toldailytopic: Were you for or against your mother's right to terminate you?

[surrender]

thanks for sharing that

do you think abortion should be legal?

No, I don't think abortion should be legal.

 

[oatmeal]

Trick question!

:doh:

Why do evolutionists always look for some trait in order to define personhood? Nervous systems, brain waves, heart beats, lack of physical defect, skin colour, nationality...

Well, duh! :duh:

More importantly, the truth is available.

And that truth is?

Genesis 2:7?

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

When did the first man become a living soul?

What does the expression, "he took his last breath" mean?

If the last breath precedes and is sufficient cause for death, what does the first breath signify?

oatmeal

 

[surrender]

Since it can't be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that life doesn't begin at conception, I'd rather error on the side of pro-life. Besides, Jesus came to save lives. I don't believe the Creator and Giver of Life would support abortion. When I stand before God to give an account, these are the things I will give as my reasons. I was given the right to life (my mom put me up for adoption rather than aborting me), so looks like I'll get that chance to stand before God.

 

[Bright Raven]

My mother never had such thoughts.

 

[rexlunae]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for January 21st, 2013 06:00 AM

toldailytopic: Were you for or against your mother's right to terminate you?

At the time? I don't recall having an opinion.

 

[Buzzword]

Speaking only for myself, I would much rather have a mother (and family) that really wanted me than be forced on a mother that didn't want me at all.

Same here.

Similarly, if the choice was be aborted or die young (meaning, prior to achieving puberty) from starvation, malnutrition, neighborhood violence, domestic abuse, forced drug use, etc. etc., I'd prefer to have never lived.

Since it can't be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that life doesn't begin at conception

A negative can NEVER be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Basic rule of the scientific method, as well as basic logic.

 

[surrender]

Same here.

Similarly, if the choice was be aborted or die young (meaning, prior to achieving puberty) from starvation, malnutrition, neighborhood violence, domestic abuse, forced drug use, etc. etc., I'd prefer to have never lived.

A negative can NEVER be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Basic rule of the scientific method, as well as basic logic.

Until it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that life officially begins a period of time AFTER conception, I'll continue to error on the side of pro-life. Better?

Do you believe the Creator and Giver of Life approves of a Christian supporting abortion?

 

[Stripe]

And that truth is?Genesis 2:7?"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."When did the first man become a living soul?What does the expression, "he took his last breath" mean?If the last breath precedes and is sufficient cause for death, what does the first breath signify?oatmeal

Don't hold your breath waiting for an answer.

Same here.Similarly, if the choice was be aborted or die young (meaning, prior to achieving puberty) from starvation, malnutrition, neighborhood violence, domestic abuse, forced drug use, etc. etc., I'd prefer to have never lived.

Something bad might happen! Quick, murder somebody!

A negative can NEVER be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Basic rule of the scientific method, as well as basic logic.

Oh, I don't know. It's pretty darn obvious that your brain is non-existent.

 

[Tambora]

My mother never had such thoughts.

God bless your mother and the women like-minded.

 

[Buzzword]

Until it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that life officially begins a period of time AFTER conception, I'll continue to error on the side of pro-life. Better?

Do you believe the Creator and Giver of Life approves of a Christian supporting abortion?

Biology's definition of "life":

-with an organized structure performing a specific function
-with an ability to sustain existence, e.g. by nourishment
-with an ability to respond to stimuli or to its environment
-capable of adapting
-with an ability to germinate or reproduce

The first one doesn't happen until just before birth.

The second happens once structures start to form and nutrients begin to come in from the mother (well after conception).

The third happens at nearly all points from conception to birth.

The fourth seems to never occur in the womb. I've never heard of a zygote, embryo, or fetus reacting to FAS by becoming suddenly immune to alcohol.

The last doesn't happen until the third month of gestation, though even then it's just the organs for it, not the mechanisms or gametes.

Regarding the Creator, I don't presume to KNOW what He approves and doesn't approve of.

Jesus didn't talk about abortion, homosexuality, or any of the other berserk-button issues around here.

He DID, however, talk a lot about self-righteous religious people who treat others as beneath them, which TOL has in spades.

 

[Tambora]

God's word proves it.

Job 3 KJV
(3) Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived.
​

Notice is says a man child was conceived; not a mass of cell tissue.

So, when a woman has an abortion, it is not to just get rid of a glob of tissue.
It is to get rid of a child.

 

[resurrected]

He DID, however, talk a lot about self-righteous religious people who treat others as beneath them...

chapter and verse?

 

[surrender]

Biology's definition of "life":


The first one doesn't happen until just before birth.

The second happens once structures start to form and nutrients begin to come in from the mother (well after conception).

The third happens at nearly all points from conception to birth.

The fourth seems to never occur in the womb. I've never heard of a zygote, embryo, or fetus reacting to FAS by becoming suddenly immune to alcohol.

The last doesn't happen until the third month of gestation, though even then it's just the organs for it, not the mechanisms or gametes.

So, for you, it's proven beyond a shadow of a doubt? If so, it's your conviction and to God alone must you stand or fall, as must I. Agreed?

Regarding the Creator, I don't presume to KNOW what He approves and doesn't approve of.

You don't know ONE THING He approves of? You don't know ONE THING He doesn't approve of?

Jesus didn't talk about abortion, homosexuality, or any of the other berserk-button issues around here.

Jesus came to save lives. For that, I am so grateful!

He DID, however, talk a lot about self-righteous religious people who treat others as beneath them, which TOL has in spades.

I won't argue with that. However, I must ask, do you feel I, personally, have treated you as though you are beneath me? If I have, I'm very sorry. That's not my desire or intention.

 

[Rusha]

A negative can NEVER be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Basic rule of the scientific method, as well as basic logic.

In most cases, this would be true, however, as you know, this is a unique situation. Due to the fact that we are discussing a LIFE, the choice should always be to preserve that life.

 

[Dena]

I don't think I was aware of much at the time.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Biology's definition of "life":


The first one doesn't happen until just before birth.

The second happens once structures start to form and nutrients begin to come in from the mother (well after conception).

The third happens at nearly all points from conception to birth.

The fourth seems to never occur in the womb. I've never heard of a zygote, embryo, or fetus reacting to FAS by becoming suddenly immune to alcohol.

The last doesn't happen until the third month of gestation, though even then it's just the organs for it, not the mechanisms or gametes.

Thanks for sharing the secular version of life. Being that you identify as a christian, would it not be more productive to seek the Creators definition of life?

Regarding the Creator, I don't presume to KNOW what He approves and doesn't approve of.

Ah, but you see there is no need to presume to know - we have His word on it. If you cannot see the definition of life in there or believe it, how can you believe that you are a christian based on what it says in that same word?

Jesus didn't talk about abortion, homosexuality, or any of the other berserk-button issues around here.

Jesus created everything - the people He came to (the jews/hebrews) already understood Gods view on those things so why would He need to say it again? The law was given for the knowledge of sin, He did not need to tell them what it was again.

He DID, however, talk a lot about self-righteous religious people who treat others as beneath them, which TOL has in spades.

He also talked about those who honor him with their lips but their hearts are far away.

You seem more interested in the worlds opinion than His on this issue or you would be using His definitions, not the worlds.

 

[IMJerusha]

Biology's definition of "life":


The first one doesn't happen until just before birth.

The second happens once structures start to form and nutrients begin to come in from the mother (well after conception).

The third happens at nearly all points from conception to birth.

The fourth seems to never occur in the womb. I've never heard of a zygote, embryo, or fetus reacting to FAS by becoming suddenly immune to alcohol.

The last doesn't happen until the third month of gestation, though even then it's just the organs for it, not the mechanisms or gametes.

Regarding the Creator, I don't presume to KNOW what He approves and doesn't approve of.

Jesus didn't talk about abortion, homosexuality, or any of the other berserk-button issues around here.

He DID, however, talk a lot about self-righteous religious people who treat others as beneath them, which TOL has in spades.

Yeshua didn't have to talk about abortion and homosexuality. His Dad had already done that. But you should know that Yeshua definitely did speak out against murder and reiterated that marriage is between a man and a woman.
There's a huge difference between self-righteous people and people living in righteousness. Christians are called to live in righteousness. Choose this day whom you would serve!

 

[Lighthouse]

toldailytopic: Were you for or against your mother's right to terminate you?

I can't say I had any awareness at the time; which is why I believe the unborn need someone to speak for them as they cannot speak for themselves on such matters; those being matters of life or death.

I certainly would have been against it if I had been aware and asked at the time.

I would not have wanted to die based on the chance I would be poor, starving, abused, etc. That seems like a cop out. And it certainly would not have afforded me the chance to rise above it...

For.

You were aware enough to be for it?

How so? Because, as you stated [as seen below] you didn't have a functioning nervous system.

At least for early abortions, the foetus doesn't have a functioning nervous system. I like to think that person-hood requires a working nervous system, so in my mind a first trimester foetus is not a person.

You like to think? Can you prove that theorem correct?

For me, the potential to BECOME a person is not synonymous with BEING a person.

And yet you've not shown that being conceived is not the point at which one is "being a person."

As near as I can recall, nobody asked me that question.

Exactly.

I believe God's first command to His earthly human creation was to go forth and multiply. Abortion is in direct contradiction to God's first directive. I don't believe mothers have any "rights" concerning the contradiction of God's directives.

Something on which we can agree.

And that truth is?

Genesis 2:7?

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

When did the first man become a living soul?

What does the expression, "he took his last breath" mean?

If the last breath precedes and is sufficient cause for death, what does the first breath signify?

oatmeal

And yet Adam was neither born, nor ever in a womb. So your argument fails.

Especially in light of the Scripture that states God knew us before He formed us in the womb.

 

[Stripe]

chapter and verse?

2 Buzzwords, chapter 5, verse I-just-made-that-up.

 

[Frank Ernest]

This is a somewhat strange and selfish answer but it amounts to "for". Why? Speaking only for myself, I would much rather have a mother (and family) that really wanted me than be forced on a mother that didn't want me at all.

What would you think of your mother if the choice were you or a new car?