toldailytopic: What do you think of certain cold medicines having to be purchased at

[MaryContrary]

Mary it was not aimed at you it was aimed at the guy who has said that someone should be shot 67 time and kept alive a execution, and because he was asked to provide some proof of id for cough medicines that all users and dealers of some drugs should be given the death sentence within 24 hours.

I get the difference between people who are bloodthirsty and people who genuinely believe in the death sentence is a good thing. Knight is coming across as the former right now.

Please excuse my overreaction. I had a redhead moment.

Mindless Bureaucracy gets on my wick too, but the answers isn't to kill more people.

I don't want to have people executed in order to combat bureaucracy. I want murderers executed. Which would include meth suppliers and dealers.

Look, to be clear, I recognize the horror of this. But justice is horrible when it address horrible things. That this would be both just and save lives is what makes that horror palatable, maybe even worth celebrating. Certainly worth advocating.

 

[This Charming Manc]

I tend towards pacifism, I do however believe there are time when regrettably good men need to take up arms to confront evil, 1939 being one of them.

However it should be our last instinct not our first instinct, I feel with many here it is the first.

Do you?

You're entirely too quick to judge that anyone willing to violently defend the life of another must be a sadistic butcher of some sort.

Edit: You know, I'm sorry TCM but I'm sick and damned tired of people like you telling me and others like me that we're all sadists. I've experienced violence and there's nothing pretty, fun or thrilling about it. But I'm willing to suffer it to defend others because I love them and that's the loving thing to do. So do me a favor and give it a second thought the next time you decide to paint anyone who supports war, the death penalty or any other form of violence in the defense of others as sadistic maniacs, if you please.

Edit again: Yeah, I shoulda had that third cup of coffee this morning after all, looks like. :think:

 

[fool]

. I want murderers executed. Which would include meth suppliers and dealers.

So we should kill the people who make Sudafed?
This will really piss Knight off because he seems mad that he has to wait in line for it.

 

[This Charming Manc]

Its not quiet as black and white as that though is it?

Look at The far eastern countries who have 0 tolerance policy on drugs and the death penalty,

How many unsuspecting 'mules' who have been duped or conned into taking packages across border are executed? How many drugs king pins are actually killed ? Have we seen the trade disappear in those countries?

The death penalty sounds like a easy quick fix, but look at the countries where it used and see its effects?

Do you really want live in a country will a penal system as advanced as Saudi Arabia's ?

Look, to be clear, I recognize the horror of this. But justice is horrible when it address horrible things. That this would be both just and save lives is what makes that horror palatable, maybe even worth celebrating. Certainly worth advocating.

 

[MaryContrary]

Its not quiet as black and white as that though is it?

Look at The far eastern countries who have 0 tolerance policy on drugs and the death penalty,

How many unsuspecting 'mules' who have been duped or conned into taking packages across border are executed? How many drugs king pins are actually killed ? Have we seen the trade disappear in those countries?

The death penalty sounds like a easy quick fix, but look at the countries where it used and see its effects?

Do you really want live in a country will a penal system as advanced as Saudi Arabia's ?

I think you assume too much and I don't know why. Why would making meth cooking/dealing a capital crime require executing someone duped into transporting something unawares? Why do you demand that the meth drug trade completely disappear for the death penalty here to be valid? Why assume I'm talking about adopting sharia law or Saudi Arabia's criminal justice system (or whatever exactly you're implying there)?

And, for that matter, do you know why so few drug kingpins are caught, tried and executed in those countries? Because those drug kingpins wield the death penalty so freely against anyone who opposes or threatens them. And it works.

To be clear, again, I think it should be outlawed as a capital crime and implemented with a swift, just and public execution. All those factors (swift, just and public) have to be in play or the death penalty just doesn't work very well. Hence my advocating for all those things. That is what I advocate. Not moving to Saudi Arabia or executing people who were tricked into transporting poison because they're stupid, nor do I expect meth to completely disappear from the face of the earth. What I do expect is that most people who would otherwise cook and/or sell meth will be too scared to do so. And those that aren't and try to destroy people for profit with that poison, if caught, will pay with their lives to reinforce that fear.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

So we should kill the people who make Sudafed?
This will really piss Knight off because he seems mad that he has to wait in line for it.

:chuckle: You crack me up.

 

[Lon]

Wait until they hear about kids sniffing glue and spray paint!

(must be less addicting)

 

[This Charming Manc]

You laugh but you have to prove your 18 to by glue in the UK....

We have to lie to buy calpol night for out under 6's because of the Mccaans using to sedate there todlers.....

Its frustrating but I don't think anyone should die ......

Wait until they hear about kids sniffing glue and spray paint!

(must be less addicting)

 

[Alate_One]

Are you sure you do??? Luke 19:27

Quoting a parable out of context is no way to show the nature of Christ.

 

[Alate_One]

Indeed. Moron liberal's like you who have no problem throwing away liberty for dumb policies that don't work. That's what needs to be controlled.

Oh noes Knight was inconvenienced buying cold medicine, and doesn't like the idea of laws to benefit the common good. Obviously that means controlling the supply of precusors can't possibly work.

I'm for what works.

Lets find out with a search shall we?

Here's an article describing even harsher restrictions on pseudoephedrine containing medications, requiring a prescription for them. (Let me guess, you'd hate that even more?)

The Director of Mississippi’s Bureau of Narcotics says the state’s law requiring prescriptions for cold medicines containing pseudoephedrine, the key ingredient in methamphetamine, has reduced the number of meth labs in the state. In the six months since the law went into effect, the number of meth labs has fallen by 70 percent, Marshall Fisher told the Register-Herald. West Virginia is trying to pass a similar bill. The West Virginia Retailers Association, which represents stores including chain pharmacies, independent drug stores and groceries, opposes the bill. The group says an existing law that requires medications containing pseudoephedrine to be located behind the counter is effective. Oregon requires a prescription for the tablet form of pseudoephedrine. Since Oregon instituted the law in 2005, meth labs have almost disappeared from the state, the Tulsa World reported in June.

Source

Oh yes, I'm the moron here . . . :dizzy:

 

[Lighthouse]

Show me where Jesus says its our responsibility to kill main, injure or hurt in act venegence or retribution?

Romans 13. Or are you of the opinion that Paul didn't get his message from Jesus?

 

[Alate_One]

Romans 13. Or are you of the opinion that Paul didn't get his message from Jesus?

Uhh what Bible are you reading again?

I see this in Romans 13:

9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Now it also talks about obeying your rulers that it is right for them to mete out punishment and we should paying taxes to them.

But I see nowhere, in that verse, anything contradicting what Manc said.

 

[Alate_One]

And you offer this as effective while denying arresting, convicting and publicly executing meth suppliers as effective.

Public education can reduce drug use. Police actions tend to not do that.

So, if showing people pictures of what happens when you use meth works...how does showing people pictures of what happens when you cook/sell meth not work? You know, pictures of meth cookers/sellers being executed. That "public" thing I mentioned.

Please, by all means explain.

So you're serious about killing people for selling drugs? Why is it people that claim to be pro-life have no regard for ADULT humans?

China can't even stop people from putting melamine in the milk supply by executing those responsible. It keeps happening and people keep dying. People will take big risks when there is money involved.

And you really think, that we, in the USA should start killing people for selling drugs? Are you sure you're not on some yourself? Or maybe you should move to China where that sort of thing is standard practice?

And you right wingers claim the left is extreme . . .

We have one of those?

We have lots of those. You'd know that if you ever bothered to look at the literature. Of course having enough funding to find out what works helps too.

What does that have to do with enforcing the law against making and distributing the drug this public health problem relies on?

Publicly executing meth cookers and sellers all the more so.

Throwing people in jail doesn't work, we need to figure out what does.

 

[Lighthouse]

Uhh what Bible are you reading again?

I see this in Romans 13:

9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Now it also talks about obeying your rulers that it is right for them to mete out punishment and we should paying taxes to them.

But I see nowhere, in that verse, anything contradicting what Manc said.

For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

-Romans 13:4
​

 

[zoo22]

Liberty and freedom have logical boundaries. It should be common sense. Yet I don't even think any of this applies to the topic. To be honest I wouldn't really have a problem being inconvenienced while buying Sudafed if I thought for one minute it was helping the METH problem.

It does. The strictest pseudoephedrine laws (say in Oregon, where you need a prescription and it's highly tracked) have had a big effect on meth... While there's obviously still a meth problem, it's had a massive effect on local meth production. Kitchen labs. So there's much less likelihood that an Oregon resident is in danger of living near a homegrown meth lab, which is extremely dangerous. It helps. I'm for pseudoephedrine regulation.

 

[MaryContrary]

Public education can reduce drug use. Police actions tend to not do that.

Because the police actions we use are ineffective. I'm proposing what I think would be an effective one. Even more effective than public education.

In point of fact, a form of public education via police action. "You make/sell deadly poisons, you die." Much the same message you advocate for educating people on, the difference being mine targets the murderers and yours the victims.

So you're serious about killing people for selling drugs? Why is it people that claim to be pro-life have no regard for ADULT humans?

Why do people like you keep ignoring the answer when you ask this question? Pro-life supports, upholds, defends innocent life. Pro-death penalty involves, typically, the threat against that innocent life. If you were logical you would expect one to be for both of those things at the same time.

Maybe you're not really interested in an answer.

China can't even stop people from putting melamine in the milk supply by executing those responsible. It keeps happening and people keep dying. People will take big risks when there is money involved.

The death penalty in that case wasn't utilized the way I'm suggesting it should be. Swiftly, justly and publicly. It wasn't very effective for the same reasons the death penalty as utilized in this country typically isn't very effective.

And, again, setting the standard at the utter elimination of any crime is not a reasonable standard to judge the effectiveness of any criminal punishment. No criminal punishment can meet that standard.

And you really think, that we, in the USA should start killing people for selling drugs? Are you sure you're not on some yourself? Or maybe you should move to China where that sort of thing is standard practice?

You just repeated yourself, didn't you? See above, I guess.

And you right wingers claim the left is extreme . . .

Most right-wingers don't agree with me on this, as you know well enough.

We have lots of those. You'd know that if you ever bothered to look at the literature. Of course having enough funding to find out what works helps too.

Great. Show me a a scientifically based and tested campaign against drug use that can help and I'll advocate for that alongside the death penalty. If it's effective enough I won't even have to advocate for the death penalty.

Throwing people in jail doesn't work, we need to figure out what does.

So you look at education. Great, good job. It's good that you recognize one system isn't working and look for another that might. May I suggest the death penalty for meth cookers/sellers? It's kind of an amalgam of the two. A police action aimed at educating drug dealers and producers on the dangers of making and selling drugs in a country that outlaws that as a capital crime. Hence the public execution.

 

[This Charming Manc]

I'm coming to the conclusion that for certain people on here, killing more people is the staple answer to most of lifes problems.

If your solution doesn't include a certain body count they wont be interested.

It does. The strictest pseudoephedrine laws (say in Oregon, where you need a prescription and it's highly tracked) have had a big effect on meth... While there's obviously still a meth problem, it's had a massive effect on local meth production. Kitchen labs. So there's much less likelihood that an Oregon resident is in danger of living near a homegrown meth lab, which is extremely dangerous. It helps. I'm for pseudoephedrine regulation.

 

[zoo22]

Because the police actions we use are ineffective. I'm proposing what I think would be an effective one. Even more effective than public education.

In point of fact, a form of public education via police action. "You make/sell deadly poisons, you die." Much the same message you advocate for educating people on, the difference being mine targets the murderers and yours the victims.
Why do people like you keep ignoring the answer when you ask this question? Pro-life supports, upholds, defends innocent life. Pro-death penalty involves, typically, the threat against that innocent life. If you were logical you would expect one to be for both of those things at the same time.

Maybe you're not really interested in an answer.

The death penalty in that case wasn't utilized the way I'm suggesting it should be. Swiftly, justly and publicly. It wasn't very effective for the same reasons the death penalty as utilized in this country typically isn't very effective.

And, again, setting the standard at the utter elimination of any crime is not a reasonable standard to judge the effectiveness of any criminal punishment. No criminal punishment can meet that standard.

You just repeated yourself, didn't you? See above, I guess.

Most right-wingers don't agree with me on this, as you know well enough.

Great. Show me a a scientifically based and tested campaign against drug use that can help and I'll advocate for that alongside the death penalty. If it's effective enough I won't even have to advocate for the death penalty.

So you look at education. Great, good job. It's good that you recognize one system isn't working and look for another that might. May I suggest the death penalty for meth cookers/sellers? It's kind of an amalgam of the two. A police action aimed at educating drug dealers and producers on the dangers of making and selling drugs in a country that outlaws that as a capital crime. Hence the public execution.

But yours is a different conversation, Mary.

You can advocate the death penalty for all you want... For drugs, for murder, for homoesexuality, for improper sex, whatever (not saying you would advocate death for those things). That's a conversation. The death penalty. Okay. But this conversation is about buying pseudoephedrine over the counter.

To me, it seems insane that a product that is so integral to meth wouldn't be regulated. And the comments of "OH, what about the beakers... Should BEAKERS be regulated??" are just absurd.

 

[Alate_One]

For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

-Romans 13:4
​

Execute wrath does not mean kill. Execute simply means to carry out.

Note that neither the NASB version nor the NIV include the word execute.

4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.

This is the problem when you try to read the Bible in a single translation, with your own desires to make the text say what it does not.

 

[MaryContrary]

But yours is a different conversation, Mary.

You can advocate the death penalty for all you want... For drugs, for murder, for homoesexuality, for improper sex, whatever (not saying you would advocate death for those things). That's a conversation. The death penalty. Okay. But this conversation is about buying pseudoephedrine over the counter.

To me, it seems insane that a product that is so integral to meth wouldn't be regulated. And the comments of "OH, what about the beakers... Should BEAKERS be regulated??" are just absurd.

Well, I agree with what I think is the consensus so far. That inconvenience is well worth it if it has an impact. There's a question whether it does or whether it's just another law thrown out there for nothing more than the appearance of doing something. Something done not to address the problem directly but simply for the sense of doing something by exerting control. I think it works well enough to warrant the inconvenience, though. So, the inconvenience is acceptable to me.

Hence me general, "That said, what I think would be more effective is..."