toldailytopic: Revamping the tax system.

[PureX]

Just the opposite is true. It was the continued devaluation of the Roman currency that caused the devolution of the Roman Empire. It will be the devolution of the United States also.

Gold belongs in the hands of the people and not in the hands of government. It was the peoples gold that was minted and returned to the people that furnished the currency of the United States. The government was only to guarantee the amount and fineness of the minted coin. The government stole the gold and placed it in the hands of the wealthy elect called the Federal Reserve to monopolize the currency. This way they can and do dictate policy.

The books of the elect are balanced on the backs of the common man instead of elect who made bad choices and should be responsible for their own mistakes. You seem to be in favor of continuing this practice.

There is no need at all for currency to have any value in itself. It's simply a portable representation of an agreed upon 'value unit'. All that matters is that we can control the production of currency so as to maintain it's relative agreed upon value.

 

[GuySmiley]

So, what happens when the dollar is devaluated to the point that the poverty level is $300,000 per year? Then people making less than the poverty level will be paying a flat income tax as well.

The amount would obviously have to change with inflation. Congress would still argue about it. It could raised an lowered for wartime, etc.

 

[elected4ever]

There is no need at all for currency to have any value in itself. It's simply a portable representation of an agreed upon 'value unit'. All that matters is that we can control the production of currency so as to maintain it's relative agreed upon value.

That is a political impossibility with a fiat currency.

 

[PureX]

That is a political impossibility with a fiat currency.

"Fiat currency" is itself a functional impossibility. Currency establishes it's value through it's use. If there are 100 burgers in a room, and 100 burger-buyer dollars in the pockets of the people in the room, the cost of a burger will be one dollar, regardless of government fiats. If there were 100 burgers in the room and 200 burger-buyer dollars, it would cost two burger dollars to buy one burger, regardless of what the government proclaimed. We can print more burger-buyer dollars as long as we make more burgers to go along with them, or we'll end up devaluing the dollars. There is no need for the burger dollars to have any intrinsic value of their own (such as a gold standard) nor any reason that the government should have to borrow money when it wants or needs to increase the dollars in circulation.

 

[elected4ever]

Is everyone on this tread a Marxist/Leninist socialist progressive except for me? Why do you even bother calling yourself a conservative. No wonder the government gets away with its tom foolery. disgusting!:box:

 

[PureX]

I don't get it. How can one tax wealth without taxing people?

Again and again zero-sum theory comes up. There isn't a fixed amount of wealth like there are square miles of land in the USA. If A gains, B does not lose. "A" might add value where there was none. He or she might bring in wealth from foreign lands. Harness a new resource or idea.

Actually, there is a pretty fixed value. It's not a theory. The national economy only grows (increases in value) by a few percent each year. So this idea that helping the rich get richer will somehow magically also help everyone else get richer is just plain wrong. All that happens, and all that has happened since Reagan and the "trickle-down" nonsense is that the rich got a whole lot richer while everyone else became poorer. And that's all that will continue to happen if we keep falling for these same lies. At any given time there is only so much wealth to go around. And when it piles up in the pockets of a few, it does so by leaving the pockets of the many. And that small increase in overall national wealth has virtually no effect on this simple mathematical reality.

 

[chrysostom]

Is everyone on this tread a Marxist/Leninist socialist progressive except for me? Why do you even bother calling yourself a conservative. No wonder the government gets away with its tom foolery. disgusting!:box:

a wacko is the only one to see it their way

 

[elected4ever]

"Fiat currency" is itself a functional impossibility. Currency establishes it's value through it's use. If there are 100 burgers in a room, and 100 burger-buyer dollars in the pockets of the people in the room, the cost of a burger will be one dollar, regardless of government fiats. If there were 100 burgers in the room and 200 burger-buyer dollars, it would cost two burger dollars to buy one burger, regardless of what the government proclaimed. We can print more burger-buyer dollars as long as we make more burgers to go along with them, or we'll end up devaluing the dollars. There is no need for the burger dollars to have any intrinsic value of their own (such as a gold standard) nor any reason that the government should have to borrow money when it wants or needs to increase the dollars in circulation.

The flaw is the ability to create currency at will which devalues any currency previously created. So the idea that doubling the amount of currency relative to the doubling the amount of consumers and/or product is a fallacious argument.

 

[elohiym]

Just the opposite is true. It was the continued devaluation of the Roman currency that caused the devolution of the Roman Empire.

I don't believe that is accurate. Are you saying Bill Still was lying in the Secrets of Oz film, and can you refute his claims point for point and supply the evidence he did? If not ...

Gold belongs in the hands of the people and not in the hands of government. It was the peoples gold that was minted and returned to the people that furnished the currency of the United States. The government was only to guarantee the amount and fineness of the minted coin. The government stole the gold and placed it in the hands of the wealthy elect called the Federal Reserve to monopolize the currency. This way they can and do dictate policy.

The history I'm familiar with tells a different story.

The books of the elect are balanced on the backs of the common man instead of elect who made bad choices and should be responsible for their own mistakes.

The books are not balanced, but cooked. And people are not making bad choices as much as they are being defrauded by a deposit expansion scheme. But it seems only a small minority understands this, so at this point all I can do is sit back and watch the tragedy unfold.

You seem to be in favor of continuing this practice.

It's obvious I'm not.

I'm just in favor of the plan that Bill Still has put forth as the only plan that can work. It's self-evident once you understand the deposit expansion fraud of the money changers. It doesn't hurt to not be a biased gold bug, too.

Peace, my friend. . :e4e:

 

[PureX]

The flaw is the ability to create currency at will which devalues any currency previously created. So the idea that doubling the amount of currency relative to the doubling the amount of consumers and/or product is a fallacious argument.

But doing so also devalues the currency of those in charge of increasing/decreasing the currency in circulation. So they have the most natural disincentive in the world, their own greed, not to cause inflation.

 

[elected4ever]

a wacko is the only one to see it their way

Just someone who believe in the constitutionally provided for system. Not the criminal system presently in force. I believe in one nation under law and not a criminal democracy. Its equal protection under law not rule of the majority. That is not being wacko. To believe otherwise is wacko.

 

[elected4ever]

But doing so also devalues the currency of those in charge of increasing/decreasing the currency in circulation. So they have the most natural disincentive in the world, their own greed, not to cause inflation.

It doesn't stop them now, does it?

 

[drbrumley]

If you were in charge of revamping the tax code of the nation what sort of tax plan do you think would be most fair and best for your country?

- Flat Tax?
- National sales tax?
- Fair tax?
- 9, 9, 9
- Other?

Or do you think we should keep things the way they are right now?

Taxes are legalized theft.

 

[genuineoriginal]

The amount would obviously have to change with inflation.

Just like the amount of Social Security a person receives has changed with inflation?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Is everyone on this tread a Marxist/Leninist socialist progressive except for me? Why do you even bother calling yourself a conservative. No wonder the government gets away with its tom foolery. disgusting!:box:

 

[elected4ever]

I don't believe that is accurate. Are you saying Bill Still was lying in the Secrets of Oz film, and can you refute his claims point for point and supply the evidence he did? If not ...

I am saying that Bill Still is misinformed in that his conclusions in history are flawed and that the system he propagates is unconstitutional. There is much I agree with him on but I support his right to say it. To advocate a fiat monetary system is socialist progressive thought.

The history I'm familiar with tells a different story.

Then maybe you should broaden your history reading list.

The books are not balanced, but cooked. And people are not making bad choices as much as they are being defrauded by a deposit expansion scheme. But it seems only a small minority understands this, so at this point all I can do is sit back and watch the tragedy unfold.

It would be the same even in a gold standard if fractional reserve banking were permitted. That is how the system is gamed to the benefit of the international bankers and cooperations. That is why we always get stuck with the bill for bad business practices.

It's obvious I'm not.

It should give you pause then to support the system that acts as facilitator of socialist government. It did me.

I'm just in favor of the plan that Bill Still has put forth as the only plan that can work. It's self-evident once you understand the deposit expansion fraud of the money changers. It doesn't hurt to not be a biased gold bug, too.

Peace, my friend. . :e4e:

There is no way possible for Bill Still's plan to work because it is to easily manipulated. To do what has been done by congress and our presidents sense 1913 is willful criminality and hardly an objection has been raised. Why? Because of the handouts by government in welfare to the rich as well as the poor. We have become a people who are dependent upon government and refuse to be responsible for ourselves.

I do not own the first oz. of gold but that doesn't prevent me from supporting lawful money which is by law gold and silver coin. Anything else is evidence enough of criminal activity by our own government.

 

[Christ's Word]

If you were in charge of revamping the tax code of the nation what sort of tax plan do you think would be most fair and best for your country?

- Flat Tax?
- National sales tax?
- Fair tax?
- 9, 9, 9
- Other?

A wise U.S. General once said to me years ago, "Amateurs study tactics, and professionals study logistics". So let's start with the logistics of how wealth is obtained, and more importantly maintained.

My Grandfather taught me that all true forms of sustainable wealth have only three sources:
1. Manufacturing
2. Farming
3. Mining

Our tax code changes, economic policy, monetary policy, energy policy, international trade policy, and NASA policy need to stand on this very foundational principle in a systematic coordinated way. We need change, and the change needs to be orchestrated on many levels. We need policies that push this country from a 'service, tax, spend, and debt' economy to a "manufacture, mine, farm, tariff, and save" economy.

Since change is the most difficult thing that humans do, it is easier to accomplish in stages over a reasonable, but not long transitional period. The changes in the tax code need to include monetary system changes such as eliminating the Federal Reserve, establishing tariffs on imported goods from China and all other countries, removing bureaucratic controls on domestic drilling for oil and gas, and the re-prioritization of NASA's objectives to support Helium 3 fusion. Andrew Jackson had many things right, we should study his successes.

I propose a three year transitional plan that systematically phases out personal income tax, re-energizes mining (drilling for oil and gas), and restores the U.S. manufacturing environment to one of potential profits. The energy policy is key, and must be jump started to fuel the soon growing resurgence. We have witnessed in the last 10 years the largest transfer of wealth in human history. The money has left the U.S. and Europe, and been firmly placed in the pockets of Middle East oil barons. The economy cannot recover, nor our long term future secured, without changing the logistical flow of cash for oil, so that our wealth remains in the U.S. Economy. Day one we must start drilling for oil and gas, and mine enough of these resources to wean us off foreign oil. The transition must be from oil to natural gas wherever applicable with an eye on the future transition to Helium 3 fusion. God showed us how to power his universe, and fusion is the ticket anywhere large amounts of energy are needed. I would be happy to provide more detail but this post is knocking on the door of what is too long by TOL rules so here is the summary.

Year 1:

1. Hybrid flat tax sales tax system, with no tax on food, medicine, clothing or shelter. The poor who cannot afford these things should not be taxed on them, neither should anyone else, they are life’s necessities, over the age of 70, no more taxes; you have done your job it’s time to relax, no tax on active military or Guard or Reserve paychecks or any other Federal salary, paying more money to just take it back wastes everyone’s money and costs taxpayers; it is just a stupid, needless activity cost.

2. 15% tariff on all imported goods, no exceptions, none.

3. Abolish the Federal Reserve, EPA, OSHA, DoEd, Shrink every other agency 15 percent, FBI 50%.

4. Shift 33 percent of the tax burden away from individuals, and place them on energy corporations. Give the energy corporations that solve strategic problems big tax breaks for actual solutions. Give manufacturers tax breaks only for increasing full time jobs with corp. paid health care.

5. Task NASA to focus on helium 3 fusion only, and getting back to the moon, pronto.


Year 2:

1. Remove the Flat Tax and only allow the consumer sales tax to remain, same exemptions apply.

2. Tariffs raised to 20% across the board, no exceptions.

3. Abolish the IRS; establish a new agency focused on honest sales tax collection enforcement. Reward corporate research that solves strategic problems don’t fund it. Give 10 year tax credits to corporations who relocate international factories to the U.S.

4. Shift 33 percent more of the tax burden away from individuals and on to importers and corporations.

5. Begin combining NASA with the Department of Energy focused on strategic goals.


Year 3:

1. Eliminate entirely individual tax. Amend the Constitution to forbid taxing individuals by the FED.

2. Taxes on all imported goods to 25%, no exceptions.

3. Pass a balanced budget amendment that prevents congress from spending more money than they actually collected the previous year.

4. Reward heavily any industry that transitions to natural gas.

5. Reward any private industry that advances us to effective fusion power generation.

6. Cut the Federal Bureaucracy by another 10 %

 

[elected4ever]

You question that statement, just tell me why I should not include you. Let's see you defend a lawful tax and monetary system. If the shoe fits ware it. If not tell me why the shoe don't fit.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Is everyone on this tread a Marxist/Leninist socialist progressive except for me? Why do you even bother calling yourself a conservative. No wonder the government gets away with its tom foolery. disgusting!:box:

You question that statement, just tell me why I should not include you. Let's see you defend a lawful tax and monetary system. If the shoe fits ware it. If not tell me why the shoe don't fit.

Here is my statements on revamping the tax system, I did not say anything about the monetary system since it wasn't the topic under discussion.

• Heavily regulate and tax corporations, LLCs, and other entities like them. (These are not people and their collective power and lack of personal liability must be controlled.)
• Deregulate and stop taxing Sole Proprietor and Partnership businesses. (These are people and should not be taxed twice.)
• Tax the States according to the number residents in the State and abolish taxing individual residents of the States. (The Federal government needs to stop abridging the powers of the States)
• Heavily tax the States according to the number of "undocumented" residents in the States. (The States can control the "undocumented" residents or pay enough to the Federal government to cover the costs of the Federal government dealing with the problem)
• Heavily regulate and tax all imports without any regard to nation of origin or whether they are being imported by a domestic or foreign entity. (Make all imported goods more costly to buy in order to create a greater demand for domestic manufacturing)
• Stop taxing businesses for labor. (Make it cheaper for businesses to hire people so more people can be hired for the same cost to the business)

The ball is in your court. Explain how my proposals are Marxist/Leninist socialist progressive.

 

[elected4ever]

A wise U.S. General once said to me years ago, "Amateurs study tactics, and professionals study logistics". So let's start with the logistics of how wealth is obtained, and more importantly maintained.

My Grandfather taught me that all true forms of sustainable wealth have only three sources:
1. Manufacturing
2. Farming
3. Mining

Our tax code changes, economic policy, monetary policy, energy policy, international trade policy, and NASA policy need to stand on this very foundational principle in a systematic coordinated way. We need change, and the change needs to be orchestrated on many levels. We need policies that push this country from a 'service, tax, spend, and debt' economy to a "manufacture, mine, farm, tariff, and save" economy.

Since change is the most difficult thing that humans do, it is easier to accomplish in stages over a reasonable, but not long transitional period. The changes in the tax code need to include monetary system changes such as eliminating the Federal Reserve, establishing tariffs on imported goods from China and all other countries, removing bureaucratic controls on domestic drilling for oil and gas, and the re-prioritization of NASA's objectives to support Helium 3 fusion. Andrew Jackson had many things right, we should study his successes.

I propose a three year transitional plan that systematically phases out personal income tax, re-energizes mining (drilling for oil and gas), and restores the U.S. manufacturing environment to one of potential profits. The energy policy is key, and must be jump started to fuel the soon growing resurgence. We have witnessed in the last 10 years the largest transfer of wealth in human history. The money has left the U.S. and Europe, and been firmly placed in the pockets of Middle East oil barons. The economy cannot recover, nor our long term future secured, without changing the logistical flow of cash for oil, so that our wealth remains in the U.S. Economy. Day one we must start drilling for oil and gas, and mine enough of these resources to wean us off foreign oil. The transition must be from oil to natural gas wherever applicable with an eye on the future transition to Helium 3 fusion. God showed us how to power his universe, and fusion is the ticket anywhere large amounts of energy are needed. I would be happy to provide more detail but this post is knocking on the door of what is too long by TOL rules so here is the summary.

Year 1:

1. Hybrid flat tax sales tax system, with no tax on food, medicine, clothing or shelter. The poor who cannot afford these things should not be taxed on them, neither should anyone else, they are life’s necessities, over the age of 70, no more taxes; you have done your job it’s time to relax, no tax on active military or Guard or Reserve paychecks or any other Federal salary, paying more money to just take it back wastes everyone’s money and costs taxpayers; it is just a stupid, needless activity cost.

2. 15% tariff on all imported goods, no exceptions, none.

3. Abolish the Federal Reserve, EPA, OSHA, DoEd, Shrink every other agency 15 percent, FBI 50%.

4. Shift 33 percent of the tax burden away from individuals, and place them on energy corporations. Give the energy corporations that solve strategic problems big tax breaks for actual solutions. Give manufacturers tax breaks only for increasing full time jobs with corp. paid health care.

5. Task NASA to focus on helium 3 fusion only, and getting back to the moon, pronto.


Year 2:

1. Remove the Flat Tax and only allow the consumer sales tax to remain, same exemptions apply.

2. Tariffs raised to 20% across the board, no exceptions.

3. Abolish the IRS; establish a new agency focused on honest sales tax collection enforcement. Reward corporate research that solves strategic problems don’t fund it. Give 10 year tax credits to corporations who relocate international factories to the U.S.

4. Shift 33 percent more of the tax burden away from individuals and on to importers and corporations.

5. Begin combining NASA with the Department of Energy focused on strategic goals.


Year 3:

1. Eliminate entirely individual tax. Amend the Constitution to forbid taxing individuals by the FED.

2. Taxes on all imported goods to 25%, no exceptions.

3. Pass a balanced budget amendment that prevents congress from spending more money than they actually collected the previous year.

4. Reward heavily any industry that transitions to natural gas.

5. Reward any private industry that advances us to effective fusion power generation.

6. Cut the Federal Bureaucracy by another 10 %

You started off right but quickly took a dump of the deep end.