toldailytopic: Once a person is saved can they reject that salvation should they chan

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godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Grosnick Marowbe said:
You have a way with words, however, your words have, no way of resembling the, truth of Scripture!
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Refute the argument instead of attacking with ad hominem useless words.

Tell me why OSAS is true, but universalism is not. It is a valid point, so deal with it.
 
Doormat

Doormat

New member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
Have you even thought about the idea that, Christ
was telling that person, not to continue, in THAT
particular sin? Just a warning from Christ to stop
committing that, personally chosen sin?
glorydaz said:
Yep. And after much chastening, that particular act will no longer be a problem, but, rest assured, another area will be brought into the light.
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How many commandments are you trying to keep? How many commandments do Christians have to keep? List them. It must be a very long list, else what you've said cannot be true.
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
godrulz said:
It is a fact that Calvinism-like and Arminian-like views are polarized. I suspect most of the Church is not Calvinistic, though much of it is. Arminians/free will theists virtually all reject OSAS, while Calvinists/TULIP affirms POTS/OSAS-like.

Do you dispute that the majority of Christians are not Calvinists? The few free will theists who accept OSAS are a distinct minority and inconsistent with their views.

Regardless, majority/minority does not prove anything, so my case is based on cumulative biblical evidence.

MAD on TOL also sees that some were not OSAS (circ vs uncirc), so they get around it by saying the non-OSAS verses in Hebrews, etc. don't apply to Pauline believers. This is a loop hole, but bad theology. The other forced loop hole is to say that those who professed Christ, but no longer do so, were never saved. This is begging the question, illogical, and not being honest with the biblical text.
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The Bible speaks of the fact that, few will make it (narrow is the way, remember?)
 
Tehmill

Tehmill

New member
godrulz said:
Unbelief is a unique sin. The church in Acts and NT was far from perfect. This is a sanctification issue, not an apostasy/perseverance issue (dealt with in Hebrews, etc. where Jewish Christians were reverting back to Judaism and forfeiting their hope in Christ).

Jesus made the statement in present tense. It was true when He later made this statement that Judas was a betrayer. You are wrong, based on the context and grammar, to say he was chosen in this state or always in this state. You are proof texting to retain a wrong view, not exegeting in context.

Change your view, not the Bible.
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Nah, nah you are bending the truth to fit your doctrine, if He knew from the beginning that was when He chose him.

This is what Hebrews says
10v 9-10 Then He said Lo I am come to do Thy will O God, He taketh away the first that He may establish the second by the which will we are SANCTIFIED through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE FOR ALL.

vs14
For by one offering He hath PERFECTED FOREVER them that are sanctified.

Just read and believe...it says we are sanctified by the offering...not anything we do or fail to do...once for all.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
godrulz said:
No true person in love and married would ever change their mind and commit adultery and fall for someone else? OSAS logic is that they must never have been in love or married because reality changed over time.

Israel, Church, Church Age, Scripture does not support OSAS. It is a false teaching giving false assurance, not biblical security/assurance.
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We aren't talking about a man and wife (mere humans). We are talking about the Power of God to save and keep those who come to Him. Eternal life actually does mean ETERNAL, and any lack of trust in God and His ability to perform what He began in us means there is no justification...simply because it is lack of belief.

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

We are KEPT by the power of God, we don't KEEP ourselves. This the the assurance only a true believer can have. We don't doubt...we believe there is a place reserved for us in heaven.

1 Peter 1:4-6
To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
 
Doormat

Doormat

New member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
Pointless, to someone of your, lack of discernment! I will agree to that!
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I can read what you both posted.

Grosnick Marowbe said:
Have you even thought about the idea that, Christ
was telling that person, not to continue, in THAT
particular sin? Just a warning from Christ to stop
committing that, personally chosen sin?
glorydaz said:
Yep. And after much chastening, that particular act will no longer be a problem, but, rest assured, another area will be brought into the light.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

How many commandments are you trying to keep? How many commandments do Christians have to keep? List them. It must be a very long list, else what you've said cannot be true.
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
glorydaz said:
We aren't talking about a man and wife (mere humans). We are talking about the Power of God to save and keep those who come to Him. Eternal life actually does mean ETERNAL, and any lack of trust in God and His ability to perform what He began in us means there is no justification...simply because it is lack of belief.

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

We are KEPT by the power of God, we don't KEEP ourselves. This the the assurance only a true believer can have. We don't doubt...we believe there is a place reserved for us in heaven.

1 Peter 1:4-6
To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
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Wow!! That is truth at its finest!!
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
godrulz said:
'from the beginning' is an idiom that does not literally mean from the absolute beginning. Other verses show that he was called an apostle, chosen for Christ's inner circle, but near the beginning BECAME a betrayer and then later a son of perdition full of Satan (was not in the absolute beginning to creation, birth, calling for ministry).
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Judas was raised up (counted among the number) for the very purpose of betraying our Lord. Being in the inner circle does NOT mean Judas was saved. What you claim is that the Holy Spirit isn't able to create in us a clean heart and we do NOT pass from death into life. Sorry, Godrulz, you can never prove that Judas was saved just because he was counted among the number.
 
Doormat

Doormat

New member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
The Law was NEVER given to the gentile nations! The House of Israel were given the law!
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Then what sins or acts are you and Glorydaz talking about?

Grosnick Marowbe said:
Have you even thought about the idea that, Christ
was telling that person, not to continue, in THAT
particular sin? Just a warning from Christ to stop
committing that, personally chosen sin?
glorydaz said:
Yep. And after much chastening, that particular act will no longer be a problem, but, rest assured, another area will be brought into the light.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
All saved people will continue to commit sin, while in this fleshly body!
However, they are, positioned into the Body of Christ in the Spiritual sense, and
in that, Spiritual sense, they do not sin! Why? Because they are, in Christ, and
He is, in them!
 
IMJerusha

IMJerusha

New member
glorydaz said:
No, Judas was never saved, you can study all the verb tenses you want to but it will not change Judas into a believer. He was chosen to eat with them, but He never believed unto salvation. :nono:

John 6:64
But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
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Had Judas turned to Yeshua and asked for forgiveness, he would have received it but God knew Judas' choice before he made it. As Yeshua prayed to the Father about the twelve, He said, "None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled." Judas was chosen just as the others were and he was no different from the others. "This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written: 'I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.' "
 
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