ECT Totton Linnet has a lot of opinions.

[oatmeal]

Good post.

Many have been called by God and have received the Spirit of God, but until they find the man Jesus in the Spirit of God then they do not really know the Father or His Son.

Making the scriptures fit their own opinion of God and His Son, is a folly.

One must come to know the Son of God and then allow the Spirit of the word form our understanding, before satan through men, implants a false view in the mind and distorts of the hearts of those who receive it.

LA

Our alpha and omega our beginning and end point of learning about what God wants us to know is scripture.

Those that say the the Holy Spirit will teach them read that somewhere, namely, scripture.

It is not wise, having read that truth, to assume that we can throw our Bibles away and just let "the Holy Spirit" teach us. If we were to do that and God were to give us the opportunity to correct that error, the first thing the Holy Spirit would teach us is to find a Bible and start reading it.

God expects us to read and study scripture. It is God's word, it is revelation, for all that scripture teaches us, the times we need direct revelation is only because we need something specific that God's written revelation to us does not specifically cover, but again, we know this because we read scripture.

When people give scripture the place it deserves in their heart, and really apply themselves to learn it objectively, the division so rampant on this website and throughout Christianity would almost vanish.

 

[revpete]

Your definition of pros is close, but does not tell the complete story. To be in social contact with someone does in no way imply identity. Are you with God? or against God? I am sure you are with God, but being with God does not mean you are God. You are with God, but you are distinctly independent of God because you are not God.

Logos, meaning communication or any of its synonyms is the basic definition, so leave the definition alone and work with that.

God is interested in communicating himself to us, and has done that in various ways, including scripture and His son.

Your bible was not with God in the beginning but God already knew what it would contain, likewise, God foreknew what His son would accomplish although the son did not yet exist because Matthew 1:18 tells us of his gennesis, his beginning

You, as most trins have done, have cluttered your mind with the trinity and precluded that the trinity is scriptural, you have put the cart in front of the horse. If you would actually clear your mind of your, yes, you, revpete, of the trinity, and simply read scripture for what it says, you would soon find yourself to be a "trinity denier"

I do not belittle those who have studied Greek because I too have studied some Greek.

However, I have seen people exalt their education above the clear reading of scripture.

Maybe you have too.

You have clearly demonstrated by the verses you chose that to define "pros" as "with, yet distinctly independent of" is a most appropriate definition.

My rejection of the trinitarian doctrine was the result of God's intervention in my life when I began to question the trinity and the associated theology that Jesus is God.

God clearly pointed out I Timothy 2:5 to me by means of another student. That verse absolutely pointed out that God is God, men are men and the one mediator between God and men is the man Christ Jesus.

Christ Jesus is a man, not God, not God the Son, not a Godman, not fully God/fully man, not a dual natured being, but a man.

All scripture that I have been present with since then has fit within that framework, there is no verse, although some did give me some challenges, that teaches a trinity or that Jesus Christ is God the Son.

John 1 most definitely does not teach a trinity, nor does it teach that Jesus is God, it does teach that the message, the logos was with God, yet distinctly independent of God.

Indeed, we must agree to disagree.

However, to suggest that I do not accept you as an individual is error.

I personalize all my posts to the one I am replying to. I most certainly generalize in many of them, but I am writing first and foremost to the one I am replying to.

If you do not see that, I am not to blame for that.

If you read some posts leveled against those who believe in one true God, you will find a great abundance of negative stereotyping. I know for I have been the target for a lot of that. Just read Totton's posts in reply to me in this thread alone.

Yes indeed. Let's agree to differ as this discussion can roll on and on
What you say about my definition of logos.... Well you know I would not agree. I have stated the case as scripturally and as clearly as I can using both Gk and context, I can do no more. I wish you well and perhaps we shall discuss another topic in the future.

Blessings: Pete

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Our alpha and omega our beginning and end point of learning about what God wants us to know is scripture.

Those that say the the Holy Spirit will teach them read that somewhere, namely, scripture.

It is not wise, having read that truth, to assume that we can throw our Bibles away and just let "the Holy Spirit" teach us. If we were to do that and God were to give us the opportunity to correct that error, the first thing the Holy Spirit would teach us is to find a Bible and start reading it.

God expects us to read and study scripture. It is God's word, it is revelation, for all that scripture teaches us, the times we need direct revelation is only because we need something specific that God's written revelation to us does not specifically cover, but again, we know this because we read scripture.

When people give scripture the place it deserves in their heart, and really apply themselves to learn it objectively, the division so rampant on this website and throughout Christianity would almost vanish.

That is true, yet the Bible is a handbook for those who want to walk truthfully with Christ.

Leaning from the Bible alone will never cause one to be anything but a Bible reader.

LA

 

[oatmeal]

That is true, yet the Bible is a handbook for those who want to walk truthfully with Christ.

Leaning from the Bible alone will never cause one to be anything but a Bible reader.

LA

If you only read a cookbook, you do get recipes, but no meals

If you do what the cookbook says, you could end up with some delicious meals.

Likewise with scripture, learning what it tells us is a good idea, but the aim of education is action, not simply education.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

If you only read a cookbook, you do get recipes, but no meals

If you do what the cookbook says, you could end up with some delicious meals.

Likewise with scripture, learning what it tells us is a good idea, but the aim of education is action, not simply education.

Yes, in learning a salvation doctrine does not make one saved.

Paul had an encounter with the Lord, not with the words of the book.

LA

 

[Totton Linnet]

The second rule of the book is love the brethren, which you guys along with meshak, Wierwille and no small number others of Unitarians certainly do not.


What went wrong?

 

[oatmeal]

Yes, in learning a salvation doctrine does not make one saved.

Paul had an encounter with the Lord, not with the words of the book.

LA

Paul was already a student of scripture, and evidently quite esteemed by his peers.

He had everything going for him, Philippians 3, but was a hard nut to crack.

He knew a great deal of scripture, but was not rightly dividing it. Had he connected the dots, he would have recognized that Jesus Christ was the long awaited Messiah, the seed of the woman of Genesis 3:15

His "sheltered" life put a veil over his eyes that disabled him from connecting the dots

Jesus Christ showed up to witness to Paul, Paul then connected the dots and rose up to believe and connect the dots and rise up to his potential and became the great apostle and teacher that he was.

All believers are in need of God's word, and it most certainly helps an individuals growth when they can learn from apostles and prophets and evangelists and pastors and teachers. Ephesians 4:11-15

Jesus Christ did those things he was a prophet, an apostle...

We are not in this alone, we are members in particular in the body of Christ, we are where it pleased God to put us. I Corinthians 12

We are all like Saul of Tarsus in some categories of life. We all need someone to help us to connect the dots.

Faithful men, holy men and women of God who live God's word, not just talk about it.

 

[oatmeal]

The second rule of the book is love the brethren, which you guys along with meshak, Wierwille and no small number others of Unitarians certainly do not.


What went wrong?

Sorry, what scripture are you referring to?

Could you offer a scripture reference?

It would help to take you seriously if you actually made reference to scripture once in a while.

Jesus Christ was not above referring to scripture.

Luke 4:1-27

"it is written" "have you not read?"

If you cannot show that your posts are based on scripture, why should I believe you?

Acts 17:11

John 5:39

II Timothy 2:15

We are to learn about God from

a. tabloids, TV, Reader's Digest, the newspapers

b. scripture

 

[Totton Linnet]

You twist scripture

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Hebrews 3:3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.

Hebrews 3:4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.

Hebrews 3:5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;

Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.



Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Hebrews 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

Hebrews 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.



John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

 

[oatmeal]

You twist scripture

Show me which scriptures I twist and how I twisted them.

Show me how scripture taught you how to learn scriptures.

Show me how you rightly divide the word of truth. II Timothy 2:15

Oh, wait, you do not refer to scriptures, you go by

a. feelings

b. what you learn on the internet

c. what spirits teach you

d. other, please explain using scripture

 

[oatmeal]

Hebrews 3:3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.

Hebrews 3:4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.

Hebrews 3:5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;

Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.



Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Wonderful verses.

Could you explain why you posted them?

I think I know why but why guess when you could show me from scripture?

 

[oatmeal]

Hebrews 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

Hebrews 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.



John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Again, wonderful verses, could you explain why you posted them so I don't have to guess.

 

[oatmeal]

Again, wonderful verses, could you explain why you posted them so I don't have to guess.

Saul to Paul,

I am still waiting.

Random verses? or you do have a point?

Or should I ask, do you have a point that you wish to explain?

 

[oatmeal]

SaultoPaul

Hebrews 3:3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.

Hebrews 3:4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.

Hebrews 3:5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;

Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.



Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Hebrews 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

Hebrews 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.



John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

You put some passages in bold type.

Evidently to support your conclusion.

Instead of coming up with conclusion too fast, how about we look at a few things you missed.

1. why did you not emphasize the passage, "Hebrews 3:4 For every house is builded by some man;"

Seeing that that passage precedes the phrase you put in bold type, might not this passage have something to do with the house and who builds the houses?

Which house did God build? Do you live in a house? Did some construction workers build it or did God build it?

What about the house the wise men showed up at in Matthew 2:11? Who built it? did God? or did a man or men?

House in your passage refers more to the people who reside in the house than the structure itself.

Who built the church?

Do you live in a church building or in a house?

Maybe you actually live in a church building, not a house?

Is a house different than a church?

How? Do you sleep in your church? So maybe you get bored and sleep in your church. Let me phrase it another way. Do you have a bed and closet and bathroom and kitchen and a living room in your church or is that what is in your home?

Is there a difference between a church and a house?

Does house mean house and church mean church?

Does place mean place and church mean church and house mean house? Are they words with identical meanings?

When you grew up did you grow up in your house or someone else's house?

Maybe when you departed from a friend's house, you said, I am going back to my house, or I am going home. Whose house what is? Did you build it? Did God build it? or did some man or men build it?


Is a city the same thing as a church? or a house?

Are you paying a mortgage on a house? or city? or church?

The Father has a house. Is it a literal house of stone and wood and concrete and 2x4's and shingles and copper plumbing?

or is it referring more to the inhabitants of the house as in the household of God? Galatians 6:10

Who does God say builds houses? Man does. I Timothy 2:5 God is God, men are men, the one mediator between God and men is who? The God Christ Jesus? or the man Christ Jesus? Was Paul wrong to call him "the man Christ Jesus"?

Did Paul write what God wanted him to write?

II Corinthians 5:18-20 who does the reconciling today? Jesus Christ is seated on the right hand of the throne of God. Hebrews 1:13

Hebrews 12:2

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Where is Jesus Christ? Is he going door to door to invite people to his home?

Who does the reconciling today? You and I do.

Who is building the church today? You and I.

What is the Greek word for church? Ekklesia, it means "called out"

Who is doing the calling? Yes, God is, but when is the last time God spoke audibly to someone who needed him? Does God go door to door inviting people to learn about God? Who invites people to learn more about God in your circle of friends? God? or you? or me?

Who is doing the legwork of doing the calling? You and I.

Who is building the church today? Not Jesus Christ, he is the head of the body, the church.

We have been given the ministry of reconciliation. What are you doing with it?

The word of reconciliation has been committed to us. Are you using that word to reconcile people back to God?

Who is building the church today? Who is doing the reconciling today?

II Corinthians 5:19 God in Christ do what they do. But we have been given the ministry of reconciliation, and have the word of reconciliation committed to us. Why?

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Why does the obvious meaning of these two passages elicit such a reaction?

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Why does the obvious meaning of these two passages elicit such a reaction?

Trinitarians translated the passages wrong as in many other places.

Try reading Koine greek and you will see what they have done.

Jesus Christ is not the creator.

Jesus is Gods son who is the firstborn of the new creation.

Jesus Christ inherits all things from His Father.

God is greater than Jesus Christ--

Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.


1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

LA

 

[oatmeal]

Why does the obvious meaning of these two passages elicit such a reaction?

Yes, it does, for it is clear that trinitarians have not read those passages for what they say, in favor of what they would like them to say.

Why did God give you the ministry of reconciliation and commit to you the word of reconciliation? II Corinthians 5:18-20

 

[Totton Linnet]

Yes, it does, for it is clear that trinitarians have not read those passages for what they say, in favor of what they would like them to say.

Why did God give you the ministry of reconciliation and commit to you the word of reconciliation? II Corinthians 5:18-20

You are more wicked than you think you are.

Isaiah says God is going to MAKE you bow your knee to Him and MAKE you confess Him that He is Lord, you want to mess?