Trinity Belief Is A Delusion

[Squeaky]

H


You have a very narrow minded view if scripture. His word will never pass away. I did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill.
The OT is the NT concealed and the NT is the OT revealed. If you can't grasp that concept then I'm afraid for you as you will lead more then just yourself into a ditch

I said
He did fulfill the law. And He taught us how to fulfill the law. Jesus changed the law.

Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
(NKJ)

Heb 9:16-17
16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.
(NKJ)

Heb 8:7
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
(NKJ)

Heb 7:12
12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.
(NKJ)

 

[JFish123]

Trinity Belief Is A Delusion

I said

You have one wild imagination. A Lot of people try to mix the old testament in the new testament. The old testament is obsolete. And if you don't abide in the new testament you don't have the right God or the right Jesus.



Heb 8:13

13In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

(NKJ)



II Jn 1:7-11

7For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

8Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward.

9Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.

10If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;

11for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.

(NKJ)

Interesting as you don't answer the scriptures themselves to say why there wrong. All you do is say the Old Testament is obsolete which is saying Gods word is obsolete. And then something about deceivers. You know I can say the same thing about you right? Still didn't challenge the scriptures. Can you? Hear I'll give you another chance, k?
Jesus is called Mighty God Correct?
In Isaiah, YHWY is called Mighty God as well as in Jeremiah 32:17-18.
Mighty God is translated from the Hebrew word Elohim which is a common name for God in the Old Testament. Elohim is portrayed as the Sovereign governor of the Universe.
In Isaiah 40:3 Jesus is called BOTH, YHWY and Elohim in the same verse:
"A voice cries: in the wilderness prepare the way of The Lord (YHWY); make Straight in the desert a highway for our God (Elohim)." This verse was written in reference to John the Baptist preparing the way for the ministry of Jesus.
Or perhaps this one...
Who is the "Lord" of Joel 2:32? It's Jehovah right? Since the "Lord" of Acts 2:21 was nailed to a cross, raised from the dead, and ascended to heaven, who, then, is this "Lord" of Acts 2:21? Obviously Jesus. Since Peter is quoting Joel 2:32 in Acts 2:21 as being fulfilled in Jesus Christ, what does it say about Jesus' True Identity?

 

[JFish123]

And let's throw in good ole John 1:1
Some people argue that since the second occurrence of theos ("God") in John 1:1 has no definite article ("the") it this refers to a lesser deity who simply has godlike qualities. But must theos ("God") without the ho ("the") refer to someone less than God? By no means!
The Greek word 'Theos' without the definite article 'ho' is used of Jehovah Himself in the New Testament with the exact same Greek construction used in John 1:1. Indeed, the "Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature" used in most Seminaries states the truth, that the word theos is used "quite predominantly of the True God, sometimes with, sometimes without the article." An example of this is in Luke 20:38, where we read of God, "He is A GOD, not of the dead, but of the living.
Some even claim that the phrase 'ho theos' ("the God") is not used of Jesus Christ in the New Testament, while in Fact, John 20:28, Matthew 1:23, and Hebrews 1:8 DO USE this phrase of Jesus Christ.

 

[Bright Raven]

I said
Well he might be deceived but he is still a brother in Christ.

Ah Squeaks, you know better. If you and I can go at it for all these years, a little jab from a newbie isn't going to bother me that much.

 

[JFish123]

I said

He did fulfill the law. And He taught us how to fulfill the law. Jesus changed the law.



Heb 8:13

13In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

(NKJ)



Heb 9:16-17

16For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

17For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.

(NKJ)



Heb 8:7

7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.

(NKJ)



Heb 7:12

12For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.

(NKJ)

Oh and for the record, you seem to not believe in the authority of the Old Testament as Scripture. However, JESUS had some quite DIFFERENT things to say regarding the Old Testament. Here is a brief list of some of what Jesus TAUGHT about the Old Testament:

Source of Authority
When confronted by Satan, Jesus appealed to the Old Testament as a source of authority by stating, "It is written," (Matt. 4:4, 7, 10).

Imperishability
"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished," (NASB, Matt. 5:18).

Unbreakability
"The Scripture cannot be broken," (NASB, Jn. 10:35).

Source of Doctrinal Authority
Jesus appealed to Scripture when correcting false doctrine stating, "You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God," (NASB, Matt. 22:29).

Truthfulness
"Your word is truth," (NASB, Jn. 17:17).

Historical Reliability
Jesus affirmed the historical existence of Jonah (Matt. 12:40), Noah (Matt. 24:37-38), and Adam and Eve (Matt. 19:4-6).

Scientific Reliability
Jesus affirmed that God created the world (Mk. 13:19, cf. Matt. 19:4).

Old Testament Canonicity
Jesus made reference to the Law and Prophets as a unit, "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill," (Matt. 5:17).
Jesus explained the Scriptures, "Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures," (NASB, Luke 24:27).
Jesus referred to the entire Canon by mentioning all the prophets from Abel (from Genesis, the first book and first martyr) to Zechariah (Chronicles, the last book, and the last martyr) (Matt. 23:35).2

 

[keypurr]

Thomas to Jesus: "My LORD and My GOD."
Signed sealed and delivered my friends

Thomas used the term Elohim for God. You might find this of interest

Elohim
Elohim has been a very confusing word for many people. The word elohim is used various ways in Scripture. It is not only used to describe the Almighty, but also individual pagan gods and even mighty human beings. Elohim may be translated as God, god, angels, judges, or even a human being who stands as God's representative or agent. For example, the sons of Heth address Abraham as "a mighty prince," the word for "mighty" being elohim (Genesis 23:6). Some translations have Abraham here being called "Prince of God." Take another instance. In Exodus 4, the Lord tells Moses that he "shall be as God" (elohim) to his brother Aaron. Moses will have God's words in his mouth, and will stand as God's representative before Aaron.

Here is a case where an individual human is called elohim. Again in Exodus 7:1, the Lord says to Moses, "See, I make you God [elohim] to Pharaoh." No one dares to suggest that there is a plurality of persons within Moses because he is called elohim, that is, God's representative. The pagan god Dagon is also called elohim in the Hebrew Bible. The Philistines lamented that the God of Israel was harshly treating "Dagon our God [elohim]" (1 Sam. 5:7). Dagon was a single pagan deity. The same holds true for the single pagan god called Chemosh: "Do you not possess what Chemosh your god [elohim] gives you to possess?" (Jud. 11:24). The same for the single deity called Baal.

The Hebrew language has many examples of words which are plural but whose meaning is singular. In Genesis 23, Abraham's wife Sarah dies. The Hebrew text says, "the lives [plural] of Sarah were 127 years" (v. 1). Even the plural verb that accompanies the pronoun does not mean Sarah lived multiple lives. The Hebrews never taught reincarnation or plurality of personhood. Another example of this kind of anomaly in the Hebrew language is found in Genesis 43. After Joseph wept to see his brothers, we read that Joseph "washed his faces" (plural). This is another instance where in the Hebrew language the plural noun functions as a singular noun with a singular meaning, unless, of course, Joseph was a multi-faced human being! The same occurs in Genesis 16:8 where Hagar flees from "the faces" (plural) of her mistress Sarah. These are "anomalies" of the Hebrew language that are clearly understood by Hebrew scholars who rightly translate to a singular form in English.

The better explanation is that the Hebrews used a form of speech called "the plural of majesty." Put simply this means that someone whose position was warrant of dignity was spoken in this way as giving a sign of honor. The plural acted as a means of intensification:
Elohim must rather be explained as an intensive plural, denoting greatness and majesty.

Whenever the word elohim refers to the God of Israel the Septuagint uses the singular and not the plural. From Genesis 1:1 consistently right through, this holds true. The Hebrews who translated their own scriptures into Greek simply had no idea that their God could be more than one individual, or a multiple personal Being! This is true too when we come to the New Testament. The New Testament nowhere hints at a plurality in the meaning of elohim when it reproduces references to the One God as ho theos, the One God.

Notes from Pierac

 

[keypurr]

And let's throw in good ole John 1:1
Some people argue that since the second occurrence of theos ("God") in John 1:1 has no definite article ("the") it this refers to a lesser deity who simply has godlike qualities. But must theos ("God") without the ho ("the") refer to someone less than God? By no means!
The Greek word 'Theos' without the definite article 'ho' is used of Jehovah Himself in the New Testament with the exact same Greek construction used in John 1:1. Indeed, the "Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature" used in most Seminaries states the truth, that the word theos is used "quite predominantly of the True God, sometimes with, sometimes without the article." An example of this is in Luke 20:38, where we read of God, "He is A GOD, not of the dead, but of the living.
Some even claim that the phrase 'ho theos' ("the God") is not used of Jesus Christ in the New Testament, while in Fact, John 20:28, Matthew 1:23, and Hebrews 1:8 DO USE this phrase of Jesus Christ.

See post 391, it's in ARAMAIC, the language that Jesus used.
You might find it interesting.

 

[Squeaky]

Oh and for the record, you seem to not believe in the authority of the Old Testament as Scripture. However, JESUS had some quite DIFFERENT things to say regarding the Old Testament. Here is a brief list of some of what Jesus TAUGHT about the Old Testament:

Source of Authority
When confronted by Satan, Jesus appealed to the Old Testament as a source of authority by stating, "It is written," (Matt. 4:4, 7, 10).

Imperishability
"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished," (NASB, Matt. 5:18).

Unbreakability
"The Scripture cannot be broken," (NASB, Jn. 10:35).

Source of Doctrinal Authority
Jesus appealed to Scripture when correcting false doctrine stating, "You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God," (NASB, Matt. 22:29).

Truthfulness
"Your word is truth," (NASB, Jn. 17:17).

Historical Reliability
Jesus affirmed the historical existence of Jonah (Matt. 12:40), Noah (Matt. 24:37-38), and Adam and Eve (Matt. 19:4-6).

Scientific Reliability
Jesus affirmed that God created the world (Mk. 13:19, cf. Matt. 19:4).

Old Testament Canonicity
Jesus made reference to the Law and Prophets as a unit, "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill," (Matt. 5:17).
Jesus explained the Scriptures, "Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures," (NASB, Luke 24:27).
Jesus referred to the entire Canon by mentioning all the prophets from Abel (from Genesis, the first book and first martyr) to Zechariah (Chronicles, the last book, and the last martyr) (Matt. 23:35).2

I said
Jesus brought over to the new testament from the old testament all that was needed. Jesus has the knowledge to know what to bring over. We don't. And here is what Jesus said about the old testament.

John 10:8-9
8 "All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
9 "I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
(NKJ)

Now if you keep just one thing from the old testament that Jesus hasn't brought over to the new testament you will fall from grace. And you will be subject to the whole entire old testament.

Gal 5:1-4
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
(NKJ)

 

[aikido7]

If the "Trinity" is seen as a delusion, then all theology is a delusion.

Perhaps the delusion comes from the fact that many Christians are "deluded" in thinking the Trinity is a truth that is named "Trinity." The "Trinity" is a term invented by men to serve as a "short-cut" to encompassing the qualities of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

If the "Trinity" is seen as a delusion, then all theology is a delusion.

Bingo.

 

[JFish123]

Still NO answer for any of my proofs lol

 

[JFish123]

Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason: “You, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one,” He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth … before Abraham was born, I am!” Jews who heard this statement responded by taking up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded (Leviticus 24:16).

John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “The Word [Jesus] was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.” Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. And this same verse declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!

In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did. There are many other passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus’ deity.

The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that, if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.

 

[JFish123]

“I and the Father are one.” (John 10:30)
He didn’t say that He was simply like the Father. He said that they were “one.” In verse 36, Jesus makes it clear that He had referred to Himself as the “Son of God.” Logic alone would tell us that the “Son” of God would possess the same deity as the Father. Man begets man. God begets God. The Jews, however, didn’t believe any of His claims. Getting nowhere with them, Jesus then focused their attention on the works that He had done and would continue to do. If He wasn’t God, He reasoned, how could He have performed all those miracles? He supported His claim to be God by saying,
“…that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father." (John 10:38)

During the Last Supper, just after washing the disciples’ feet, Jesus made a bold statement:

“You call Me Teacher and Lord; and you are right, for so I am.” (John 13:13)

The New Testament was originally written in Greek. The Greek word for “Lord” is Kurios, meaning “God—supreme in authority. Jesus was making the point that they were to follow the example (serving one another) set by God Himself. Later that evening, He reiterated His claim by saying to Philip,

“…He who has seen Me has seen the Father.” (John 14:9)

A Comparison of YHWY and JESUS to Show There Same Identity
Description as YHWY (I AM)
As used of YHWY:
Exodus 3:14, Deuteronomy 32:39, Isaiah 43:10
As used of JESUS:
John 8:24, John 8:58, John 18:4-6
Description as God
As used of YHWY:
Genesis 1:1, Deuteronomy 6:4, Psalm 45:6-7
As used of JESUS:
Isaiah 7:14, 9:6, John 1:1, 1:14, John 20:28, Titus 2:13, Hebrews 1:8, 2 Peter 1:1
Description as Alpha and Omega
As used of YHWY:
Isaiah 41:4, Isaiah 48:12, Revelation 1:8
As used of JESUS:
Revelation 1:17-18, Revelation 2:8, Revelation 22:12-16
Description as Lord
As used by YHWY:
Isaiah 45:23
As used by JESUS:
Matthew 12:8, Acts 7:59-60, Acts 10:36, Romans 10:12, 1 Corinthians 2:8, 12:3, Philippians 2:10-11
Description as Savior
As used by YHWY:
Isaiah 43:3, 43:11, 63:8, Luke 1:47, 1 Timothy 4:10
As Used of JESUS:
Matthew 1:21, Luke 2:11, John 1:29, John 4:42, Titus 2:13, Hebrews 5:9
Description as King
As used of YHWY:
Psalm 95:3, Isaiah 43:15, 1 Timothy 6:14-16
As used of JESUS:
Revelation 17:14, Revelation 19:16
Description as Judge
As used of YHWY:
Genesis 18:25
Psalm 50:4,6
Psalm 96:13
Romans 14:10
As used of JESUS:
John 5:22
2 Corinthians 5:10
2 Timothy 4:1
Description as Light
As used of YHWY:
2 Samuel 22:29
Psalm 27:1
Isaiah 42:6
As used if JESUS:
John 1:4,9
John 3:19
John 8:12
John 9:5
Description as Rock
As used if YHWY:
Deuteronomy 32:3-4
2 Samuel 22:32
Psalm 89:26
As used of JESUS:
Romans 9:33
1 Corinthians 10:3-4
1 Peter 2:4-8
Description as Redeemer
As used of YHWY:
Psalm 130:7-8
Isaiah 48:17
Isaiah 54:5
Isaiah 63:9
As used if JESUS:
Acts 20:28
Ephesians 1:7
Hebrews 9:12
Description as Our Righteousness
As used of YHWY:
Isaiah 45:24
As used of JESUS:
Jeremiah 23:6
Romans 3:21-22
Description as Husband
As used if YHWY:
Isaiah 54:5
Hosea 2:16
As used of JESUS:
Matthew 25:1
Mark 2:18-19
2 Corinthians 11:2
Ephesians 5:25-32
Revelation 21:2, 9
Description as Shepherd
As used if YHWY:
Genesis 49:24
Psalm 23:1
Psalm 80:1
As used of JESUS:
John 10:11,16
Hebrews 13:20
1 Peter 2:25
1 Peter 5:4
Description as Creator
As used of YHWY:
Genesis 1:1
Job 33:4
Psalm 95:5-6
Psalm 102:25-26
Isaiah 40:28
As used of JESUS:
John 1:2-3, 10
Colossians 1:15-18
Hebrews 1:1-3, 10
Description a Giver of Life
As used of YHWY:
Genesis 2:7
Deuteronomy 32:39
1 Samuel 2:6
Psalm 36:9
As used of JESUS:
John 5:21
John 10:28
John 11:25
Description as Forgiver is sin
As used of YHWY:
Exodus 34:6-7
Nehemiah 9:17
Daniel 9:9
Jonah 4:2
As used of JESUS:
Mark 2:1-12
Acts 26:18
Colossians 2:13, 3:13
Description as Lord Our Healer
As used of YHWY:
Exodus 15:25
As used of JESUS:
Acts 9:34
Description as Omnipresent
As used of YHWY:
Psalm 139:7-12
Proverbs 15:3
As used of JESUS:
Matthew 18:20
Matthew 28:20
Ephesians 3:17, 4:10
Description a Omniscient
As used of YHWY:
1 Kings 8:39
Jeremiah 17:9-10, 16
As used of JESUS:
Matthew 11:27
Luke 5:4-6
John 2:25
John 16:30
John 21:18
Acts 1:24
Description as Omnipotent
As used of YHWH:
Isaiah 40:10-31
Isaiah 45:5-13
As used of JESUS:
Matthew 28:18
Mark 1:29-34
John 10:18
Jude 24
Description as Preexistent
As used of YHWY:
Genesis 1:1
As used of JESUS:
John 1:15, 30
John 3:13, 31-32
John 6:62
John 16:28
John 17:5
Description as Eternal
As used of YHWY:
Psalm 102:26-27
Habakkuk 3:6
As used of JESUS:
Isaiah 9:6
Micah 5:2
John 8:58
Description as Unchanging
As used of YHWY:
Isaiah 46:9, 16
Malachi 3:6
James 1:17
As used if JESUS:
Hebrews 12:8
Description as Receiver of Worship
As used of YHWY:
Matthew 4:10
John 4:24
Revelation 5:14
Revelation 7:11
Revelation 11:16
As used of JESUS:
Matthew 14:33
Matthew 28:9
John 9:38
Philippians 2:10-11
Hebrews 1:6
Description as Speaker with Divine Authority
As used by YHWY:
"Thus says The Lord..." Used hundreds of times
As used by JESUS:
"Truly, truly, I say..."
Matthew 23:34-37
John 7:46

 

[JFish123]

Scripture is clear and True: Jesus is God. So let God be True and every man a liar.

 

[Squeaky]

Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason: “You, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one,” He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth … before Abraham was born, I am!” Jews who heard this statement responded by taking up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded (Leviticus 24:16).

John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “The Word [Jesus] was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.” Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. And this same verse declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!

In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did. There are many other passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus’ deity.

The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that, if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.

I said
All of that has been answered over and over. Here in post 2
Are One Delusion
The are one means to be in agreement. The same way that Jesus is in agreement with God, Jesus wants us to be in agreement with them.

John 10:30
30 "I and My Father are one."
(NKJ)
John 17:22
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:

 

[Squeaky]

Still NO answer for any of my proofs lol

I said
They all have been answered over and over. Again in post 2
Are One Delusion
The are one means to be in agreement. The same way that Jesus is in agreement with God, Jesus wants us to be in agreement with them.

John 10:30
30 "I and My Father are one."
(NKJ)
John 17:22
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:

 

[Squeaky]

“I and the Father are one.” (John 10:30)
He didn’t say that He was simply like the Father. He said that they were “one.” In verse 36, Jesus makes it clear that He had referred to Himself as the “Son of God.” Logic alone would tell us that the “Son” of God would possess the same deity as the Father. Man begets man. God begets God. The Jews, however, didn’t believe any of His claims. Getting nowhere with them, Jesus then focused their attention on the works that He had done and would continue to do. If He wasn’t God, He reasoned, how could He have performed all those miracles? He supported His claim to be God by saying,
“…that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father." (John 10:38)

During the Last Supper, just after washing the disciples’ feet, Jesus made a bold statement:

“You call Me Teacher and Lord; and you are right, for so I am.” (John 13:13)

The New Testament was originally written in Greek. The Greek word for “Lord” is Kurios, meaning “God—supreme in authority. Jesus was making the point that they were to follow the example (serving one another) set by God Himself. Later that evening, He reiterated His claim by saying to Philip,

“…He who has seen Me has seen the Father.” (John 14:9)

A Comparison of YHWY and JESUS to Show There Same Identity
Description as YHWY (I AM)
As used of YHWY:
Exodus 3:14, Deuteronomy 32:39, Isaiah 43:10
As used of JESUS:
John 8:24, John 8:58, John 18:4-6
Description as God
As used of YHWY:
Genesis 1:1, Deuteronomy 6:4, Psalm 45:6-7
As used of JESUS:
Isaiah 7:14, 9:6, John 1:1, 1:14, John 20:28, Titus 2:13, Hebrews 1:8, 2 Peter 1:1
Description as Alpha and Omega
As used of YHWY:
Isaiah 41:4, Isaiah 48:12, Revelation 1:8
As used of JESUS:
Revelation 1:17-18, Revelation 2:8, Revelation 22:12-16
Description as Lord
As used by YHWY:
Isaiah 45:23
As used by JESUS:
Matthew 12:8, Acts 7:59-60, Acts 10:36, Romans 10:12, 1 Corinthians 2:8, 12:3, Philippians 2:10-11
Description as Savior
As used by YHWY:
Isaiah 43:3, 43:11, 63:8, Luke 1:47, 1 Timothy 4:10
As Used of JESUS:
Matthew 1:21, Luke 2:11, John 1:29, John 4:42, Titus 2:13, Hebrews 5:9
Description as King
As used of YHWY:
Psalm 95:3, Isaiah 43:15, 1 Timothy 6:14-16
As used of JESUS:
Revelation 17:14, Revelation 19:16
Description as Judge
As used of YHWY:
Genesis 18:25
Psalm 50:4,6
Psalm 96:13
Romans 14:10
As used of JESUS:
John 5:22
2 Corinthians 5:10
2 Timothy 4:1
Description as Light
As used of YHWY:
2 Samuel 22:29
Psalm 27:1
Isaiah 42:6
As used if JESUS:
John 1:4,9
John 3:19
John 8:12
John 9:5
Description as Rock
As used if YHWY:
Deuteronomy 32:3-4
2 Samuel 22:32
Psalm 89:26
As used of JESUS:
Romans 9:33
1 Corinthians 10:3-4
1 Peter 2:4-8
Description as Redeemer
As used of YHWY:
Psalm 130:7-8
Isaiah 48:17
Isaiah 54:5
Isaiah 63:9
As used if JESUS:
Acts 20:28
Ephesians 1:7
Hebrews 9:12
Description as Our Righteousness
As used of YHWY:
Isaiah 45:24
As used of JESUS:
Jeremiah 23:6
Romans 3:21-22
Description as Husband
As used if YHWY:
Isaiah 54:5
Hosea 2:16
As used of JESUS:
Matthew 25:1
Mark 2:18-19
2 Corinthians 11:2
Ephesians 5:25-32
Revelation 21:2, 9
Description as Shepherd
As used if YHWY:
Genesis 49:24
Psalm 23:1
Psalm 80:1
As used of JESUS:
John 10:11,16
Hebrews 13:20
1 Peter 2:25
1 Peter 5:4
Description as Creator
As used of YHWY:
Genesis 1:1
Job 33:4
Psalm 95:5-6
Psalm 102:25-26
Isaiah 40:28
As used of JESUS:
John 1:2-3, 10
Colossians 1:15-18
Hebrews 1:1-3, 10
Description a Giver of Life
As used of YHWY:
Genesis 2:7
Deuteronomy 32:39
1 Samuel 2:6
Psalm 36:9
As used of JESUS:
John 5:21
John 10:28
John 11:25
Description as Forgiver is sin
As used of YHWY:
Exodus 34:6-7
Nehemiah 9:17
Daniel 9:9
Jonah 4:2
As used of JESUS:
Mark 2:1-12
Acts 26:18
Colossians 2:13, 3:13
Description as Lord Our Healer
As used of YHWY:
Exodus 15:25
As used of JESUS:
Acts 9:34
Description as Omnipresent
As used of YHWY:
Psalm 139:7-12
Proverbs 15:3
As used of JESUS:
Matthew 18:20
Matthew 28:20
Ephesians 3:17, 4:10
Description a Omniscient
As used of YHWY:
1 Kings 8:39
Jeremiah 17:9-10, 16
As used of JESUS:
Matthew 11:27
Luke 5:4-6
John 2:25
John 16:30
John 21:18
Acts 1:24
Description as Omnipotent
As used of YHWH:
Isaiah 40:10-31
Isaiah 45:5-13
As used of JESUS:
Matthew 28:18
Mark 1:29-34
John 10:18
Jude 24
Description as Preexistent
As used of YHWY:
Genesis 1:1
As used of JESUS:
John 1:15, 30
John 3:13, 31-32
John 6:62
John 16:28
John 17:5
Description as Eternal
As used of YHWY:
Psalm 102:26-27
Habakkuk 3:6
As used of JESUS:
Isaiah 9:6
Micah 5:2
John 8:58
Description as Unchanging
As used of YHWY:
Isaiah 46:9, 16
Malachi 3:6
James 1:17
As used if JESUS:
Hebrews 12:8
Description as Receiver of Worship
As used of YHWY:
Matthew 4:10
John 4:24
Revelation 5:14
Revelation 7:11
Revelation 11:16
As used of JESUS:
Matthew 14:33
Matthew 28:9
John 9:38
Philippians 2:10-11
Hebrews 1:6
Description as Speaker with Divine Authority
As used by YHWY:
"Thus says The Lord..." Used hundreds of times
As used by JESUS:
"Truly, truly, I say..."
Matthew 23:34-37
John 7:46

I said
All that is to overwhelm the people with confusion. That is called camouflage.. Go back and read post 2, 3 ,

 

[Ben Masada]

Trinity Belief is a Delusion.

Trinity Belief is a Delusion.

Can anyone give me a proof of evidence Jesus is not God? Or are you just on the defensive?

1 - First, the evidence: Jesus was a Jew and, according to his Faith which was Judaism, God is absolutely One and the Only Lord. (Deut. 6:4 and Mark 12:29)

2 - Now, the proof for the evidence: The Absolute Oneness of God:

Isaiah says that, absolutely, God cannot be compared with anyone or anything, as we read Isaiah 46:5. "To whom will ye liken Me, and make Me equal to , or compare Me with, that we may be alike?"

Therefore, more than one God would have been unable to produce the world; one would have impeded the work of the other, unless this could be avoided by a suitable division of labor.

More than one Divine Being would have one element in common, and would differ in another; each would thus consist of two elements, and would not be God.

More than one God are moved to action by will; the will, without a substratum, could not act simultaneously in more than one being.

Therefore, the existence of one God is proved; the existence of more than one God cannot be proved. One could suggest that it would be possible; but since as possibility is inapplicable to God, there does not exist more than one God. So, the possibility of ascertaining the existence of God is here confounded with potentiality of existence.

Again, if one God suffices, a second or third God would be superfluous; if one God is not sufficient, he is not perfect, and cannot be a deity.

Now, besides being God absolutely One, He is incorporeal. If God were corporeal, He would consist of atoms, and would not be one; or he would be comparable to other beings; but a comparison implies the existence of similar and of dissimilar elements, and God would thus not be One. A corporeal God would be finite, and an external power would be required to define those limits.

 

[Squeaky]

Scripture is clear and True: Jesus is God. So let God be True and every man a liar.

I said
If you really want to flex your intellectual muscles try to refute these verses. Because until you can do that, you got nothing.

One God and Father.

Eph 4:6
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
(NKJ)

Now if you want to be smarter than the demons, you atleast believe there is only one God.

James 2:19
19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe-- and tremble!
(NKJ)

Jesus is between God and man.

1 Tim 2:5
5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
(NKJ)

There is only one God.

Mark 12:32
32 So the scribe said to Him, "Well said, Teacher. You have spoken the truth, for there is one God, and there is no other but He.
(NKJ)

We have the very same God and the very same Father as Jesus.

John 20:17
17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"
(NKJ)

Jesus says the Father is the only true God.

John 17:3
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)

Paul says for us there is only one God the Father.

1 Cor 8:6
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)

 

[Squeaky]

If the "Trinity" is seen as a delusion, then all theology is a delusion.

Perhaps the delusion comes from the fact that many Christians are "deluded" in thinking the Trinity is a truth that is named "Trinity." The "Trinity" is a term invented by men to serve as a "short-cut" to encompassing the qualities of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

I said
Your right.