toldailytopic: What can be done to help prevent the epidemic of school shootings?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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Alate_One
Well-known member
Just giving you the basis for their ideas. You don't like em, that's fine.
Wow, we agree on something.
Alate_One
Well-known member
How did the conversation turn to evolution? The thread is on school shootings.
Ask Inzl.
Christ's Word
New member
A number of things ought to be quite clear from the latest evil rampage.
1. Liberals are incapable of preventing active shooters from murdering innocent children in these mass murder school shootings. This problem is too hard for them to solve.
2. The number of innocent victims killed in the U.S. by active shooters at gun shows is still ZERO.
3. The perpetrators of this type of evil are not crazy, they are logical enough to choose targets that are crowded with people, even children, incapable of defending themselves. (See point #2 above)
4. Really bad things happen to nice people in nice towns, not just inner city locals.
5. Remaining stationary during an active shooting makes you an easier target to hit with a firearm.
6. Israeli teachers and Irish teachers are trained to protect their children and they are armed.
7. Small numbers of untrained women should never be charged with protecting large groups of our most precious earthly beings, our children.
8. We guard our fissionable material, our gold, our subs, our jets, our power plants, and our borders with armed professionals........why not our children in school?
So what to do?
1. Pay the Principals and the Vice Principals a little lower six figure salary, and put armed professionals (minimum of at least three), in every school. Do it now, before the copy cats start up.
2. Biometric entry, not security badges.
3. Lexan outer windows.
4. Parents with troubled younger males (7 to 27) keep your guns locked in a safe, or at a relatives home, locked in their safe.
5. Train responsible, athletic teachers to use a firearm.
1. Liberals are incapable of preventing active shooters from murdering innocent children in these mass murder school shootings. This problem is too hard for them to solve.
2. The number of innocent victims killed in the U.S. by active shooters at gun shows is still ZERO.
3. The perpetrators of this type of evil are not crazy, they are logical enough to choose targets that are crowded with people, even children, incapable of defending themselves. (See point #2 above)
4. Really bad things happen to nice people in nice towns, not just inner city locals.
5. Remaining stationary during an active shooting makes you an easier target to hit with a firearm.
6. Israeli teachers and Irish teachers are trained to protect their children and they are armed.
7. Small numbers of untrained women should never be charged with protecting large groups of our most precious earthly beings, our children.
8. We guard our fissionable material, our gold, our subs, our jets, our power plants, and our borders with armed professionals........why not our children in school?
So what to do?
1. Pay the Principals and the Vice Principals a little lower six figure salary, and put armed professionals (minimum of at least three), in every school. Do it now, before the copy cats start up.
2. Biometric entry, not security badges.
3. Lexan outer windows.
4. Parents with troubled younger males (7 to 27) keep your guns locked in a safe, or at a relatives home, locked in their safe.
5. Train responsible, athletic teachers to use a firearm.
In the evolutionists world, "Irrelevant" = "I don't like it". :dizzy:
Dena
New member
If the reality of life leads you to believe there is no room for morals then you are the one with some issues.
No, that's you replacing reason with dogma, but you should get the larger point, hopefully.
"Stay on target."
That's not an educational purpose. It's like suggesting that fire alarms serve an educational purpose. You're bastardizing the term or making it irrelevant, but again, try the point.
No, I corrected that already. Either you said the same thing or you failed to cover part of what I said. The latter is true.
Not absent significant training, as noted. Putting guns in hands otherwise may make you feel better, but absent that training it's fool's gold.
In order, not to my knowledge and yes. Given the latter is something we can address by public policy let's stay with the latter. There was a scheme in place, introduced by the late principle, to make entrance into that school difficult for anyone who didn't belong there. It failed to protect her or those children and it's obvious that more needs to be done.
I've said more than once now that it might now be necessary to sweep a campus before anyone is allowed in during the morning and then keep an armed, trained officer in place to keep that sort of failure from producing deadly results. It's not fullproof, but it's reasonable as a response.
Your remarks didn't lend themselves to that in my reading but good to hear.
No, without intense and meaningful training that's a horrible idea.
No one is doing that, Trad. The point of laws is twofold, as I've noted, to dissuade the law abiding and/or those who might not be but who note the penalty is too steep for the satisfaction of ignoring the law's benefit and to set in place the punitive measures for violating the law.
Of course. That's why we still hire police even when we have laws in place against criminal conduct.
Or person, depending (see: my former).
No. They have that training because it makes them more effective against any opponent, organized and well armed or not, trained or untrained.
I doubt they would have had you been in that theater with shots ringing out and confusion all around you, panic and adrenaline in the air. Police receive different but effective training. Soldiers receive better training in larger tactical responses and receive better training in responding to the stress of combat, which is comparable in terms of physiological response, to what happened in that theater or school. But the police training should be the absolute minimum permitted anyone with a gun around children. And I'd prefer for it to be a policeman.
No. They had a significant tactical advantage. And that's what we're talking about addressing.
Then you aren't really listening to me. Guns, without serious and sustained training, will as likely contribute to additional carnage as prevent any. So no, the solution isn't to arm people but to arm people who can effectively utilize those arms.
Your understanding is incorrect. I once carried a concealed weapon because I was a courier for my family in relation to a few businesses that moved large amounts of cash. I had a clean record and a clear need and impeccable references. Now I was at that point a qualified marksman through ROTC, but that didn't factor. It may in different jurisdictions, but in ours it didn't. In any event I've told you why not.
What happens to you when adrenaline is pouring through you and your mouth is dry with fear from the threat of lethal violence greatly impacts your ability to function with that weapon. That's why soldiers and, to a lesser extent, the police are drilled to respond in situations where that's in play. You can certify to safety and be an excellent course marksman and it's not going to prepare you adequately for what happened in that school. And if you aren't prepared and you have a weapon you're a threat yourself.
Dena
New member
My husband took a concealed carry class with a man last year who didn't know how to use the gun he himself owned. They did a little bit of training but not much. At the end of the day the man then couldn't even take the test on his own because he was not able to read. I can't remember if he passed the test. I'll have to remember to ask my husband tomorrow. At any rate, he had no clue how to handle his gun even in a calm situation.
gcthomas
New member
Irish teachers are not armed and never have been. There is no culture of carrying weapons. Even in Israel, the teachers are not armed. There are some pictures doing the rounds on the Internet showing a class out on a trip in he West Bank with an armed guard or a soldier in attendance, but the West Bank is not typical, even for Israel.
Where in the world are teachers routinely armed in the classroom? Anywhere?
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What can be done to predict the epidemic of school shootings?
The same thing being done to prevent the epidemic of bear attacks.
For the same reason.
There is no "epidemic of school shootings."
Seven shot dead at an Oakland college this week. A private school headmistress gunned down last month in Florida by a teacher she fired, who then kills himself. Three Ohio teens killed by another high school student in February.
Judging by the media attention lavished on the recent shooting rampage that left seven dead in Oakland, Calif., and other attacks over the past several years, it would seem America is embroiled in an ever-increasing chaos of school shootings. But statistics show it is not.
This nation still has more fatal school shootings than others. But after surging in the early 2000s following the 1999 slaughter of 13 people at Columbine High School in Colorado, the number has plummeted from a high of more than 50 in 2004 to roughly a dozen in 2010, according to recent figures compiled from several sources, including the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics.
http://www.standard.net/stories/2012/04/05/school-shootings-violence-actually-decline-us
Actual school deaths, broken out by male/female student:
The number was never very large, but of course new security procedures have brought even that small number down. And we can do even better. Calling a decline "an epidemic", is counterproductive.
And while there's always symptoms in retrospect that one can point to, there are millions of others with the same pathology who never do anything violent to anyone. The latest was a kid from a prosperous family, broken home. His mother had some kind of dissatisfaction with the school, and pulled him out to home school him.
And something went wrong. So he killed a lot of people. You can't lock up every person who might fit a profile. We can't make society perfectly safe.
But it would be sensible to know what an "epidemic" is.
The same thing being done to prevent the epidemic of bear attacks.
For the same reason.
There is no "epidemic of school shootings."
Seven shot dead at an Oakland college this week. A private school headmistress gunned down last month in Florida by a teacher she fired, who then kills himself. Three Ohio teens killed by another high school student in February.
Judging by the media attention lavished on the recent shooting rampage that left seven dead in Oakland, Calif., and other attacks over the past several years, it would seem America is embroiled in an ever-increasing chaos of school shootings. But statistics show it is not.
This nation still has more fatal school shootings than others. But after surging in the early 2000s following the 1999 slaughter of 13 people at Columbine High School in Colorado, the number has plummeted from a high of more than 50 in 2004 to roughly a dozen in 2010, according to recent figures compiled from several sources, including the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics.
http://www.standard.net/stories/2012/04/05/school-shootings-violence-actually-decline-us
Actual school deaths, broken out by male/female student:
The number was never very large, but of course new security procedures have brought even that small number down. And we can do even better. Calling a decline "an epidemic", is counterproductive.
And while there's always symptoms in retrospect that one can point to, there are millions of others with the same pathology who never do anything violent to anyone. The latest was a kid from a prosperous family, broken home. His mother had some kind of dissatisfaction with the school, and pulled him out to home school him.
And something went wrong. So he killed a lot of people. You can't lock up every person who might fit a profile. We can't make society perfectly safe.
But it would be sensible to know what an "epidemic" is.
What can be done to predict the epidemic of school shootings?
The same thing being done to prevent the epidemic of bear attacks.
For the same reason.
There is no "epidemic of school shootings."
Seven shot dead at an Oakland college this week. A private school headmistress gunned down last month in Florida by a teacher she fired, who then kills himself. Three Ohio teens killed by another high school student in February.
Judging by the media attention lavished on the recent shooting rampage that left seven dead in Oakland, Calif., and other attacks over the past several years, it would seem America is embroiled in an ever-increasing chaos of school shootings. But statistics show it is not.
This nation still has more fatal school shootings than others. But after surging in the early 2000s following the 1999 slaughter of 13 people at Columbine High School in Colorado, the number has plummeted from a high of more than 50 in 2004 to roughly a dozen in 2010, according to recent figures compiled from several sources, including the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics.
http://www.standard.net/stories/2012/04/05/school-shootings-violence-actually-decline-us
Actual school deaths, broken out by male/female student:
The number was never very large, but of course new security procedures have brought even that small number down. And we can do even better. Calling a decline "an epidemic", is counterproductive.
And while there's always symptoms in retrospect that one can point to, there are millions of others with the same pathology who never do anything violent to anyone. The latest was a kid from a prosperous family, broken home. His mother had some kind of dissatisfaction with the school, and pulled him out to home school him.
And something went wrong. So he killed a lot of people. You can't lock up every person who might fit a profile. We can't make society perfectly safe.
But it would be sensible to know what an "epidemic" is.
I also feel that these murderers should be given the barest media coverage necessary to relate the facts. Delving into their histories and parenting and mental health ought not be made public.
It serves no real purpose. The one thing we have learned, is that these rare outburst of violence cannot be predicted. But the public has some need to make sense out of it, which is why the media feed their hunger for details.
Christ's Word
New member
The number of shooting deaths with 3 guns on sight for less than an hour at the school = 27
The number of shooting deaths with over 200 guns on sight at the school for 5 hours = 0
It appears schools need more guns on sight to keep the evil ones from showing up and shooting innocent children.
Liberals can't handle truth or facts, and are incapable of defending our children or finding a real solution.
The number of shooting deaths with over 200 guns on sight at the school for 5 hours = 0
It appears schools need more guns on sight to keep the evil ones from showing up and shooting innocent children.
Liberals can't handle truth or facts, and are incapable of defending our children or finding a real solution.
You left out: number of shooting deaths at schools on a Saturday= 0
So obviously the solution is to have classes only on Saturday.
No, it just appears Sam Clemens was right about statistics.
Which is why every school system has this sort of tragedy in it...I mean most...well, an impressively large minority then...well.
lain:More can be done. More should be. We have to learn from tragedies like this one. There are any number of reasonable responses. Arming untrained teachers isn't one of them.
I have no problem with that. Gun or no gun you would think the school system would want to provide significant training for such an occurrence. I am not sure what kind of training would help, that didn't involve returning fire, but you would think they would want to try provide it.
Where is Godrulz in this thread? :idunno: Looks like here's over there contributing more RandomThoughts.
Will he speak with us about the doctrine of sin? Sin seems to be more than what he would have us believe it is.
"You cannot understand the solution to the problem unless you understand the problem. You can't understand the cure unless you understand the diagnosis. You will never be able to understand God's remedy for this world if you don't understand the malady under which this world lives and functions..." Full text: What is Sin? by John MacArthur
See:
Godrulz
Will he speak with us about the doctrine of sin? Sin seems to be more than what he would have us believe it is.
"You cannot understand the solution to the problem unless you understand the problem. You can't understand the cure unless you understand the diagnosis. You will never be able to understand God's remedy for this world if you don't understand the malady under which this world lives and functions..." Full text: What is Sin? by John MacArthur
See:
Godrulz
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:thumb: Though I think the better measure would be to have a constant police presence and for the following reason: a school teacher can't be going about with a gun on hip or lying on her or his desk. It invites tragedy given their concentration is required elsewhere in any number of situations. It presents an invitation and a slowed response time. An officer, whose single task would be to move about the school or to observe and respond from a position allowing him to monitor the area would be the better fit to my mind.
Couldn't agree more. And make the classrooms capable of becoming safe rooms should something begin in a school. There's a lot that can be done.
There's no real substitute for the experience, but there are serious programs in place to come as close as you can to it.
Since 1996, there have been 58 multiple shootings in schools in the United States, about 3.6 such incidents per year.
In 2010, there were 98,817 public schools in the United States.
So the annual risk of being in a school with such a shooting would be roughly 0.00003. Somewhat greater than being caught in a tornado, but there are about 49.8 million public school students in the United States.
The likelihood of being actually shot in a school shooting is well under one in a million.
So what? So arming teachers introduces the risk of accidents which is much, much higher than the likelihood of an intruder or a student shooting someone in a public school. In 1988, about 1500 people died from accidental discharge of firearms.
So arming teachers would be trying to protect against a very small risk, by introducing a much greater one. Not that reason has much to do with the issue for most people, but if safety of children matters to you, you will be opposed to bringing guns into schools.
In 2010, there were 98,817 public schools in the United States.
So the annual risk of being in a school with such a shooting would be roughly 0.00003. Somewhat greater than being caught in a tornado, but there are about 49.8 million public school students in the United States.
The likelihood of being actually shot in a school shooting is well under one in a million.
So what? So arming teachers introduces the risk of accidents which is much, much higher than the likelihood of an intruder or a student shooting someone in a public school. In 1988, about 1500 people died from accidental discharge of firearms.
So arming teachers would be trying to protect against a very small risk, by introducing a much greater one. Not that reason has much to do with the issue for most people, but if safety of children matters to you, you will be opposed to bringing guns into schools.
Notice the interviews of kids from the school shows that teachers quickly acted to protect their students. One remarked that they heard a noise, after which the teacher checked the hallway, secured the door, and had the students crouch in a corner of the room. Such actions might well have reduced the number of people shot.
All districts I know about, train teachers for these events.
jeremysdemo
New member
I agree about the mental health aspects not being made public,
but I do think it should be delved into extensively and every aspect documented by professionals for future reference.
keep shinin
jerm