toldailytopic: Should businesses close on Thanksgiving?

[Delmar]

Personally, if I owned my own business, I'd almost certainly close things down for Thanksgiving but what I WOULD do doesn't equate to what someone else SHOULD do.

If I owned an airline or a gas station I would be open. My wife works at an everything for a dollar store and I think it is silly that they are open!

 

[The Berean]

But that wasn't really the question. No one was asking if you liked being paid and treated like dirt, or not. Or even if you realized that your being "grateful" for being treated like dirt was perhaps part of the reason for your being treated that way. The question was more along the lines of do you think it's right that you should be forced/forcing yourself to work for peanuts on a major holiday while your masters are all at home with their families enjoying the profits of your labor?

When I read your posts I think of the "party pooper"! :chuckle:

.

 

[PureX]

When I read your posts I think of the "party pooper"!

It's a tough job, but somebody's gotta do it.

"There's a silence when I enter
And a murmur when I leave
I can see their jealous faces
I can feel the ice they breathe

I'm cutting down the wood for the
Good of everyone!"​

 

[The Berean]

It's a tough job, but somebody's gotta do it.

"There's a silence when I enter
And a murmur when I leave
I can see their jealous faces
I can feel the ice they breathe

I'm cutting down the wood for the
Good of everyone!"​

I wasn't aware you were hired for this "job"? :think:

 

[Lon]

toldailytopic: Should businesses close on Thanksgiving?

For me? Yes. That's why I picked all of my jobs carefully. For the fire department? No! (I couldn't say yes or no without situational ethics coming to bear because I recognize my hypocrisy)

 

[Huckleberry]

But that wasn't really the question. No one was asking if you liked being paid and treated like dirt, or not. Or even if you realized that your being "grateful" for being treated like dirt was perhaps part of the reason for your being treated that way. The question was more along the lines of do you think it's right that you should be forced/forcing yourself to work for peanuts on a major holiday while your masters are all at home with their families enjoying the profits of your labor?

I think you missed the part where I was thankful for my job.

 

[PureX]

I think you missed the part where I was thankful for my job.

You seem to have missed the part where you deserve better. Gratitude is all well and good. I'm an ex-drunk, believe me when I say I understand the power of gratitude! But we need to be careful of what we're grateful for, lest we support our own tormentors.

That's all I was trying to say.

 

[PureX]

I wasn't aware you were hired for this "job"?

It came with the human condition, I think.

 

[The Berean]

It came with the human condition, I think.

Ok. But I notice you rarely ever say anything positive here at TOL. Are there no positive things about the "human condition"?

 

[Huckleberry]

You seem to have missed the part where you deserve better. Gratitude is all well and good. I'm an ex-drunk, believe me when I say I understand the power of gratitude! But we need to be careful of what we're grateful for, lest we support our own tormentors.

That's all I was trying to say.

But that wasn't really the question. No one was asking if you liked being paid and treated like dirt, or not. Or even if you realized that your being "grateful" for being treated like dirt was perhaps part of the reason for your being treated that way. The question was more along the lines of do you think it's right that you should be forced/forcing yourself to work for peanuts on a major holiday while your masters are all at home with their families enjoying the profits of your labor?

:think:

No, I don't think you were suggesting I be careful what I'm grateful for.

 

[PureX]

No, I don't think you were suggesting I be careful what I'm grateful for.

Well I was, but I admit it was via a pretty indirect route. I not only think you deserve better, I think anyone who does a day's work deserves a day's pay. Not the legal least the employer can get away with paying. It just irks me that we don't demand more from commerce than the least it can possibly provide everyone but owner/investor.

But that's capitalism.

 

[Tambora]

A lot of businesses do close.
And a lot only schedule their employees for 1/2 day (morning or evening) so they can have time with family for their meal.

I don't think it should mandatory.

 

[Lighthouse]

toldailytopic: Should businesses close on Thanksgiving?

Yes. Businesses should close for Thanksgiving. They should give their employees the day off to spend with friends and family. If they are going to remain open on Thanksgiving (with the exception of emergency services and law enforcement), they should allow those employees who want the day off to take it and staff the business with volunteers for the holiday.

I agree Nori.

Yet I wouldn't want it to be a law or anything. I think it's a wise business decision to shut down and honor the holiday. It's good for community and employee relations.

At the same time.... if a business decides to stay open I do not support employees who attempt to hurt the business by pressuring them to close. It's possible the business has determined that it needs to stay open on that day.

I'm with you fellas.

Ok. But I notice you rarely ever say anything positive here at TOL. Are there no positive things about the "human condition"?

There isn't anything positive about PureX.

 

[Lon]

I'm with you fellas.


There isn't anything positive about PureX.

Well, it does make dirty whites, whiter if you don't use too much.

 

[PureX]

Ok. But I notice you rarely ever say anything positive here at TOL. Are there no positive things about the "human condition"?

It's not about positives or negatives. It's about pointing out what's being overlooked. It's about looking beyond the bias. A lot of people have never learned to consider what's being left out of the discussion, and why it's being left out. Yet that can often be the key to understanding what's really being said.

This isn't a form of social interaction for me. I have friends and family for that. This a form of intellectual interaction, where we share and debate ideas. I try not to respond to personalities, here, I respond to the content of the posts. There's no need for anyone to be offended by anything I write because nothing I write is about them. It's only about the ideas they posted.

Years ago I was an avid participant here on TOL and I had to quit because I was getting upset and angry and allowing myself to be drawn into the mean-spirited pettiness that some people like to stir up. So I quit participating here for a long time. I'm able to enjoy the forum more, now, without it getting to me, because I ignore personality and focus on content. If that seems cold or 'negative', that's the breaks.

 

[bybee]

It's not about positives or negatives. It's about pointing out what's being overlooked. It's about looking beyond the bias. A lot of people have never learned to consider what's being left out of the discussion, and why it's being left out. Yet that can often be the key to understanding what's really being said.

This isn't a form of social interaction for me. I have friends and family for that. This a form of intellectual interaction, where we share and debate ideas. I try not to respond to personalities, here, I respond to the content of the posts. There's no need for anyone to be offended by anything I write because nothing I write is about them. It's only about the ideas they posted.

Years ago I was an avid participant here on TOL and I had to quit because I was getting upset and angry and allowing myself to be drawn into the mean-spirited pettiness that some people like to stir up. So I quit participating here for a long time. I'm able to enjoy the forum more, now, without it getting to me, because I ignore personality and focus on content. If that seems cold or 'negative', that's the breaks.

As is so often the case with you, you didn't answer the question. He asked you "Isn't there anything positive about the human condition"?
You might answer yes or you might answer no.
I'd agree with him. The view from your lens is very bleak!
Ohhhhh the nasty rich people and their strangle hold on society! Yet we have a Democratic President and very likely will have a Democratic majority in Congress after the next election! The Common Man is flexing his muscles and it is working!
Whyyyyyy, in no time at all we shall become a Socialist Utopia and you will finally have something to crow about!

 

[PureX]

As is so often the case with you, you didn't answer the question. He asked you "Isn't there anything positive about the human condition"?

I sometimes don't bother to answer questions where the answer is obvious, or the question is silly. The "human condition" is a huge concept. Of course there will many aspects of it that will be positive, and many that will be negative, and many that will be neither. We all know this, don't we? I think we do, so I didn't bother to answer.

You might answer yes or you might answer no.

There is no "yes or no" to a question that broad.

I'd agree with him. The view from your lens is very bleak!
Ohhhhh the nasty rich people and their strangle hold on society!

That stranglehold is causing a lot of people a lot of suffering. This is the sad truth of our times.

But here on TOL, there are lots of people who are willfully in denial of this unfortunate fact. And this is why you see me having to reiterate it so often. It's not because I'm obsessed with it. It's just because I find myself having to counter the persistent bias toward blindness that occurs so often in these particular forums.

Yet we have a Democratic President and very likely will have a Democratic majority in Congress after the next election! The Common Man is flexing his muscles and it is working!

Most of the democrats are just as bought and paid for by the wealthy elite as the republicans are. The only difference is that the democrats want to pretend that they aren't, while the republicans don't seem to care that we know they are. And I have stated this many times in the forums. You just don't ever seem to remember that I have done so, and so you keep pointing it out to me. But it's unnecessary. I know the democrats are no better than the republicans in terms of their being the political servants of the wealthy elite.

But you are right in pointing out that there is a very tiny sliver of hope in the fact that the public has finally begun to repudiate the republican party's outright worship and toadying of the wealthy elite, and the ridiculous lies they have been telling us on their behalf.

Whyyyyyy, in no time at all we shall become a Socialist Utopia and you will finally have something to crow about!

Well, that's just an absurd comment.

What I would like to see is an economic system in which the well-being of the people engaged in it mattered more than the profits being returned to the capital investors. A system in which the people who spend the days of their lives working for a commercial enterprise get some say in how that enterprise is being run. Where when the business does well, everyone involved in it gets to share in the profits, and when it's not doing so well, everyone shares in the belt-tightening. I would like to see commercial enterprise being held accountable to the community and the environment in which it purports to operate, for it's viability. I don't believe profit-taking trumps the health or well-being of the people, the community, the government, or the environment in which it's occurring. Do you?

When we wake up and realize that we are allowing a very few people to become very, very rich, at the cost of our own health, welfare, societal well-being, cultural integrity, spiritual well-being, political well-being, and environmental health, we will perhaps finally be able to start instituting limitations on profit-taking that will minimize economic inequity and finally put our values back on our collective well-being, where it belongs, instead of on obtaining massive personal wealth, where it does so much harm.

 

[bybee]

I sometimes don't bother to answer question where the answer is obvious, or the question is silly. The "human condition" is a huge concept. Of course there will many aspects of it that will be positive, and many that will be negative, and many that will be neither. We all know this. So I didn't bother to answer.
There is no "yes or no" to a question that broad.
This is true. But it's not all that's true, of course.

But here on TOL, there are lots of people who are willfully in denial of this unfortunate fact of our current economic state. And this is why you see me reiterating it so often. It's not because I'm obsessed with it, because I'm not. It's just because I find myself having to counter this bias on these particular forums, often.
Most of the democrats are just as bought and paid for by the wealthy elite as the republicans are. The only difference is that the democrats want to pretend that they aren't, while the republicans don't seem to care that we know they are.

And I have stated this many times in the forums. You just don't ever seem to remember that I have, and so want to keep pointing it out to me. But it's unnecessary. I know the democrats are no better than the republicans in terms of their being political servants of the wealthy elite.

But you are right in pointing out that there is a very tine sliver of hope in the fact that the public has finally begun to repudiate the republican party's outright worship of the wealthy elite, and the ridiculous lies they have been selling us on their behalf.
Well, that just a foolish comment, isn't it.

What I would like to see is an economic system in which the well-being of the people involved mattered more than the profits being returned to the capital investors. A system in which the people who spend their lives working for a commercial enterprise get some say in how that business is being run. Where when the business does well, everyone involved in it gets to share in the profits, and when it's not doing so well, everyone shares in the belt-tightening. I would like to see commercial enterprise being held accountable to the community and the environment in which it purports to engage, for it's viability. I don't believe profit-taking trumps the health or well-being of the people, the community, the government, or the environment in which it's occurring. Do you?

When we wake up and realize that we are allowing a very few people to become very, very rich, at the cost of our own health, welfare, societal well-being, cultural integrity, spiritual well-being, political well-being, and environmental health, we will perhaps finally be able to start instituting limitations on profit-taking that will minimize economic inequity and finally put our values back on our collective well-being, where it belongs, instead of on our personal wealth, where it does so much harm.

What you describe as desirable would be a utopia. And I agree, it is desirable. But until human beings change we shall have one form or another of greed at the top.
Education ought to be able to effect change?
Government makes things worse. Laws and regulations enacted and enforced by puffed up bureaucrats with little knowledge or experience of subjects at hand and able to spend tax payer money with abandon cause stagnation and despair amongst small business concerns and would be entrepreneurs.

 

[PureX]

What you describe as desirable would be a utopia. And I agree, it is desirable. But until human beings change we shall have one form or another of greed at the top.

And you all are calling ME the pessimist???

There is no reason at all that we have to allow our own worst nature to rule us. None. And there are lots of other societies of human beings on Earth that do not allow it, and who are living happy and healthy lives.

Just because as human beings we can't eliminate our inclination toward being stupid and greedy, doesn't mean we have to become enslaved to our demons! We are perfectly capable of choosing to act on and live by our better inclinations!

Education ought to be able to effect change?

Willingness must come first of. After that the various means will present themselves. But even before we can become willing, we need to wake up! And stop lying to ourselves about what's really going on, here.

Government makes things worse. Laws and regulations enacted and enforced by puffed up bureaucrats with little knowledge or experience of subjects at hand and able to spend tax payer money with abandon cause stagnation and despair amongst small business concerns and would be entrepreneurs.

The government is accountable to US. If the government is broken, it's OUR responsibility to FIX IT.

But again, nothing can happen until we wake up and stop lying to ourselves about what's really going on. And then become willing to accept responsibility for putting a stop to it. The only reason the people doing this to us are getting away with it is that we're LETTING them. Many of us are even encouraging them. And many of those encouragers are right here on TOL.

 

[Buzzword]

Just because I had it inflicted on me earlier today while trying to take a nap:
Why does no one protest that PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES are made to "work" on Thanksgiving?