ECT Totton Linnet has a lot of opinions.

[oatmeal]

You do not respect scripture...your supposed love of them is mouth only, anyone who treats John. 1. with the disrespect that you do has no proper awe or respect for scripture.

And I did quote scripture.

Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men and the weakness of God is stronger than men

For see your calling brethren how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble

But God has chosen the foolish things o the world to and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the mighty

And base things and things which are despised hath God chosen yea and things that are not to bring to nought things that are.

That Oatie should not boast in His presence.

But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus who of God is made unto us wisdom and righteousness and sanctification.

I am sure you have quoted scripture, but not in the posts that lead to this thread.

Did you quote scripture in your post in the OP?

No, you did not.

Do you have scripture evidence for the claims you have made?

You did not reference them, so why should I believe you?

 

[Totton Linnet]

You show no respect for scripture when people do give you the quote.

I said the great brains of this world reject the gospel as folly but the simple fisherman receives it with joy.... as do I.

How isn't that scripture?

 

[oatmeal]

Better than simply floating down stream with popular opinions.

Well, for all I know that is all TL has to offer.

Read TL's post I copied into my OP.

Did TL offer any reason for me to believe that her opinions are scripturally sound?

No, all that was offered was opinion.

As I remember it, one of the stipulations of the ECT is that someone believes that the Bible is God's word.

If someone believes that scripture is God's word, what greater authority would one need?

Why resort to opinions on this forum?

I have plenty of opinions, but what would it profit you if 95 % of my posts were only my opinion?

Will my opinion save anyone? No.

Will my opinion cause anyone to know God better? No

Does my opinion trump God's word? No.

Does God's word trump opinion? Yes.

 

[Totton Linnet]

The bible says the Logos was with God and the Logos was God.

Whatever else the bible says from one end to the other...this is the most crucial revelation...if you miss it and you do, you are not of the church.

 

[steko]

The bible says the Logos was with God and the Logos was God.

Whatever else the bible says from one end to the other...this is the most crucial revelation...if you miss it and you do, you are not of the church.

:thumb: See what I mean?

 

[oatmeal]

You show no respect for scripture when people do give you the quote.

I said the great brains of this world reject the gospel as folly but the simple fisherman receives it with joy.... as do I.

How isn't that scripture?

What scripture? Book of Limitations?

II Book of Totten's opinions?

Any evidence?

 

[oatmeal]

The bible says the Logos was with God and the Logos was God.

Whatever else the bible says from one end to the other...this is the most crucial revelation...if you miss it and you do, you are not of the church.

:thumb: See what I mean?

The bible says the Logos was with God and the Logos was God.

Yes it does the last two thirds of John 1:1

Who or what is the logos? Jesus?

If Jesus is God then, who or what is the logos who was with God/Jesus and who or what is the logos that was God/Jesus?

Is it then your conclusion that the last third of John 1:1 is there to tell us that God was God?

Whatever else the bible says from one end to the other...this is the most crucial revelation...if you miss it and you do, you are not of the church.

Where does the Bible say that?

Scripture reference please.

 

[oatmeal]

I am not any great admirer or upholder of the doctrines of the church fathers [so-called] I believe they fell into the trap that you have fallen into supposing that theology is simply a matter of applied human intellect.

Our faith is a revealed faith and a supernatural gift imparted to us PERSONALLY by God Himself, I scorn your intellect.

You miss ordinary common sense, it is child's play to understand that Christ's deity is proclaimed in His sonship, the only begotten.

The Son must be as the Father.

I say Weirville was a servant of the devil on a par with other cult founders.

I am sorry to say I don't believe you have the love or desire for God's word that you say you do....we have seen how you treat of God's word and it does not match your testimony. Jesus Christ is that Word of God.

I am being candid with you.

So are you saying that you don't apply your intellect when you read scripture?

You applied your intellect to learn how to read, you apply your intellect when you read other books, but not God's book?

What do you use your brains for, first and foremost if not to learn scripture?

How do know what common sense is if you do not use your intellect?

Is learning scripture a mindless activity for you?

If your intellect is not in use, how do you learn scripture?

What greater activity could you use your mind for if not to learn scripture?

It is logical that if God, being spirit, John 4:24, would have a son that that son would be spirit, not human.

However, God being love, I John 4:8, had a son that was not spirit, but human.

What does love have to do with it? John 3:16

A son that was strictly spirit could not be human for humans are born flesh and blood, not spirit.

Jesus is come in the flesh. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[Totton Linnet]

YOU will NEVER understand the way in which I read the scripture, not as long as you have got a hole in your bottom.

I simply read it....God will teach His truths as and when He wants to.

I read "In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God all things were made by Him and without Him wasn't anything made which has been made and the word became flesh and dwelt among us."

And I understand it perfectly, I know EXACTLY what it means.

You on the other hand seems to want to sit God down and teach Him what it really means, and how it does not mean what it plainly says it means.

Weirwille taught you that.

 

[revpete]

LA will stick to his heresy on Jn.1:1-14 even if it means denying the plain and obvious context and the unanswerable original Gk.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

LA will stick to his heresy on Jn.1:1-14 even if it means denying the plain and obvious context and the unanswerable original Gk.

Poor man.

If you had an encounter with Jesus Christ then you would be touched by His Godly humanity, perfected trough much suffering before he went to the cross, in particular before His ministry began.

You know nothing of it, because you rely on selected words of the book alone, filtered through your own understanding.

If you were alive in the time of Joseph, you would think Joseph was Pharoah in another form.

Those who were close to Joseph knew the difference. You do not.

You only know as the subjects of Egypt saw Him.

You are not privy to His private life, you have no time for that. He is too lowly for you.

Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.




LA

 

[serpentdove]

Totton Linnet has a lot of opinions...

...And they are in error. Somehow he thinks suffering means one doesn't have enough faith. :dizzy:

Take it up with the apostle Paul. He suffered more than any other.

"Suffering for Christ: Necessary in Christian living (1 Cor. 12:26; Phil. 1:29), Blessed privilege (Acts 5:41), Never in vain (Gal. 3:4), After Christ’s example (Phil. 3:10; 1 Pet. 2:20, 21), Of short duration (1 Pet. 5:10), Not comparable to heaven’s glory (Rom. 8:18; 1 Pet. 4:13)." Thomas Nelson Publishers. (1996). Nelson’s quick reference topical Bible index (p. 597). Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers.

See:

Shadrach, Meshach, Abed-Nego--and Totton Linnet

As a reminder oatmeal is number 16 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category. :burnlib:

 

[oatmeal]

YOU will NEVER understand the way in which I read the scripture, not as long as you have got a hole in your bottom.

I simply read it....God will teach His truths as and when He wants to.

I read "In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God all things were made by Him and without Him wasn't anything made which has been made and the word became flesh and dwelt among us."

And I understand it perfectly, I know EXACTLY what it means.

You on the other hand seems to want to sit God down and teach Him what it really means, and how it does not mean what it plainly says it means.

Weirwille taught you that.

What is it you are referring to

you have got a hole in your bottom.

????

There are some scriptures I listed dealing with the mind.

You may wish to consider how much God expects us to use our minds.

1 Chronicles 28:9

And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the Lord searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever.

Isaiah 17:10
Because thou hast forgotten the God of thy salvation, and hast not been mindful of the rock of thy strength, therefore shalt thou plant pleasant plants, and shalt set it with strange slips:

Isaiah 26:3
Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.

Mark 5:15
And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.

Mark 12:30
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Acts 17:11
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Acts 20:19
Serving the Lord with all humility of mind, and with many tears, and temptations, which befell me by the lying in wait of the Jews:

Romans 1:28
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Romans 7:23
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Romans 7:25
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 14:5
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Romans 15:6
That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 15:15

Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God,

1 Corinthians 1:10
Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

1 Corinthians 2:16
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

Colossians 3:2

Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

Philippians 2:5

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Romans 12:2

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Romans 8:5-6

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.


Ephesians 4:23
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Philippians 1:27
Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

It is very important to God that we engage our minds, our intellect, our brains to carry out God's will.


You certainly have a strong opinion about what John 1 is talking about.

I prefer to let scripture do the instructing.

John 20:31 tells us why John was written.

But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

There is nothing in that verse that teaches "the deity of Jesus" or a trinity. Maybe you never noticed that.

It does say the Jesus is the Christ, the anointed one, the son of God

I have yet to see you present any scriptures to substantiate your claim that Dr. Wierwille was a servant of Satan.

You accusations are at best, dependent on hearsay, not scripture.

 

[oatmeal]

LA will stick to his heresy on Jn.1:1-14 even if it means denying the plain and obvious context and the unanswerable original Gk.

IF, IF, IF John 1:1-14 were the only verses relevant to that subject, then there might be some leeway in understanding what John 1:1-14 is all about.

However, John 1:1-14 are not the only passages in the scriptures.

Are Jesus and God identical? No. they are not.

If there is but one point of difference between the two they are not identical.

Identical twins are not literally identical. There are two of them and they do not occupy the identical space at the same time.

Two people require two different spaces at the same time.

Of course, there are points of similarity between identical twins, and likewise for God and His son, Jesus Christ.

But the differences are immense.

For example

John 5:30 makes it clear that Jesus was powerless without God.

God is not powerless, He limits his actions based on whether people believe him or not, yet for the believer, he can do exceedingly abundantly more than we can ask or think. Ephesians 3:20

Jesus Christ did not supply the power to do the miracles, healings, signs and wonders that he did. God supplied the power, Jesus tapped into that power.

Acts 2:22 This verse is also one of many that makes a clear distinction between God and the man Jesus Christ.

When we see the differences between God and the man Jesus Christ, it is a simple matter to conclude that God and Jesus Christ are not identical.

 

[revpete]

IF, IF, IF John 1:1-14 were the only verses relevant to that subject, then there might be some leeway in understanding what John 1:1-14 is all about.

However, John 1:1-14 are not the only passages in the scriptures.

Are Jesus and God identical? No. they are not.

If there is but one point of difference between the two they are not identical.

Identical twins are not literally identical. There are two of them and they do not occupy the identical space at the same time.

Two people require two different spaces at the same time.

Of course, there are points of similarity between identical twins, and likewise for God and His son, Jesus Christ.

But the differences are immense.

For example

John 5:30 makes it clear that Jesus was powerless without God.

God is not powerless, He limits his actions based on whether people believe him or not, yet for the believer, he can do exceedingly abundantly more than we can ask or think. Ephesians 3:20

Jesus Christ did not supply the power to do the miracles, healings, signs and wonders that he did. God supplied the power, Jesus tapped into that power.

Acts 2:22 This verse is also one of many that makes a clear distinction between God and the man Jesus Christ.

When we see the differences between God and the man Jesus Christ, it is a simple matter to conclude that God and Jesus Christ are not identical.

Er I only used one if . Ok then you explain how the Gk of Jn.1:1 proves that Jesus is not God. Your post only proves that you do not understand the H.U. Then again you wouldn't believe that anyway

Pete

 

[revpete]

Poor man.

If you had an encounter with Jesus Christ then you would be touched by His Godly humanity, perfected trough much suffering before he went to the cross, in particular before His ministry began.

You know nothing of it, because you rely on selected words of the book alone, filtered through your own understanding.

If you were alive in the time of Joseph, you would think Joseph was Pharoah in another form.

Those who were close to Joseph knew the difference. You do not.

You only know as the subjects of Egypt saw Him.

You are not privy to His private life, you have no time for that. He is too lowly for you.

Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.




LA

Ok, you prove from the Gk of Jn.1:1 that Jesus is not God. Please no more worthless and pointless analogies.

Pete

 

[oatmeal]

Er I only used one if . Ok then you explain how the Gk of Jn.1:1 proves that Jesus is not God. Your post only proves that you do not understand the H.U. Then again you wouldn't believe that anyway

Pete

John 1:1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

It is a good thing that God does not require us to know Greek to receive His goodness and grace and love and light and the gift of salvation.....

Knowing Greek is a useful tool for clarifying vague or erroneous translations

The English is plain enough for me for the most part, although I do look up words in concordances and lexicons.

I have found that for some people their knowledge of Greek becomes a barrier to learning when they exalt their knowledge of Greek above the clear intent of passages.

For instance. "In the beginning was the word" it does not take an intimate knowledge of Greek to relate that verse to Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God"

In this first phrase, God is the word.

But what does word, logos, mean?

Even in English, word means word, it is not a reference to a person but has a variety of meanings.

A part of speech that is used to convey an idea.

Or it can refer to a message or intentional attempt at communication, as in, "may I have a word with you?"

Is the intent to say one word, if so, that person has already used 7 words. One word or a message? In this case, word refers to a message, the actual words used may vary but if the intent of the message is understood, then communication has occurred.

Logos has the meaning, not of a particular word, rhema is the Greek word referring to particular words, but to a message, not focusing on the particular words used, but on the intent of the words used.

For instance, "I will never leave you nor forsake you" and "I will always be with you" uses different words, in fact one is stated in the negative, the other in the positive, but the message, the logos, the meaning, the intended message, the thought behind the words is the same.

Likewise with the word, logos.

The message can be communicated in various ways. Hebrews 1:1-2

The message can be likewise communicated in ways that do not involve a human.

The writing on the wall in Daniel, it was written on the wall, but not by a human.

The burning bush that caught Moses attention.

The parting of the Red Sea communicated much about the care and love and power of God to His people.

Joshua stopping the sun and moon in the sky for about a day.

God cares for his people and those who walk with God have access to God's power in remarkable ways.

Logos means message, regardless of how it is communicated.

Have you ever read the poem that states, "I would rather see a sermon than hear one"?

That's enough for now. You need time to assimilate this post

 

[revpete]

Many words but none of the proof I asked for. Knowing Gk may indeed be a barrier for some but for those I know it is a great boon. You are right, logos does have other meanings but the context rules them all out. What John is saying is obvious to anyone with a genuine heart after God.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Oatie # 33 No, no you will never understand how I read scripture.

I believe scripture is God's word, I come agog, I come in awe, I come to sit at the feet of Jesus to read it and be fed, I come hungry. I want for Him to plant His seed as He will in my heart.

You come to it with opinions, pre conceived ideas and doctrines which run contrary to scripture. So you sit down with a view to make scriptures conform to your doctrines....You will traverse land and sea to find linguists and theologians to make the bible say what you want it to say.

You cain't simply open the bible and read and believe.

The bible is not difficult to understand intellectually. I understand what it means "the Logos was with God and the Logos was God and all things were made by Him"

But YOU don't want it to say that. That's the nub of the problem.

I use my intellect to believe and learn, you use your intellect to dispute scripture [and if you could] prove it to be wrong.

Suppose I come to a doctrine that is difficult to understand? suppose I read "who God foreknew He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son that He might be the firstborn of many brethren. Moreover whom He did predestinate He also called....justified....glorified"

This is a difficult doctrine to understand.

It is not I declare to you difficult to understand intellectually, it is very plain, it's meaning is clear. But it seems to teach something we don't like to think about God and His salvation.

The FIRST thing I do is I say "Father this is a very difficult doctrine for me to understand, I know it must be true for it is your word, Father won't you teach me what this doctrine means?"

Now others take a far different approach to the doctrines of Predestination and Election than I do.

We know how John Calvin read it and understood it [and I must say he took a similar approach to me] he did not immediately as others do throw it out in disgust, he did take the view that if Predestination and Election are taught in scripture they must be true. In that John Calvin does well and gets little credit for it, Calvin does a LOT wiser than those who read the scripture and who reject it in disgust.

He did not get the chance to do what I do, he was asked point blank and had to give a direct answer to the problem of what seems to be implied by the doctrines of Predestiny and Election. I think if he had been allowed time to think it through carefully and prayerfully he might have come to a more balanced view of the doctrines than he did. But he gave an instant answer. He was asked "If God has predestinated and elected us does this mean that He has purposely passed by those who are not so predestined and elected?" and he replied rather regretfully that yes it must be so....

I come to a different conclusion than Calvin but I come to an even MORE different conclusion to those who will not listen at all to anything about Predestiny and Election.

Why am saying all this?

I want to show you that the bible is not difficult to understand, we know what it says, what is difficult is BELIEVING it in simple faith, even when it says something contrary to our own opinion.

 

[oatmeal]

Many words but none of the proof I asked for. Knowing Gk may indeed be a barrier for some but for those I know it is a great boon. You are right, logos does have other meanings but the context rules them all out. What John is saying is obvious to anyone with a genuine heart after God.

Ah, so unless it is Greek.

English holds no validity for you?

Why do you post in English? why do you read posts that are in English?

Logos has only one literal meaning.

And that meaning is message or the thoughts behind the words used.

Any other use is figurative.

Words like rock, leaven and many others are used both literally and figuratively by scripture.

Logos is used for message. It also refers to God, for He is the message that He ultimately wants people to know and understand.

Logos also refers to scripture, for scripture is God's written message.

His son, Jesus Emmanuel is the logos as well, for Jesus Christ is that message in the flesh.

Jesus Christ was the perfect living breathing human representation of what God is all about. You study the life of Jesus Christ you learn about scripture and you learn who the Father is.

God had both in mind long before scripture was recorded or Jesus Christ was conceived and born.

God foreknew Jesus Christ. I Peter 1:20 ASV

God, being all knowing and having foreknowledge already knew what His word, scripture would say.

God knows how to plan ahead.