PureX
Well-known member
They're borrowing it, now. That isn't effecting them, directly.
toldailytopic: Revamping the tax system.
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
Christ's Word
New member
An effective fix can only be devised by understanding the logistics of RISK vs. REWARD. This country has to have CLEAR strategic goals and the entrepreneurs that take us to our goals have to be rewarded, individual taxation has to stop. WHATS YOUR PLAN?
elected4ever
New member
The shoe fits. Live with it.
elected4ever
New member
See post # 17
drbrumley
Well-known member
jwp98
New member
The rich will adapt no matter what we do. That's how they got rich. I'd love to be among them but alas, my parents were teachers.
I'm uncomfortable with the idea that taxing the rich will solve our economic problems. Regardless, that seems to be the path we have chosen. Robin Hood plans are good for election years but not the stuff of responsible planning for decades to come.
Academic economists don't use the term trickle down for a reason. It is a class warfare term used to insult the star of "Bedtime for Bonzo."
I did some looking about taxation and it seems there is a regressive tax code beyond a certain point. Combined with other deductions and loopholes, this is a problem I had not considered much. When a rich politician discloses their tax forms I am always shocked at how little they paid. Most hard working people are paying 20-40% or more but it depends on whether you count property, sales, etc.
The tax code also punishes saving and investing. Fine. What do we care about saving and investing? We are just trying to reclaim cash money from the rich. There couldn't be any consequences. LOL
Hey, why am I reading about taxation on a Friday night?
This looks like more than a few percent per year to me. You choose to quote economic growth rates (more population and more consumption, more production with less input) rather than the graph below, household assets. Why?
Christ's Word
New member
Kind of like Churchill, in 1937......
PureX
Well-known member
The rich are not gods. They are not a force of nature. They are just people who are want to be rich more than the rest of us, and are willing to do whatever it takes to get what they want. The whole purpose of government is to protect us from each other, and that includes protecting us from economic exploitation.
I couldn't care less about the rich, and I'm sure they couldn't care less about you or me, either. What I do care about is the damage that is being done to a huge number of people so that a very small number of us can gain and retain control of most of the nation's wealth. It's destroying the nation and worse than that, it's causing a lot of unnecessary suffering for a lot of people. We need to get the wealth more equally distributed because that's what's good for people, and that's what's good for the economy. And taxing wealth is the best and most painless way of achieving that.
Many, if not most academic economists are full of crap. (See why in this post ... )
Your graph is too simple. It does not take inflation into account. It does not represent intangible assets like health insurance. It does not take risk into account, like how likely we are to lose everything due to job loss, divorce, or illness. There are millions of American people who will surely attest to the fact that they have lost ground economically over the last 30 years. Wages are lower, costs are higher, and we are being gouged more and more deeply by corporations that have bribed the government to re-write laws giving them unfair advantages and monopolies. As the rich get richer, they are using that wealth to pervert the system and gain even more wealth and power. Are you seriously trying to claim that this isn't so?
Christ's Word
New member
Ok, I reread your post......how does that balance trade with China, or generate enough revenue for national defense? How also will this bring manufacturing back to the U.S.? Is this just a starve the beast strategy so we can shrink the size of government by 95%?
Please don't be sarcastic with your answers, I am trying to figure out where you are coming from and understand the long term implications of what you are proposing.
eameece
New member
Most of the things your Republican heroes come up with are more schemes to enrich the rich at the expense of the rest of us. That is certainly true of 9-9-9 and flat tax and national sales tax. The first step is to restore the Bush tax cuts to where they were before Bush. That was working well and our economy was booming. As soon as Bush put in his tax cuts for the rich, based on more trickle-down economics, the economy stalled and poverty increased. The best thing we can do to create a fair tax system is to put Republicans out of office; hopefully forever. Their ideas are TOTALLY bankrupt. And until more of you guys GET that, our nation will remain on its current course to total bankruptcy in every sense of the word; mark MY word.
Once you have restored taxes to what they were under Clinton, you can talk about the payroll tax. It should also be restored to what it was before the Bush crash, UNLESS we are willing to raise the cap on how much income is taxed, and preferrably applied to all income and not just the income of those who work. Then we could keep the Social Security tax at 4%, which would be much better for the middle class and small businesses trying to advance.
There would also then be room to raise the Medicare tax, so we could have medicare for all. That is the way to reduce medical costs for everybody, along with competition in drug pricing (vetoed by the Republicans). Take the private insurance boondoggle out of the picture, and that would help a lot of businesses who are being strangled by high health care costs for their employees. And of course you need some good management of technology and more emphasis on holistic, natural and preventive methods.
I am not opposed to closing some corporate tax loopholes so the overall rates can be lowered somewhat. I think also the home mortgage deduction should be eliminated for all except people's first homes that they live in. There aren't any other personal tax deductions that need to be eliminated.
Bring back tariffs or other kinds of taxes on imports. Replace free trade with fair trade. Tariffs were once the main source of revenue for this country.
A higher tax on the richest incomes is also necessary. Those of you who think the top 0.1% create jobs, and thus should not be taxed more, are living in magic pony land or worse.
eameece
New member
That's good to hear. I haven't read most of the posts on this thread yet, so if true I agree that's a good thing.
genuineoriginal
New member
In other words, you don't understand my proposal, so you label it as socialist? That only makes you an idiot.
You obviously haven't thought that one through. Your solution is anarchy.
So, you don't understand the difference between federal, state, and local governments, so you paint them all with the same brush.
I have no idea what you are talking about on that one.
Destroy more manufacturing.
No, it destroys productivity, government, and reduces the population to anarchy.
Try again.
Christ's Word
New member
You know slick, you could always just spend less, that is still an option.......hello......anybody home?
eameece
New member
I am quite frugal, thank you very much....
Flat tax, without special deductions.
organiccornflake
New member
So the rich become richer and the poor poorer?
Please be a little more detailed in what you are asking and explain how you came to that conclusion to be able to ask me that, thank you.
elected4ever
New member
Your tax system balances the books on the back of the consumer; Consumer basted VAT taxes, income taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, etc, etc, etc. Did you know that about half the price of a can of peas are taxes. Many taxes are placed on some goods and services just because a minority use the product or service and the general public go unaffected. Hardly a fair system. Consumer based taxes impoverishes the citizen. Did you know that the Citizens of the states do not own the land that they think they own? Don't pay your property takes and you will find out in a hurry. Did you know that in many items in a persons home are taxed from year to year even though they bought the idem and paid taxes on that idem at the time of purchase. We have a consumer basted tax system that has gone wild. That makes me an idiot for wonting to change the tax structure? NOT!
Yes I have and it is you who are afraid of thinking outside the box. You are afraid of change. You like your controled little world and the benefits of the nanney state.
This nation was founded on the principle of bottom up and not top down government. Our country was founded on the principles of life, liberty and the pursuit of property. The government should not be responsible for you, you hate liberty and you hate the idea that you should be responsible for your well being. To you the government should be responsible for the quality of your life. The government should dictate the boundaries of liberty and and tell you the restrictions of what you can do on the land that you rent from the collective, government, through property taxes.
I know. Liberty is a forign word to you.
Not on your life. The idea is to maxamize the purchesing power of the consummers to go give more incentive to the producers of wealt to produce more wealth.
Not only does my plan increase wealth it also gives incentive to the producer of wealth to keep his price competitive. The higher the price of the finished goods the more taxes he pays and the taxes he pays are included in the price of the product. He has control over his taxes. When the product is purchased by the consumer there are no additional taxes and if the product is resold there is no additional sales taxes.
No.
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Christ's Word
New member
I admire that in a person. Can you say the same about your state government or your federal government?