israel, who now is Jesus, offered up gifts and sacrifices on behalf of the nation. No person in the nation of Israel could approach YHWH himself, the high priest had to do it on the peoples behalf, the nation of Israel had to go through the High priest the same way we today can only approach God through our modern day high priest, namely Jesus.

He has become High Priest for Israel.

We in the Body of Christ DO NOT HAVE a high priest, as we are members of one body.

Christians are Israel, this again is a basic christian teaching, we have been adopted and have become Abraham seed (Hebrews/Israel) and become spiritual Israel.

Thus Jesus is our high priest.

(Galatians 3:29) "..Moreover, if you belong to Christ, you are really Abraham’s offspring, heirs with reference to a promise.."

(Hebrews 6:20) "..Jesus, who has become a high priest in the manner of Mel·chizʹe·dek forever.."

We Christians are the nation of Israel, namely Abraham's seed, have Jesus as our high priest (see also Romans 2:28,29 regarding gentiles being regarded as Jews)

Please provide the verse where it says that only the Father is to be worshipped.

You can't, because there is no verse that says that.

It DOES say that God is to be worshipped.

I already did, John 4:23 that states true worshipers will worship the Father without mentioning Jesus or the HS. To you, a true worshipers should worship the Father, Son and HS, John 4:23 rejects this idea.

Show us the scripture that tells us to worship Jesus,

Hypocrite. Weren't you telling me earlier not to ask specific questions like this?

I don't care either way, however, so I'll answer it.

There are no verses that tell us to worship Jesus, nor did I claim that there were.

No, the question you asked was specific as it has to fulfill more than one point, that question being "Show us scripture where God tells us to worship His through a created being.", in the question you gave I would have had to have shown a verse where (1) God was speaking where he (2) gave instruction to worship through someone/something with that someone/something (3) showing to be a created thing according to the verse.

My question is reasonable, where does scripture state to worship Jesus, only one point needs to be proven.

Thank you for admitting that no scripture states to worship Jesus and being honest. If we have clear scripture that expresses only God is expected to be worshiped, namely John 4:23, then how can you go above scripture and say that Jesus and the HS should be placed in John 4:23 despite it not saying so?

How have I taken John 4:23 out of context

By ignoring the rest of the Bible.

What parts of the bible show contextually that true worshipers should worship Jesus and the HS despite John 4:23 stating worshipers only worship the Father?

what verses am I ignoring as you say?

All the ones that disagree with your beliefs.

If you next response to this post expresses such a lack of effort to my points and questions like this one you will not receive a reply.

 

[NWL]

You specifically said that there was a point--"the point"--that you were "originally arguing". Are you saying that "the point" that you were "originally arguing" is "that [Jesus] is called the son of the most high and is never called the most high"? You weren't ARGUING that, you were merely AFFIRMING it. What, then, was your intention in AFFIRMING it? Did you not expect that which you AFFIRMED to be taken as a PREMISE of an ARGUMENT? If you did not, then why did you affirm it? What (if anything) was your intention?

The original thing I was responding to was a question RightDivider asked to another user, I responded on his behalf. The question RD asked was "Please give us the scripture that says that 'Jehovah alone is "the ONLY true God"

I then showed him scripture that show Jehovah being referred as the "only true God" and like scripture. My reponse to him:

NWL:(Psalm 83:18) "..May people know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You alone are the Most High over all the earth.."

(John 17:1,3) "..Jesus spoke these things, and raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father...This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.."

Some context... Jesus is never referred to as the "most high", only the Father is ever called the most high, see Mark 5:7:

(Mark 5:7) "..Then he cried out with a loud voice: “What have I to do with you, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I put you under oath by God not to torment me..”

Only the Father Jehovah is the most high God..

I was simply showing him facts of the scripture.

 

[NWL]

By telling us that, in John 4:23, there is "No mention of true worshipers worshiping Jesus", while telling us, also, that "I do worship Jesus", you've, once again, shown us your hypocrisy, and your irrationality. Thank you.

No, since scripture at times shows things in the ultimate sense, and other times shows explains in a little more detail the process of how things are completed in the ultimate sense.

For example, God created the world, I'm sure we would both agree on that, ultimately God created the world (Gen 1:1). Revelation is then given and further explanation is given on the process. That process being, the Father being the source of creation and creating the world through Jesus.

(Hebrews 1:1, 2) "..[God] has spoken to us by means of his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the the universe.."

(1 Corinthians 8:6) "..yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live..."

Likewise, John 4:23 is speaking in the ultimate sense who true worshipers were worshiping, namely the Father. Scripture later reveals that this worship is completed through Jesus, Phil 2:8-11, with that worship ultimately going to the Father.

(Philippians 2:8-11) "..More than that, when he came as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, yes, death on a torture stake. 9 For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground— 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.."

So when I say I worship the Father I do, on a more technical level I worship the father through Jesus. Most of the time I will leave out the detail and simply say "I worship the Father" since this is who I am ultimately worshiping when worshiping through Jesus.

 

[NWL]

Let's take a look at your duplicity, here. Out of one side of your mouth, you claim that you WORSHIP JESUS, but then you turn around, and, out of the other side of your mouth, you claim that you "worship God through the created man Jesus."

How, exactly, do you go about praising the Father as the Most High God "through Jesus", while you deny that Jesus is the Most High God? Do you say, to Jesus, "I will sing praise to thy name, O thou Most High--but, Jesus, bear in mind that I'm not calling YOU "thou Most High," because YOU don't deserve to be called that!"

What (if anything) do you think you mean by "worship [YHWH] through [a created thing]"?

See my post #487, I've answered this question. http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...Proof-Scriptures/page33&p=5311066#post5311066

Also, you're starting to ignore questions/reasoning I pose to you which if you answered would answer your own questions to me for you.

Does Isaiah 64:8 say that Jehovah is the Father, yes or no?

When every knee on heaven and earth bends to Jesus, to whose glory is it to, his own or the Father? (See Phil 2:8-11)

 

[john w]

I don't have the time to teach you the basics of scripture in detail,

(Hebrews 5:1) "..For every high priest taken from among men is appointed in their behalf over the things relating to God, so that he may offer gifts and sacrifices for sins.."

As you can see from the above, the High priest of Israel, who now is Jesus, offered up gifts and sacrifices on behalf of the nation. No person in the nation of Israel could approach YHWH himself, the high priest had to do it on the peoples behalf, the nation of Israel had to go through the High priest the same way we today can only approach God through our modern day high priest, namely Jesus.

That's rich, you pounding the table, asserting "I don't have the time to teach you the basics of scripture in detail,"


Don't bother, because you made up this "the same way we today can only approach God through our modern day high priest, namely Jesus."

No, only the lost need the Lord Jesus Christ as a their High Priest. Believers have Him as an advocate.


http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...KJV-and-clearing-up-the-fog-re-1-John-3-9-KJV

 

[Dartman]

Yes there is, a physical one; the imposition of hands, as mentioned in the Scripture, and as practiced today, and as practiced without interruption since its inception.

This is pure fiction.

 

[Dartman]

This post seems to be more of a statement than reasoning. Because of this I will ask the questions that were vital to my argument that you failed to address in my last post.

1. Could Adam rightly called "the first and the last" in the sense of being the first and last human that was made by God from dust?

2. Whose message was preached on earth according to the NT, Jesus or the Fathers message?

3. Who is ultimate judge according to Acts 17:31, the Father or Jesus?(see also John 5:22)

4. If the F&L is in relation to Jesus being Almighty God as in Rev 1:8 then how is it possible the "first and the last became dead" according to both Rev 1:18 and Rev 2:8 since God cannot die. Please do not say its speaking about his humanity as Jesus is clearly speaking in regards to his divine nature (according to your reasoning of F&L being the same as Rev 1:8 A&O the almighty).

5. Show us were "Jesus was not the first to be raised by God without a human prophet"?



You are correct, he isn't the last to be raised to eternal life, but the Father is not the one who will be rasining all others after Jesus to eternal life, Jesus is. So still, Jesus is the ONLY person who was raised by the Father himself, and also the last one to be raised by the Father.

(John 6:57) "..Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will live because of me..

Excellent points!

 

[NWL]

You say, "I do worship Jesus", and then you make the demand, "Show us the scripture that tells us to worship Jesus". Astounding!

You've taken my words out of context.

If you were actually following along you would have known that Judgerightly and I worship God in very different ways. JR worships Jesus as God directly, no scripture states for man to do this, when it IS stated we see that it isn't to Jesus directly but rather to the Father, I have stated this over and over to both yourself and JR. I worship God through Jesus as Jesus commanded and as scripture shows.

(Philippians 2:8-11) "..More than that, when he came as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, yes, death on a torture stake. 9 For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground— 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.."

So when I was asking JR to "Show us the scripture that tells us to worship Jesus, show us the scripture that states to worship the HS" it was in accordance to the discussion of JR proving Jesus should be worshiped along with the Father rather than be worshiped through said in the discussion as I was claiming.

 

[john w]

Does Isaiah 64:8 say that Jehovah is the Father, yes or no?

When every knee on heaven and earth bends to Jesus, to whose glory is it to, his own or the Father? (See Phil 2:8-11)

"That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Philippians 2:10-11 KJV

Romans 14 KJV
1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. 2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. 3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. 4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. 7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. 8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. 10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.



Survey Isaiah 45 KJV

1 Thus saith the LORD to his anointed,
to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden,
to subdue nations before him;
and I will loose the loins of kings,
to open before him the two leaved gates;
and the gates shall not be shut;
2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight:
I will break in pieces the gates of brass,
and cut in sunder the bars of iron:
3 and I will give thee the treasures of darkness,
and hidden riches of secret places,
that thou mayest know that I, the LORD,
which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.
4 For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect,
I have even called thee by thy name:
I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

5 I am the LORD, and there is none else,
there is no God beside me:
I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6 that they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west,
that there is none beside me.
I am the LORD, and there is none else.
7 I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the LORD do all these things.
8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above,
and let the skies pour down righteousness:
let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation,
and let righteousness spring up together;
I the LORD have created it.
9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker!
Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth.
Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou?
or thy work, He hath no hands?
10 Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou?
or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?
11 Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker,
Ask me of things to come concerning my sons,
and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it:
I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens,
and all their host have I commanded.
13 I have raised him up in righteousness,
and I will direct all his ways:
he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives,
not for price nor reward,
saith the LORD of hosts.

14 Thus saith the LORD,
The labour of Egypt, and merchandise of Ethiopia and of the Sabeans, men of stature,
shall come over unto thee, and they shall be thine:
they shall come after thee;
in chains they shall come over,
and they shall fall down unto thee,
they shall make supplication unto thee, saying,
Surely God is in thee;
and there is none else,
there is no God.
15 Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself,
O God of Israel, the Saviour.
16 They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them:
they shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols.
17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation:
ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens;
God himself that formed the earth and made it;
he hath established it,
he created it not in vain,
he formed it to be inhabited:
I am the LORD; and there is none else.
19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth:
I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain:
I the LORD speak righteousness,
I declare things that are right.

20 Assemble yourselves and come;
draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations:
they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image,
and pray unto a god that cannot save.
21 Tell ye, and bring them near;
yea, let them take counsel together:
who hath declared this from ancient time?
who hath told it from that time?
have not I the LORD?
and there is no God else beside me;
a just God and a Saviour;
there is none beside me.
22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth:
for I am God,
and there is none else.
23 I have sworn by myself,
the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return,
That unto me every knee shall bow,
every tongue shall swear.

24 Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength:
even to him shall men come;
and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
25 In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified,
and shall glory.

 

[NWL]

That's rich, you pounding the table, asserting "I don't have the time to teach you the basics of scripture in detail,"


Don't bother, because you made up this "the same way we today can only approach God through our modern day high priest, namely Jesus."

No, only the lost need the Lord Jesus Christ as a their High Priest. Believers have Him as an advocate.


http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...KJV-and-clearing-up-the-fog-re-1-John-3-9-KJV

How is it rich for me to say I don't have time to teach someone the basic teaching of the priesthood as detailed in Exodus and mentioned in Hebrews? I woke up today with 14 replies here on TOL and really do not have the time to detail things people who should already know the universally accepted teaching.

Jesus is mediator between God and men, he remains in place as high priest forever to continually offer sacrifices for our sins and sins of unbelievers if they accept him. There is no such thing as once saved always saved, Jesus remains between God and us to offer up sacrifice in case we do sin. This is irrefutable.

(1 John 2:1) "..My little children, I am writing you these things so that you may not commit a sin. And yet, if anyone does commit a sin, we have a helper with the Father, Jesus Christ, a righteous one.."

 

[NWL]

"That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Philippians 2:10-11 KJV

Romans 14 KJV
1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. 2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. 3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. 4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. 7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. 8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. 10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.



Survey Isaiah 45 KJV

1 Thus saith the LORD to his anointed,
to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden,
to subdue nations before him;
and I will loose the loins of kings,
to open before him the two leaved gates;
and the gates shall not be shut;
2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight:
I will break in pieces the gates of brass,
and cut in sunder the bars of iron:
3 and I will give thee the treasures of darkness,
and hidden riches of secret places,
that thou mayest know that I, the LORD,
which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.
4 For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect,
I have even called thee by thy name:
I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

5 I am the LORD, and there is none else,
there is no God beside me:
I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6 that they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west,
that there is none beside me.
I am the LORD, and there is none else.
7 I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the LORD do all these things.
8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above,
and let the skies pour down righteousness:
let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation,
and let righteousness spring up together;
I the LORD have created it.
9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker!
Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth.
Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou?
or thy work, He hath no hands?
10 Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou?
or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?
11 Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker,
Ask me of things to come concerning my sons,
and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it:
I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens,
and all their host have I commanded.
13 I have raised him up in righteousness,
and I will direct all his ways:
he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives,
not for price nor reward,
saith the LORD of hosts.

14 Thus saith the LORD,
The labour of Egypt, and merchandise of Ethiopia and of the Sabeans, men of stature,
shall come over unto thee, and they shall be thine:
they shall come after thee;
in chains they shall come over,
and they shall fall down unto thee,
they shall make supplication unto thee, saying,
Surely God is in thee;
and there is none else,
there is no God.
15 Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself,
O God of Israel, the Saviour.
16 They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them:
they shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols.
17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation:
ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens;
God himself that formed the earth and made it;
he hath established it,
he created it not in vain,
he formed it to be inhabited:
I am the LORD; and there is none else.
19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth:
I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain:
I the LORD speak righteousness,
I declare things that are right.

20 Assemble yourselves and come;
draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations:
they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image,
and pray unto a god that cannot save.
21 Tell ye, and bring them near;
yea, let them take counsel together:
who hath declared this from ancient time?
who hath told it from that time?
have not I the LORD?
and there is no God else beside me;
a just God and a Saviour;
there is none beside me.
22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth:
for I am God,
and there is none else.
23 I have sworn by myself,
the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return,
That unto me every knee shall bow,
every tongue shall swear.

24 Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength:
even to him shall men come;
and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
25 In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified,
and shall glory.

Why not simply attempt to answer the questions(on behalf of 7djengo7) instead of quoting large amount of text?

Does Isaiah 64:8 say that Jehovah is the Father, yes or no?

When every knee on heaven and earth bends to Jesus, to whose glory is it to, his own or the Father? (See Phil 2:8-11)

 

[john w]

How is it rich for me to say I don't have time to teach someone the basic teaching of the priesthood as detailed in Exodus and mentioned in Hebrews? I woke up today with 14 replies here on TOL and really do not have the time to detail things people who should already know the universally accepted teaching.

Jesus is mediator between God and men, he remains in place as high priest forever to continually offer sacrifices for our sins and sins of unbelievers if they accept him. There is no such thing as once saved always saved, Jesus remains between God and us to offer up sacrifice in case we do sin. This is irrefutable.

(1 John 2:1) "..My little children, I am writing you these things so that you may not commit a sin. And yet, if anyone does commit a sin, we have a helper with the Father, Jesus Christ, a righteous one.."

A High Priest forever for the lost, chump-not believers.

Believers have no need of a High Priest.


Take your seat.

 

[john w]

Why not simply attempt to answer the questions(on behalf of 7djengo7) instead of quoting large amount of text?

Does Isaiah 64:8 say that Jehovah is the Father, yes or no?

When every knee on heaven and earth bends to Jesus, to whose glory is it to, his own or the Father? (See Phil 2:8-11)

Read it-the LORD...............



Luke 9 KJV
26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father’s, and of the holy angels.

Take your seat-I only engage bible believers, not bible correctors/agnostics/mystics.


in his own glory, and in his Father’s


Isaiah 48 KJVa
11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it:for how should my name be polluted?and I will not give my glory unto another.

 

[john w]

Post #1408-The LORD of hosts:

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?131359-Did-God-become-flesh/page94

Isaiah 45 KJV

13 I have raised him up in righteousness,
and I will direct all his ways:
he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives,
not for price nor reward,
saith the LORD of hosts.

 

[john w]

Isaiah 8 KJV

11 For the LORD spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying, 12 Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid. 13 Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. 14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.


Romans 9 KJV
33 as it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


1 Peter 2 KJV
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 and a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

Deuteronmy 32 KJV
15 But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked:
thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick,
thou art covered with fatness;
then he forsook God which made him,
and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.

1 Corinthians 10 KJV
4 and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.




Isaiah 45 KJV

13 I have raised him up in righteousness,
and I will direct all his ways:
he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives,
not for price nor reward,
saith the LORD of hosts...............23 I have sworn by myself,
the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return,
That unto me every knee shall bow,
every tongue shall swear.



Isaiah 44 KJV
6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel,
and his redeemer the LORD of hosts;
I am the first, and I am the last;
and beside me there is no God.


Read it.....The Lord Jesus Christ is identified as God the Father's redeemer, the LORD of hosts, the same LORD of hosts in Isaiah 45:13 KJV, Isaiah 45:23 KJV, to whom every knee shall bow................

 

[Rosenritter]

"GJohn" was common in church literature of my denominational circle when I was (much) younger and I'm shocked you'd think I was being intentionally (even accidentally) disrespectful even in passing. There are many theologically connected words I do not capitalize, not out of disrespect but because those words do not have proper noun meaning to me; "god", "holy spirit", "christian" and "christianity" among others (though I do err from time-to-time and TOL's autocorrect function sometimes takes over). Also, I will often refer to the christian deity as, you guessed it, "the christian deity" and, if speaking to someone directly about their choice of deity, "your personal preferred concept of deity" because, in the end, everyone's idea of what constitutes "god" is theirs alone. I offend a few people here with my "style" of writing but you can't please everyone. The axiom, "No matter what you say, no matter what you do, someone, somewhere will be offended.", is verified every second of every minute, of every hour of every day of every week of every month of every year of every decade of every century of every millennia to infinity and beyond on TOL and around the world.

This forum does have its substantial portion of those that show aggression and purposeful disrespect. I apologize for mistaking you for one of those number. If possible I'd like to leave that behind now.

The Greek text is ALL capital letters. Who are we to define the metaphorical use of "word of god" as a proper noun, our own biased preference perhaps?

Yes, yes, the Greek text doesn't have capitals punctuation and so forth. Some here have a faith that besides preservation of the original text that the same power could also provide reliable translation., but aside from that it provides a useful baseline of what (pretty much everyone) accepts as the application of the phrase: "word of God" (not necessarily a name) vs. "Word of God" (a name or title).

In your particular case you may not believe in divine preservation of the scripture in translation, but neither do you believe in divine preservation of the scripture in its original tongues or even its primary divine inspiration to begin with (am I right?)

Regardless, when considering the instance in Revelation that says "his name is called the Word of God" (Rev 19:13) as you read that in Greek or what-not, would you also say that that particular instance warrants capitalization in English?

I reject your cobbled together explication of GJohn 1-18 on the same grounds you reject my analysis of GJohn 10 using GJohn 17.

That's nice. Everyone has their opinion.

Since I'm not entirely sure what your analysis is (let alone having grounds for rejection) then I'm not sure how this same rejection is applied to me.