toldailytopic: Revamping the tax system.

eameece

New member
No, that's what lazy folks like yourself say so you can leach off the achievers of society, to believe anything to the contrary is progressive liberal/marxist fantasyland. :down:

How many rockets to the Moon and Mars could we have had without that "leaching"?

The folks on Wall Street who get enormous salaries, and who used tax bailout money to pay themselves bonuses instead of going to jail for ruining the economy for everyone else, did not "achieve" anything. Most rich people are leaching off their employees and customers by extorting super-high salaries, and do not "achieve" anything.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
This nation was founded on the principle of bottom up and not top down government. Our country was founded on the principles of life, liberty and the pursuit of property. The government should not be responsible for you
We agree on this, but you missed the part where the States and local governments were founded on different principles from the Federal government.
you hate liberty and you hate the idea that you should be responsible for your well being. To you the government should be responsible for the quality of your life. The government should dictate the boundaries of liberty and and tell you the restrictions of what you can do on the land that you rent from the collective, government, through property taxes.
You are someone else's beliefs, not mine here.
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
If we actually did this, the government would be awash in money. I suspect the percentage at the low end could be lowered, and the 300K limit could be raised to maybe 500K. I think it would work surprisingly well.

It would work well untill all the rich move to other countries and we all watch our jobs go there also.
 

rocketman

Resident Rocket Surgeon
Hall of Fame
How many rockets to the Moon and Mars could we have had without that "leaching"?

The better question is how many jobs were created through the space program? How many technologies do you every day that originated with the space program? Need I go on....There's a big difference between investment & return and the government stealing from those who achieve and giving it to those who want to leach. If you are getting a free ride what is the incentive to get off your duff and make something of yourself. The differences between your idea of governments role and mine are quite different as you see.

The folks on Wall Street who get enormous salaries, and who used tax bailout money to pay themselves bonuses instead of going to jail for ruining the economy for everyone else, did not "achieve" anything. Most rich people are leaching off their employees and customers by extorting super-high salaries, and do not "achieve" anything.

:blabla: No value added, this is just more liberal rhetoric.
 

PureX

Well-known member
It would work well untill all the rich move to other countries and we all watch our jobs go there also.
The rich don't own the job market. And they certainly aren't irreplaceable. They can't "take jobs with them", and if we so choose, they can't take their wealth, either.
 

eameece

New member
The better question is how many jobs were created through the space program? How many technologies do you every day that originated with the space program?
I think you're making my point. Government spending can be a good thing. It's not theft.
Need I go on....There's a big difference between investment & return and the government stealing from those who achieve and giving it to those who want to leach. If you are getting a free ride what is the incentive to get off your duff and make something of yourself. The differences between your idea of governments role and mine are quite different as you see.
Uh, I didn't know that! :chuckle:

Giving money to help people lift themselves out of poverty is not giving it to leeches either. It is insurance for yourself and your business.

:blabla: No value added, this is just more liberal rhetoric.
More truth you don't want to face.
 

rocketman

Resident Rocket Surgeon
Hall of Fame
I think you're making my point. Government spending can be a good thing. It's not theft.

Spending or an investment with a return there is a difference.

Giving money to help people lift themselves out of poverty is not giving it to leeches either. It is insurance for yourself and your business.

That is your opinion, not mine. Your an enabler not a helper.

More truth you don't want to face.

Hardly truth.
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
The rich don't own the job market. And they certainly aren't irreplaceable. They can't "take jobs with them", and if we so choose, they can't take their wealth, either.

You can choose to take someone elses belongings if they excercise their freedom to leave this country? How?
 

Christ's Word

New member
The rich don't own the job market. And they certainly aren't irreplaceable. They can't "take jobs with them", and if we so choose, they can't take their wealth, either.

That is already happening, have you seen the waiting list for Americans to get into New Zealand?
 

PureX

Well-known member
That is already happening, have you seen the waiting list for Americans to get into New Zealand?
Everyone wants to go live in New Zealand. I would like to live in New Zealand. Fortunately for New Zealanders, they have very tight emmigration rules.
 

PureX

Well-known member
You can choose to take someone elses belongings if they excercise their freedom to leave this country? How?
Many countries will not allow citizens who wish to leave, to take all their wealth with them. I guess they believe that the wealth of the nation belongs to the nation, not to those who happen to have been clever enough and fortunate enough to pile lots of it up in their name.
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
Many countries will not allow citizens who wish to leave, to take all their wealth with them. I guess they believe that the wealth of the nation belongs to the nation, not to those who happen to have been clever enough and fortunate enough to pile lots of it up in their name.


Thats not the case in this one (which is the one we are discussing), you said they cant take jobs from here and you can stop them from taking their wealth, tell me how you intend to do that and by what law you can stop them?

It happens everyday. American jobs are taken to other countries all the time and american wealth is taken from here to elsewhere all the time too.
 

Traditio

BANNED
Banned
You are a thief. Advocating taking one's property to give to another is thievery, you promote it, thereby your a thief.

DrB.: I question someone's right to have large amounts of wealth, at least, in certain cases. If you read Plato's Laws, it was clear that he was against the redistribution of wealth. But he does assert that there must be caps on income. It's not entirely clear that Aristotle disagrees in the Politics: he asserts that in the well-ordered state, there are very few disparities in income, prestige, etc.

In St. Augustine (one of the latter books of De Trinitate), we find that the soul ultimately sins in preferring the private to the common.

In the doctrine of the Catholic Faith, we find that goods have a universal destination for all mankind, and we see sentiments like this in St. Thomas Aquinas.

The idea of this supremely holy right to every possession that comes my way without question simply doesn't arise until fairly recently in history (John Locke and Adam Smith, I believe).

It's certainly not a Christian or a Jewish conception.

Note, I'm not asserting anything Communist (I don't think that private property must be abolished). But I do think there is a limit on what legitimately can be called "mine."
 

Traditio

BANNED
Banned
You do not plan to have a job left in this country under that plan.

An economy is simply a way in which a community figures out how to get the things it needs. If you scare off all the rich people, there will still be resources left in the country and people to manipulate them.

What you'll be rid of is not an economy or jobs. What you'll be rid of is a bunch of very, very wicked men.
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
An economy is simply a way in which a community figures out how to get the things it needs. If you scare off all the rich people, there will still be resources left in the country and people to manipulate them.

What you'll be rid of is not an economy or jobs. What you'll be rid of is a bunch of very, very wicked men.

Tell that to the unemployed manufactering workers whose jobs have been taken to other countries and cant find another job. They don't seem to think your plan is working out so well.
 

Traditio

BANNED
Banned
Tell that to the unemployed manufactering workers whose jobs have been taken to other countries and cant find another job. They don't seem to think your plan is working out so well.

You are confused. The reason this is the case is because the rich still by and large retain ownership over the means of production in this country. If they all just left in a massive exodus...:idunno:
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
You are confused. The reason this is the case is because the rich still by and large retain ownership over the means of production in this country. If they all just left in a massive exodus...:idunno:

If it were all as simple as you are saying, then why isn't anyone else stepping up and creating manufacturing jobs?

If they all just left in a mass exodus, the economy would completely implode.

A recent example, general motors for instance. If it closed the doors in this country (it operates in other counties too), thousands and thousands of manufacturing jobs would instantly be lost.

Then as a result of those jobs being lost, those workers would lose their homes and most likely move away from the area they live in, which in turn would cause a housing overage, which affects the larger community by lowering home values which cause others to pay more than homes are worth and might lose their homes too, which would also cause local grocery losses and retail losses from those workers which would cause those businesses to perhaps suffer to the point of closing their doors and restaurants and less tax dollars for local schools and on and on and on and on

Do you consider the domino effects of all these things?

The economy could not sustain it. then multiply that by all large companies closing up and heading out.

How many starving and out of work do you think say an initial loss of 50,000 jobs (using a very conservative figure) would turn into in just a few months considering domino effect?

Think about it.
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
Here is a good series if you want to see what economic collapse really looks like:

Detroit Ground Zero for Economic Collapse Part 1/4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3tH2jFaFW4&feature=related

Detroit ordered to close half of its schools: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/02/21/national/main20034397.shtml


Detroit plans to save city by demolishing vacant neighborhoods (yes entire neighborhoods are empty) - http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/02/21/national/main20034397.shtml

Disappeared Detroit - in lost magazine (excellent read) - http://www.lostmag.com/issue2/detroit.php

And all these dont even begin to show it or tell it.
 
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